Scores die in Israeli air strikes
- Thread starter IhabX7
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
That second claimed came out of the Vatican (of all places) last week when one of the cardinals opened his gob.
Hehe...you hate Jews, don't you? No wonder that dodgy Bosniak found a true friend. I reckon (your) freedom of speech is helped a bit in this case for the people who moderate this forum.
http://www.metimes.com/Politics/2009/01/03/israeli_arabs_protest_against_gaza_offensive/afp/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/world/2007/alan_johnston/default.stm
You are not functioning very well at near combustion conditions. Since you're familiar with the region what would you feel safer doing:
1. Waving a Palestinian flag in Israel.
2. Waving a Fatah flag in Gaza.
Freedom of expression...
I goggled eejits and it came up with this image
Reminded me instantly on the images from Elwira Bauer's 1936 children's book "Trau keinem Fuchs auf grüner Heid und keinem Jüd auf seinem Eid" (Trust no fox on green meadow and no Jew upon his oath). Well done sammsky.
Remember there are a number of moderators on this forum, not all Muslim. We discuss any comment we feel might not be acceptable, and the appropriate action to taken. If you think I am being blinkered in my moderating due to my religion, and you're not satisfied with the way this forum is moderated you have the freedom to leave.
WeWonItTwoTimes has basically spouted similar rubbish in more than one post. I never infracted him, or wrote a PM asking him to cool down - Sammky was even man enough to apologise.
Perfect Moderating I would say.
One wonders who he would fair on the same pitch as Pantisil.
However, events were not consistent. Presumably you want to check reality against reporting of reality.
Or probably not, given the rubbish you tend to spout.
So you have no basis to compare British media bias against other countries' bias. Thought so.
I'm aware that your "everyone should have nukes" fantasy is based on an exaggerated idea of fairness, empty rhetoric, and a total misunderstanding of geopolitics.
Not reality, international relations, or game theory.
You should lose sleep over it. It's what distinguishes you from them.
It's only a mystery to people who can't admit they were wrong.Now that's something we can all agree on...
...and then went on to write the above. Who are those hated eejits? if the forum tolerates this kind of racist material then there really shouldn't be any banning/warnings to anyone.
The funny thing is that Sevilla's sponsors (888.com) are a betting firm owned by an Israeli. Both go along well with Kanoute's religious beliefs.
These stupid incidents are blown way out of proportions. Still loved the Mossad agent claims on Egyptian TV after the Pantsil flag waving...
I goggled eejits and it came up with this image
Reminded me instantly on the images from Elwira Bauer's 1936 children's book "Trau keinem Fuchs auf grüner Heid und keinem Jüd auf seinem Eid" (Trust no fox on green meadow and no Jew upon his oath). Well done sammsky.
So let me be clear what you disengenuious fools are trying to say here:
You look up the word 'eejit' on google and it shows the picture of a childens book by Roald Dhall. And for some bizarre reason you think that picture reminds of you of a book I've never heard. And that book says jews should not be trusted.
So just what are you trying to imply here? That you have brain dysfunction of the highest order that skits from one topic to another and with no logical flow - Is that it?
Or is it that whenever someone speaks something that is abit too close to the truth so that all the carefully constructed propaganda built up over the years are exposed for what it is, you immediately revert to paranoia - Is that it?
Or are you in fact trying to imply that I have made a racist statement?!
OK, lets just check the dictionary on this one shall we?
eejit: An idiot. Retrieved from http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eejit
eejit: nitwit, nincompoop, moron or thicko http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eejit
eejit(context, Irish English, pejorative) An idiot. Imitative of a Hiberno English pronunciation of idiot http://www.allwords.com/word-eejit.html
Nice try but very very poorly executed. Both of you need to get over yourselves, stop playing this 'victim card' and see if you can handle a proper debate on the morality of what is going on here. If you can't (and you can't) don't make yourselves look foolish with your amateurish diversion strategies.
I goggled eejits and it came up with this image
Reminded me instantly on the images from Elwira Bauer's 1936 children's book "Trau keinem Fuchs auf grüner Heid und keinem Jüd auf seinem Eid" (Trust no fox on green meadow and no Jew upon his oath). Well done sammsky.
FFS. That book is known as The Twits.
you really are such a fool, aren't you. You're one of those ignorant right wing fools. I've just got a feeling for it.
