SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

You can get the same tests from Bupa for £69, but it's obviously a lot of money for something that should become more routine in the next couple of months.

Picked this up from covid Long Haulers Slack group: there are many anti body tests available all looking for slightly different markers. Being positive in any of these tests is good news. Being negative could just mean you need to take the others to be sure it's not a false negative.

That could become costly. And probably why the general public are not being offered it and likely never will.
 
Picked this up from covid Long Haulers Slack group: there are many anti body tests available all looking for slightly different markers. Being positive in any of these tests is good news. Being negative could just mean you need to take the others to be sure it's not a false negative.

That could become costly. And probably why the general public are not being offered it and likely never will.

Yeah, the test isn't nearly accurate enough at the moment. Having a negative result which doesn't necessarily mean it's negative makes it kind of worthless if you're spending money on it. I am sure a test will eventually be developed which is nearer the 99.99% and at that point it will be rolled out en-masse.

I actually think this is one of the few things the government got right through the last few months. There was a clamour in the media for antibody testing and they held off saying they were testing the reliability of multiple different ones and rejected most. The one they are using isn't great but it was probably the right time to bite the bullet and start offering it to medical professionals.
 
You can get the same tests from Bupa for £69, but it's obviously a lot of money for something that should become more routine in the next couple of months.

£69 isn't too bad, as the one I was looking at was advertised for £99. But you're right it's way too expensive.

I'm hoping they're trying to implement these immunity passports before a nationwide roll out
 
20 deaths in England today, 1 in Wales. I expect Tuesday to be back in the 100s.
 
I imagine we'll see some new UK policy today or tomorrow as they seem to like doing it early in the week when the numbers are low.
 
£69 isn't too bad, as the one I was looking at was advertised for £99. But you're right it's way too expensive.

I'm hoping they're trying to implement these immunity passports before a nationwide roll out

I don’t think immunity passports will be a thing any time this year, if ever. We still don’t know if catching it once stops you catching it again.
 
What a sorry and shameless bunch they are...

'Government spokesman dismissed claims that Johnson was stalling appointment of the intelligence committee.'

'The spokesman dismissed claims that replacing the two-metre rule would be a mistake.'

'Robert Jenrick "still has PM's confidence".'

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Not claiming that the government isn't taking the virus crisis seriously, but is there any need for Matt Hancock to call out bingo numbers during the briefings?
 
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Cow dung and urine. Feck that I'd rather have Covid.
 
Regarding immunity, I believe there are longitudinal studies going on looking at re-infection, if any, antibody studies, to study a large population which might give us a better understanding of covid and to see if natural immunity is possible and sustainable against re-infection

From my understanding there's the WHO Solidarity II trial (which is pooling together antibody studies for which initial results according to WHO may be expect in a few months but study is meant to be for a year if not longer)

There's two in the UK that I know of
Longitudinal study of covid sequelae and immunity - https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04411147 - 900 participants but study completion date in 7 years!
Study by UCL online surveys but involving 50,000 participants - https://cls.ucl.ac.uk/ucls-longitudinal-studies-to-survey-thousands-about-impact-of-covid-19/

More information from literature regarding immunity here with me bolding with what I think are the important bits
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/immune-responses

Most persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 display an antibody response between day 10 and day 21 after infection. Detection in mild cases can take longer time (four weeks or more) and in a small number of cases antibodies (i.e., IgM, IgG) are not detected at all (at least during the studies’ time scale). Based on the currently available data, the IgM and IgG antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 develop between 6–15 days post disease onset . The median seroconversion time for total antibodies, IgM and then IgG were day-11, day-12 and day-14 post symptom onset, respectively. The presence of antibodies was detected in <40% among patients within 1 week from onset, and rapidly increased to 100% (total antibodies), 94.3% (IgM) and 79.8% (IgG) from day-15 after onset.

The longevity of the antibody response is still unknown, but it is known that antibodies to other coronaviruses wane over time (range: 12 – 52 weeks from the onset of symptoms) and homologous re-infections have been shown. SARS-CoV-2 IgM and IgG antibody levels may remain over the course of seven weeks or at least in 80% of the cases until day 49. In comparison, one in ten of SARS-CoV-1 infected patients have been shown to maintain IgG antibodies for two years. In addition, it could be important to detect nasal IgA antibodies, as the serum IgA antibodies were not raised, but IgA persisted in the nasal mucosa one year post-infection for seasonal coronavirus.

Longitudinal serological studies that follow patients’ immunity over an extended period of time would be required to study the duration of immunity .
Reinfections with all seasonal coronaviruses occur in nature, usually within three years.
 
