Scores die in Israeli air strikes

[LizardKing]

I walk around Manchester and all I see is students with purple dreadlocks telling me I should help stop the massacre of Palestinians.

I think I'm going to go on a war of my own if these people don't let me get to one fecking lecture without having to wade through their bullshit.

 

[atom smasher]

I walk around Manchester and all I see is students with purple dreadlocks telling me I should help stop the massacre of Palestinians.

I think I'm going to go on a war of my own if these people don't let me get to one fecking lecture without having to wade through their bullshit.

There's not much we can do to stop it. The fact that we're arguing on an internet forum about this is pretty much hopeless in itself.

We're just sharing views and opinions on something that in some way or another affects us all.

Mind you if they come up to me in the street I'd tell them to feck right off.

 

[LizardKing]

I might really read up on the Israel/Hamas history etc and actually question them about it, just to make them uncomfortable and see them squirm. I would bet a lot of money that they know absolutely feck all about what's going on over there.

Or I could just kick a girl in the cnut to show I'm not joking when I say I don't want to hear their bullshit.

 

[atom smasher]

I might really read up on the Israel/Hamas history etc and actually question them about it, just to make them uncomfortable and see them squirm. I would bet a lot of money that they know absolutely feck all about what's going on over there.

Or I could just kick a girl in the cnut to show I'm not joking when I say I don't want to hear their bullshit.

This is not a thread for laughter but

 

[Nucks]

If you believe that then you're a fecking tool. (which you have established to show before too)

I'll have you know one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.



This is the main reason that Hamas came into power. The way they go about reaching those goals is wrong, but this doesn't mean Israel is right.

They are both wrong and there's not much distinction in how they do tings. yet one is a terrorist organization and the other a sovereign country with a legal government.

P.S. Ignoring the facts that Israel have violated Human Rights won't make them go away.

When was the last time there were intentional government sanctioned murders of Palestinian civilians?

Israel doesn't target civilians.

Hamas does.

The definition of a terrorist is someone who uses terror.

Hamas uses martyrs and rockets to terrorize and try to kill as many Israelis as possible.

Israel uses guided bombs to kill militants and avoid civilians as much as possible.

Here is something ironic. One of the largest, perhaps THE largest publisher of 9/11 conspiracy literature and whatnot is Willis Carto.

Willis Carto is a holocaust denier.

Two people in this thread who are making some of the most despicable and outlandish claims against Israel believe in 9/11 conspiracies.

Coincidence? You be the judge, after all coincidence is the foundation of any good conspiracy.

I'm beginning to think there needs to be a better screening process on these forums.

Sammsky has posted some of the most underhanded, insidious, disingenuous hateful shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

 

[atom smasher]

When was the last time there were intentional government sanctioned murders of Palestinian civilians?

Israel doesn't target civilians.

Hamas does.

The definition of a terrorist is someone who uses terror.

Hamas uses martyrs and rockets to terrorize and try to kill as many Israelis as possible.

Israel uses guided bombs to kill militants and avoid civilians as much as possible.

Here is something ironic. One of the largest, perhaps THE largest publisher of 9/11 conspiracy literature and whatnot is Willis Carto.

Willis Carto is a holocaust denier.

Two people in this thread who are making some of the most despicable and outlandish claims against Israel believe in 9/11 conspiracies.

Coincidence? You be the judge, after all coincidence is the foundation of any good conspiracy.

I'm beginning to think there needs to be a better screening process on these forums.

Sammsky has posted some of the most underhanded, insidious, disingenuous hateful shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

I will edit this post later and give you a reply for the rest as I am going to sleep now.

I just wanted to say that I do not need no literature to tell me what I can see for myself and that I do not know who this person is or what he says. Not that I care.

You too shouldn't care what other people say and start making your own mind up for a change.

If you think you are better than me I accept that as your opinion as long as you accept that you are not as mine.

 

[Red-Wedge]

I was following nucks and atom in their exchange of ideas about the Middle East and I don't know by what twist of logics all of a sudden 9/11 appeared.
Ok, the world is small and everything is related and the butterly in China and everything, but in this case what's 9/11 got to do with who's right or wrong in this Gaza war?

Come to think of it, there's something interesting to point out. That is that any judgement on the Middle East is rarely rational and argumented. Mostly one's opinion is based on a pre-builit packet, such as that you're rightleaning/proAmerican/proIsrael/anti-abortion and all the conservative paraphernalia. The opposite on the other side.
It's very difficult to see a reasoned exachange of ideas without resorting to entrenching in one's whole ideological Weltanschauung, lobbying slurs at the other entrenched guy.

Sad.

 

[Nucks]

So it's like that now. This makes me think you are uniformed on the matter and are arguing a case based on your thoughts.

Unless it's common for you to constantly change what you say.