Want to hear something interesting? You know the Jewish Centre in Colaba, Mumbai, the one that got caught up in the terrible and horrific tragedies recently? Well the Rabbi of that centre was called Gabriel. Tragically, he was one of the victims of Mumbai's tragedy.
I lived in Bombay/Mumbai for 3 years and during that time Rabbi Gabriel and I became great friends. Every year, Rabbi Gabriel would personally invite me, a Muslim, to attend his prayer hall during Rosh Hashanah and Pesach. I would always go and stand in the front row beside him during prayer. In return, Rabbi Gabriel would come with me to my mosque during Eid and stand by me during prayer. It was our attempt to become closer as human beings, to bring some better personal empathy and understanding between us and to try and be an example to others as we both had visible positions of responsibility.
I think of Gabriel alot these days and mourn his loss terribly - he was a great man and bettered me in many ways. May he rest in peace.
Lets be clear. As I wrote in my first post, I have a HUGE issue with the people of Israel.* There policies are despicable, lacking of any shred of moral legality and are the actions of the worst kind of humanity that we know of today. I have NO issues with the Jewish faith, have many Jewish friends and respect and admire the traditions upon which they have built their culture.
Now, are you capable of a debate or will you play your pathetic victim card again?
BTW - who is the 'dodgy Bosniak' that you are referring to? And what kind of phrase is that exactly? How much further are you going to dig this hole that you seem to sinking into?
* By 'people of Israel' I mean to say Israel is a democracy and the no 1 policy agenda for voters and political parties alike is the matter of self determination and nationhood and national security. And so, the people of Isreal and its government are one and the same thing in this instance.
As opposed to, for example. in the UK when Blair took us to war in Iraq in direct opposition of the wishes of the vast majority of the voters. In that instance, the 'people of the UK' and its 'government' could argue that there were two separate forces. I hope that clears the matter.
Just saw on channel 4 news that earlier in the week a family were killed even though israel had said it was safe to seek refuge in the house but later on heavily bombarded it. Oh and 257 children killed with a further 1080 wounded!
Of course this isn't GENOICIDE this is self defence.
Of course this isn't GENOICIDE this is self defence.
People or Politicians?
meanwhile back in the city, the self styled 'holyland red' is enjoying a day off work.
Rightly pointed out, i had a problem with that part myself.
It was as if he had passed judgement on all 7 million people and treats them as one guilty mass body of humanity.
It is certainly evident that some are losing persepctive in this thread, and not isolated flashpoints neither.
Finally, someone with some selfrespect and honesty.
There, MUST, be a God out there!
Sam, you are a welcome breath of fresh air, on this crap-tower of a thread.
My vote is for something just short of 'Genocide'.
The phrase that keeps coming to mind, throughout this conflict is, 'You get what you give.'. From both side's perspective.
It's the sabbath in Israel today.
Thought your respect for the Jewish faith might have had you knowing this.
Not losing perspective - just exposing a deeply held....view
It's the sabbath in Israel today.
Thought your respect for the Jewish faith might have had you knowing this.
I thought the day of sabbath was on a Saturday. I think you'll find that Friday is actually the day of Jumu'ah, the holy day in the week for Islam. Perhaps that shows your disrespect for Islam?
Regardless, That is EXACTLY what I meant.
Whilst 'HolyRed' and is compatriots prepare for 'sabbath' so they continue on the side to bomb the crap out of defenceless Palestinians and UN humanitarian aid workers.
How nice it must be to be able to prepare for sabath when the Palestinians die during nearby. At least there is a symmetry about it so that something I guess.
It's too early for sabbath, the sun has not gone down yet.
Sammsky you need to relax a bit. The sabbath provides a welcome break, you should make good use of it.
Sammsky you need to relax a bit. The sabbath provides a welcome break, you should make good use of it.
You show yourself here for the idiot and racist that you are, and that's even without considering the obligatory "I have many Jewish friends" comment.
its difficult to. I care. Anyway, my relaxing and none of the nonsense on this board will change the tragedy that is unfolding as we speak
I thank you for your wishes and intent. I just wish those in the middle east could also enjoy the rest that each of us enjoys.
OK. I'm done for now.
yep. must be. Fool. Enjoy your day off.
WeWonItTwoTimes said the same thing. I wonder why you never pointed out his error?