Reading my local 'paper's website: it states that there's merely one new case in the area, and a single death in the country as a whole. But...they only tested around 2-and-a-half thousand people nationwide, 10 thousand under testing capacity. With misrepresentation like that, no bloody wonder many people believe this is all over now.
 
Reading my local 'paper's website: it states that there's merely one new case in the area, and a single death in the country as a whole. But...they only tested around 2-and-a-half thousand people nationwide, 10 thousand under testing capacity. With misrepresentation like that, no bloody wonder many people believe this is all over now.
Did they only test that few because only that many people needed tested though? If that’s the case it would still be representative of a decline.
 
I don’t think immunity passports will be a thing any time this year, if ever. We still don’t know if catching it once stops you catching it again.

Good point. Surely there's been some progress on the level of immunity you get from previous exposures though? It's been going around for about 6 months, so the people who caught it in January/February would give an indication?
 
My Antibody test has come back negative so don’t know whether to pleased or not. Been on the front line on ICU so I suppose my hand hygiene and FFP wearing has been good. At least 10 people I’ve worked with have been positive with no symptoms whatsoever. So who knows how many they passed it onto and when. And now only 15 deaths in the last 24 hours, that good although that will be higher tomorrow.
 
£69 isn't too bad, as the one I was looking at was advertised for £99. But you're right it's way too expensive.

I'm hoping they're trying to implement these immunity passports before a nationwide roll out

Immunity Passports would be a nightmare and we shouldn’t hope for them.
 
Good point. Surely there's been some progress on the level of immunity you get from previous exposures though? It's been going around for about 6 months, so the people who caught it in January/February would give an indication?

The thing is, only a very small % of the population have been infected. And you need to be certain they’ve been exposed twice or more to be sure that if they don’t catch the virus again that it’s down to them being immune. And not just them avoiding being exposed again.

If you had lots of examples of people catching it twice then you’d know for sure that catching it once doesn’t stop you catching it again. That hasn’t happened. Which is good. But it’s still early days. What happens if you get just 6 months immunity after being infected? Way too early to find out if that is happening and way to big a risk to create immune passports without knowing how long they’re valid for.
 
4 cases in Ireland today. 6 yesterday. Looks like mass barbecues a couple of weeks back have had no effect at all. Likewise kids hanging out together in parks/gardens. Makes me suspect the BLM stuff won’t have much effect either. This really doesn’t look like a virus that poses much of a threat outdoors. Puts all the fury about joggers daring to run near other people into perspective anyway.
 
Most if it was coming from fat fecks who couldn't run for 5 seconds and hate joggers anyway.
I don’t think that’s fair. Very little was known about this virus initially so people were rightly scared from being too close to anyone else, never mind joggers cyclists who would be giving off loads of sweat droplets. Hell a lot of joggers I know have disgusting habits of spitting and cleaning their nose out as they run.
 
I don’t think that’s fair. Very little was known about this virus initially so people were rightly scared from being too close to anyone else, never mind joggers cyclists who would be giving off loads of sweat droplets. Hell a lot of joggers I know have disgusting habits of spitting and cleaning their nose out as they run.

Ah I was only half joking. Still though jogging is litrerally one of the only ways people could exercise with the gyms closed and we know how much exercise helps with stuff like anxiety and depression, especially during these times. So although you may be right about some joggers spitting or whatever, you'd have to be a right bitter shite to begrudge someone for it unless they're seriously impeding your space, which I've rarely seen in my area anyway.
 
Today I was told by someone I trust not to make shit up that Hancock deliberately said “Daniel Rashford”. For a bet and a chuckle with his chums.

They heard it first hand. Not a dramatic person. Didn’t jazz it up. Just a matter of fact anecdote in passing.
 
Glad to see a definitive end date for shielding. My main worry now is people still flout the rules as the weather grows colder into the winter months and shielding resumes. Was meant to start my new position at work today so lucky I work for a decent company that understand I'll be back as soon as I'm allowed bsck.
 
Today I was told by someone I trust not to make shit up that Hancock deliberately said “Daniel Rashford”. For a bet and a chuckle with his chums.

They heard it first hand. Not a dramatic person. Didn’t jazz it up. Just a matter of fact anecdote in passing.
Should be called Smallcock. W4nker.
 
Glad to see a definitive end date for shielding. My main worry now is people still flout the rules as the weather grows colder into the winter months and shielding resumes. Was meant to start my new position at work today so lucky I work for a decent company that understand I'll be back as soon as I'm allowed bsck.