Civilians die in war. There is no law saying that if any civilians die you are committing a war crime. The delineating point would be the INTENTIONAL versus INCIDENTAL killing of civilians.

I haven't changed my point of view. Israel is not violating any international law.

You bring up White Phosphorous and see that it was mentioned in a paper that it is illegal to use. Except it ISN'T illegal to use. Like all the other conspiracy feckjobs you grab onto a sensationalist title taken out of context and then base your entire argument around something that is WRONG.

White Phosphorous known as WP is ILLEGAL to use against BUILT UP CIVILIAN AREAS. It is NOT illegal to use WP as an ILLUMINATING agent, or an agent to create COVER through the generation of SMOKE. Every modern army in the world that I am aware of uses WP for exactly these purposes as well as others.

Yes Civilians will inevitably die to WP, see the bit about INTENTIONAL versus INCIDENTAL killing of civilians. However no military in the world will endanger the lives of its citizens or soldiers because there is a possibility that there might be A civilian in the field about to be hit by WP.

So, Israel HAS been using WP in Palestine, in a NON-ILLEGAL manner. It has been using it to create smoke screens for advancing soldiers through OPEN TERRAIN.

Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons
Protocol III
Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons.
Geneva, 10 October 1980
Article 1
Definitions

For the purpose of this Protocol:

1. Incendiary weapon" means any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat, or combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target. (a) Incendiary weapons can take the form of, for example, flame throwers, fougasses, shells, rockets, grenades, mines, bombs and other containers of incendiary substances.
(b) Incendiary weapons do not include:
(i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such as illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems;
(ii) Munitions designed to combine penetration, blast or fragmentation effects with an additional incendiary effect, such as armour-piercing projectiles, fragmentation shells, explosive bombs and similar combined-effects munitions in which the incendiary effect is not specifically designed to cause burn injury to persons, but to be used against military objectives, such as armoured vehicles, aircraft and installations or facilities.
2. Concentration of civilians" means any concentration of civilians, be it permanent or temporary, such as in inhabited parts of cities, or inhabited towns or villages, or as in camps or columns of refugees or evacuees, or groups of nomads.
3. Military objective" means, so far as objects are concerned, any object which by its nature, location, purpose or use makes an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.
4. Civilian objects" are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 3.
5. Feasible precautions" are those precautions which are practicable or practically possible taking into account all circumstances ruling at the time, including humanitarian and military considerations.

Article 2
Protection of civilians and civilian objects

1. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.
2. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by air-delivered incendiary weapons.
3. It is further prohibited to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by means of incendiary weapons other than air-delivered incendiary weapons, except when such military objective is clearly separated from the concentration of civilians and all feasible precautions are taken with a view to limiting the incendiary effects to the military objective and to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.
4. It is prohibited to make forests or other kinds of plant cover the object of attack by incendiary weapons except when such natural elements are used to cover, conceal or camouflage combatants or other military objectives, or are themselves military objectives.

Incidentally, no major military power has signed this convention and therefore these conventions are only law in an imaginary land. Probably with gnomes and fairies.

 

[atom smasher]

And as for coincidences, well there are sooooooo many fishy things about 9/11. One of them being that a budget of initially $3 million (after much pressure it was raised to $14 million) was given to investigate the death of thousands while $50 million were given to investigate the Colombia space shuttle crash and $67 million to investigate Clinton's affair. It also took 14 months for the commission to set up while the other two within days. Almost as if they didn't want it investigated.

 

[atom smasher]

I was following nucks and atom in their exchange of ideas about the Middle East and I don't know by what twist of logics all of a sudden 9/11 appeared.
Ok, the world is small and everything is related and the butterly in China and everything, but in this case what's 9/11 got to do with who's right or wrong in this Gaza war?

Come to think of it, there's something interesting to point out. That is that any judgement on the Middle East is rarely rational and argumented. Mostly one's opinion is based on a pre-builit packet, such as that you're rightleaning/proAmerican/proIsrael/anti-abortion and all the conservative paraphernalia. The opposite on the other side.
It's very difficult to see a reasoned exachange of ideas without resorting to entrenching in one's whole ideological Weltanschauung, lobbying slurs at the other entrenched guy.

Sad.

Ideology may have something to do with it. At least on the tools side...

night.

 

[Nucks]

I was following nucks and atom in their exchange of ideas about the Middle East and I don't know by what twist of logics all of a sudden 9/11 appeared.
Ok, the world is small and everything is related and the butterly in China and everything, but in this case what's 9/11 got to do with who's right or wrong in this Gaza war?

Come to think of it, there's something interesting to point out. That is that any judgement on the Middle East is rarely rational and argumented. Mostly one's opinion is based on a pre-builit packet, such as that you're rightleaning/proAmerican/proIsrael/anti-abortion and all the conservative paraphernalia. The opposite on the other side.
It's very difficult to see a reasoned exachange of ideas without resorting to entrenching in one's whole ideological Weltanschauung, lobbying slurs at the other entrenched guy.