I quote
I have to agree that the Israeli people are responsible for the actions taken by their government. Israel is a democracy, and the politicians we have running the country are those that we elected. I have no problems with the orders the IDF has gotten in the last two weeks though, and I'm also OK with people of sammsky's nature hating the "people of Israel". I'm sure he wasn't a big fan prior to Israel's latest act of self-defense.
Let me have a wild guess here...Little Sam, who has many Jewish friends, doesn't hate the >1 million Israeli people who are...Muslim
Let me have a wild guess here...Little Sam, who has many Jewish friends, doesn't hate the >1 million Israeli people who are...Muslim
Do you suppose that the Israelis in the citys immediately in range rest with contented smiles upon their faces as the Qassams were flying?
It is surely no joy for either population, although as you gaze at the crisis it seems that one half of the horizon is blinded to you.
action - reaction.
Finally, got that one out of you.... knew it wouldn't take too long.
'Holyland', enjoy your life while you can.
I can sleep at night. I have no idea how you can and would hate to have your conscience the day everything creeps up on you. And one day it will, probably when you least expect it; Conrad describes it well in Heart of Darkness : 'the horror, the horror'.
Its a shame you will never be like the man Rabbi Gabriel was.
I'm done with you.
You can't mean that! You come across to be a nice guy. How would you feel if it was Israeli children being blown to pieces on THAT scale. You may say "I know all about war so I don't need you telling me..." but would you really be happy to live in the conditions that Gazans do? Would sit back and let a foreign force control what you can and can't receive or would you fight back? For a second forget about the political and religious background. Hamas may be terrorists but it should tell you something about how dire the situation of Gazans is for them to be elected (you can't believe the absolute shite "wewonittwotimes" was spouting). You may think that your soldiers are killing a few hundred Hamas "terrorists" but those kids who've witnessed what no-one should ever have to in their live times are the new breed of Hamas members and they're going to be far more hardline than this set. Israel has inadvertently increased the number of future hamas members and could you really blame those children if they want payback after losing their whole families?
The point being or at least this is how it comes across, that you don't care. Which IMO simply isn't good enough on your part.
This here is one such example as i see it >>
Investigations that come to nothing should not be seen as acceptable by Israel's allies in particular, accountability and perhaps compensation if that is workable.
It's all somehow inevitable innit? The never ending conflict..
Taking land from the heart of a nation and giving it to people who feel that this is their original/rightful home..There's probably no right and wrong in this situation, but they (UN, and all that created this) have taken the risk and I'm sure they were all aware of what is going to happen.
Taking land from the heart of a nation and giving it to people who feel that this is their original/rightful home..There's probably no right and wrong in this situation, but they (UN, and all that created this) have taken the risk and I'm sure they were all aware of what is going to happen.
Nick, Thanks for posting with empathy and reason.
I guess my point of view on this is the historical one. This current attack is just the latest sorry chapter in a 60+ year old injustice on the people of Palestine. I'm sure you know the history, but if you don't, I encourage you to find out. Never has there been a better situation for the phrase "one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist".
I have been to Palestine and seen what its like, I'm as well read as I need to be on the history and have debated this subject often and at length with people who know far more about it than me. They all come to the same end point: Solve the Palestine issue and all this 'global terrorism' nonsense goes away. Yes, it really is as simple as that.
One cannot ignore the history or origins of this tragedy. It is integral to every single action that takes place. And until those root causes are resolved, the subsequent reparations distributed and some kind of justice made, it will go on and on and on. Maybe that day will come sooner than we think when the ME runs out of oil and so it is no longer in the interests of the West to have a fully financed mafioso in the region.
I cant/don't have sympathy for the Israeli cause here. They are involved in an immoral subjugation of an historic and distinguished people and its land. Any man will fight for his home if it is taken by another through force and outside of the law. And so it will go on until one day, some time, he regains his home. It cannot end any other way.
So is that a two-state solution you propose?
Cheers
It is a fair comparison. Chechnyans don't consider themselves Russian either, they consider themselves under an endless occupation, they don't want Russians on their land, and they've paid a higher price than the Palestinians. No-one cares because Russia is conceived of as a powerful country that is allowed to pull that kind of shit.
When you say 'never belonged to them', that's factually wrong, historical and archaeological records clearly show a Hebrew/Jewish presence on the land over several thousand years, including long periods of self-government. But whether you consider such ancient history relevant to current claims or not (I don't), it makes no sense to make out that modern Israelis have no right to the land. The state's sixty years old - in what way does a fourth-generation Israeli child have less right to the land than a Palestinian kid? You might as well tell modern-day Australians to go back to Britain or Ireland.