Interesting how keen Hancock was to stress that shielding was being 'paused'. Jenny Harries also careful with her words.

Things could change by 1st August, let alone the winter months.
 
I hope employers go easy on those who have been shielding. Sadly, some won't.

I work remotely anyway thankfully and have no need to visit the office to do my job. My colleagues aren't expecting to see me in person any sooner than I see fit.
 
Interesting how keen Hancock was to stress that shielding was being 'paused'. Jenny Harries also careful with her words.

Things could change by 1st August, let alone the winter months.

Yeah I took notice of the word paused. It'll certainly be the first thing reintroduced you'd expect if there was any rise.

I don't expect numbers to rise too much before August 1st. We seem to be a few weeks behind most of mainland Europe, and they haven't seen much of a spike despite relaxing measures so I'd expect our numbers to keep coming down. Maybe wishful thinking on my part though.
 
Yeah I took notice of the word paused. It'll certainly be the first thing reintroduced you'd expect if there was any rise.

I don't expect numbers to rise too much before August 1st. We seem to be a few weeks behind most of mainland Europe, and they haven't seen much of a spike despite relaxing measures so I'd expect our numbers to keep coming down. Maybe wishful thinking on my part though.

Yeah, by setting August 1st for shielders, that gives them a buffer to assess what impact the easing of measures from the first week of July has had.
 
So much being said about the reduction (wrongly imo) of social distancing to 1m - but will people go back to the pubs and restaurants? First week yes...after that?
 
Don't think I'll bother getting the antibody test then. I was ill in late Feb but it could be very low rate now and there's still some inaccuracy and issues with other coronaviruses being detected.
 
Apologies if already posted...

“BEIJING (Reuters) - Levels of an antibody found in recovered COVID-19 patients fell sharply in 2-3 months after infection for both symptomatic and asymptomatic patients, according to a Chinese study, raising questions about the length of any immunity against the novel coronavirus.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tients-decline-quickly-research-idUSKBN23T1CJ

I may be wrong and one of the doctors on here can correct me but can’t this also be indicative that they’ve not been in contact with the virus recently rather than them no longer having the ability to produce antibodies?

The mechanism as I understand it is that the immune system essentially learns how to produce antibodies, rather than antibodies are produced and then always maintained at a certain level. So if their antibodies are lower, it’s not a problem and the fact they are present at all is a positive as if they were exposed to the virus again, their immune system should kick in and start producing the antibodies to fight the virus.
 
I may be wrong and one of the doctors on here can correct me but can’t this also be indicative that they’ve not been in contact with the virus recently rather than them no longer having the ability to produce antibodies?

The mechanism as I understand it is that the immune system essentially learns how to produce antibodies, rather than antibodies are produced and then always maintained at a certain level. So if their antibodies are lower, it’s not a problem and the fact they are present at all is a positive as if they were exposed to the virus again, their immune system should kick in and start producing the antibodies to fight the virus.
I read it more as a cartoon that antibody tests may be a waste of money, and may not even tell you what proportion of the population have had it.

It means that even the most reliable antibody tests we've heard of so far - like the Abbott labs one - may miss old covid cases. It seemingly puts the timeline when you can realistically test for IcG antibodies to a window between 4 weeks (earlier and it may miss cases) and 12 weeks post-infection.

In terms of impact on immunity, as the article says, they don't really know. They weren't looking for the type of cells that can memorise the virus, only for those that actively fight it.
 
Just watching a report this morning about the 1 meter social distancing. I get that 2 meters would make it basically impossible for pubs, but I don’t see how it’s possible for everyone to truly be 1 meter apart either. Unless the table is 1 meter in length, then you’re always going to be less than 1 meter away from the person opposite you. How are you going to get even 3 or 4 people, 1 meter apart, around a table.
 
Just watching a report this morning about the 1 meter social distancing. I get that 2 meters would make it basically impossible for pubs, but I don’t see how it’s possible for everyone to truly be 1 meter apart either. Unless the table is 1 meter in length, then you’re always going to be less than 1 meter away from the person opposite you. How are you going to get even 3 or 4 people, 1 meter apart, around a table.

Get bigger tables. Sounds flippant, but that's the reality of it.
 
So has anyone seen an detailed analysis on this weird Covid / meat packing plant clusters forming? I've seen things talking about shared accommodation and cramped working conditions but the prevalence of big clusters at meat packing plants seems really odd to me. That they seem to have exceptionally high rates of the disease and with very strong levels of fatality seems to be unusual.

Could it be something has transferred into the meat itself? or has some product like soy been corrupted and found it's way into the food processing plant? or is this just a weird statistical anomaly?