What's your answer? Should Israelis with Israeli parents and grandparents go back and reclaim Polish houses? Should they go back to Iraq, where in 1950, before the pogroms, the population of Baghdad was nearly a quarter Jewish? Or should they just submit to 'rightful' Arab rule - a rule that would, rest assured, see 'genocide', 'massacre', 'ethnic cleansing', 'modern-day Nazis' and the like restored to their proper usage within days?
The situation of Arab Israelis is indeed incomparable to that of blacks in apartheid South Africa, but not in the way you're suggesting. We've been through it too many times on here, apartheid no, discrimination yes, same as minorities in many countries, vote, healthcare, college education, Arab on supreme court, economically far better off than Arabs in many Arab states, economically worse off than most Jewish Israelis, ethnic/religious character of state problematic, but see situation of Druze and Bedouins for lack of simple state racism, etc. etc.
As for Palestine, I've been to the West Bank too, it's got its problems, the settlements are a disgrace and should be removed, the Israelis should be much fairer about water, and yes it should be given full statehood with the appropriate security guarantees to Israel. Economically it's doing rather well at the moment, mainly due to trade with Israel. There are far worse places to live than the West Bank.
Gaza is a different matter, but the Israelis pulled out of Gaza three years ago. It's bizarre to talk about hostile relations between two separate countries as 'apartheid'. They could also have improved their standard of living by not electing a government that responded to the Israeli concession of territory by repeatedly shelling them and continuing to vow their total obliteration.
Have you been to Grozny by the way, and talked to people there? The city has been decimated to a fraction of its former size, its population virtually halved. In the meantime, thousands still remain in bombed-out shells, without electricity or water, eight years on from the war.
It's not. For that, see the conflicts I mentioned above, in which hundreds of thousands have been killed in a matter of a few years, in a context of no existential threat to the agressors. That's considerably more than have been killed on both sides in over 60 years of the Arab-Israeli conflict, including at least 2 wars declared on israel by the Arab states.
It's scant consolation to bereaved families, but the fact remains, the Arab-Israeli conflict is small beer compared to a lot of other conflicts round the world.
Israel has done many brutal things and made many stupid mistakes, but it doesn't pull shit like that on purpose. Not because they're nice guys, but because the bad publicity is a major problem.
Your disgust for the people of Israel is itself disgusting. To group together for opprobrium an entire nation, including little kids who don't know shit, old women who were chased out of Middle Eastern countries in pogroms, Peace Now activists who've fought for years for a Palestinian state, immigrant Ethiopian Falashas trying to build a new life for themselves, or just ordinary Joes going about their business like you find in any other country, countries guilty of far worse crimes... disgusting mate.
It's good that you support oppressed populations - though I don't see you weighing in on here about how the populations of the countries responsible disgust you and make your blood boil. None of your reasons for privileging the Arab-Israeli conflict for special outrage are convincing. An atrocity is an atrocity, it should be judged according to its scale and its manner, not extrinsic factors like whether world nations treat it in a balanced way. It's not Israel's fault that extremists round the world care far more about Muslims killed by Jews than Muslims killed by Russians, Serbs, Chinese, Hindus or other Muslims. It's not Israel's fault if other states are biased in their favour (or have a more nuanced approach to blame than you prescribe). Besides, the world did sod all about Rwanda, gave carte blanche to Russia in Chechnya and China in Tibet, and has been toothless and equivocal about the actual genocide in Darfur.
As for the dipossession, look around the world. How many Greeks are left in what is now the Turkish part of Cyprus, and vice versa? How many Hereros in Southwest Africa? How many Japanese in Manchuria? How many ethnic Germans in Czecholsovakia and Poland? Oh, and how many Jews in Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Egypt, Iraq...? A lot less than there are Arabs in Israel and the occupied territories. Have the Palestinians been fecked on, are they still being fecked on, and should they get a state? Absolutely. Do Israeli actions justify their demonisation above far worse acts by other states? Of course not. I don't think you even know why you're combusting about this issue above all others - though the clue lies, I suspect, somewhere in your descriptions of Israeli 'sneering' and 'arrogance'. Have a look at yourself.
60 years? "Palestinians" didn't exist before 1967.