Sad.

People who believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy are lunatics.

Sammsky is a rather disgusting poster here who posts long, ridiculous reams, takes some sort of stance as moral authority and yet says some of the most despicable untrue, unfounded things about Israel and Jews.

He believes 9/11 was a government conspiracy.

This discussion has been going on for awhile and was pretty moderate until Sammsky joined it. Now we have another.

I also disagree with your assertion that it is rarely rational. I see plenty of rational posters in this thread. I also see a few completely irrational posters. My opinion on Israel and Palestine is formed based on careful observation of what both sides are actually doing.

Some of the people who have posted the most ridiculous shit in this thread are not judging Israel by what it is doing, but by what they THINK it WANTS to do when its actions indicate otherwise. In essence they think there is some sort of hidden conspiracy movement within the Israeli government that wants to exterminate the Palestinian people and deny any solution.

Notice the trend? They don't base their arguments or opinions on observable events, current or historical, rather what they assume the agenda of some malicious back room force is.

Next, they grossly exaggerate what is happening in Palestine, calling it massacre and saying civilians are being targeted intentionally, or refusing to differentiate between the intentional killing of civilians and the incidental killing of civilians. There IS a huge difference. Or they claim that Israel is MORE evil because they happened to kill MORE civilians completely ignoring circumstance and intent because you know accidentally killing 2 pedestrians with your car because the road was icy is MORE evil than deliberately running someone down and backing up over their skull.

 

[Nucks]

Ideology may have something to do with it. At least on the tools side...

night.

And ignorance and racism on the other?

 

[Mozza]

The Palestinian civilians are also not innocent in this. They elected a TERRORIST organization to power whose EXPRESS PURPOSE IS TO ERADICATE ISRAEL.

The Israli civilians are also not innocent in this. They elected a Government organization to power whose EXPRESS PURPOSE IS TO oppress Palestinians.

You've actually legitimised terrorism

 

[Red-Wedge]

Notice the trend? They don't base their arguments or opinions on observable events, current or historical, rather what they assume the agenda of some malicious back room force is.

Yes, I do notice indeed.
That was my point, sort of.

 

[Nucks]

The Israli civilians are also not innocent in this. They elected a Government organization to power whose EXPRESS PURPOSE IS TO oppress Palestinians.

You've actually legitimised terrorism

When Palestinians put down their rockets and suicide vests and remove any pretense on which Israel can legally refuse to talks, then they have a case.

Until then Israel is right to see that historically Hamas and other groups only use brokered cease fires as a chance to rebuild and prepare for their next offensive.

When the stipulations in the first paragraph occur, and IF Israel refuses to talk, then Israel will be in the wrong.

However I know this will never happen. Palestinian people belonging to organizations like Hamas will always seek to destroy Israel and never agree to a two state solution. They will do all in their power to cause violence and drive a permanent wedge between Palestinians who want peace, and Israel.

All you want Mozza, is a respite for Hamas to continue it's attacks on Israel because that is all a cease fire will do. Give them time to regroup and start a new round of attacks.

This isn't ideology. This isn't politics. It's fact. It's historical. It is the way it is.

 

[Red-Wedge]

I’d like to add a reflection on the general Israel/Palestine issue and on how people express their opinions about it. I think someone’s suggestion (was it Fitzjames’?) that if you are not 100% on one side then you’re by definition 100% on the other side describes perfectly well any debate on the Middle East, but I’ll try to express a balanced opinion to the best of my judgement.

I think this issue is well explained by the well known metaphor of the tree and the forest.
If you look at the tree, you see what’s going on in Gaza these days, that is that Israel seems to be going well over the top in their reaction to the Hamas’ launching of rockets.
I recognize Israel has the right and the duty to exist in the first place, and to defend the lives of its citizens and – let’s face it – how many of us would accept any neighbouring nation lobbying stones on our houses – let alone rockets? Also I understand that it’s difficult to calibrate an appropriate reaction when weapons start talking, and it’s only silly to think Israel should let the Hamas rockets go unchallenged or, to make things ‘even’, to challenge them by sending similar rockets back. Yet I’m sure even the most enthusiast supporters of the Israeli cause and the Israelis on this forum themselves feel a sense of disgust at the pictures of all those civilian casualties the IDF have caused.
The suspect that Israel is, let’s put it this way, definitely not targeting civilians on purpose, but not even putting too much effort in avoiding them in order to sort of teach the Gazan electorate a lesson is too strong to dismiss it as anti-Jewish rant. If not for plain human reasons, I think Israel should understand that in so doing they are actually creating an ampler reserve of fighters rather then reducing them.

But if we look at the forest, on the other hand, we see this.

I don’t know if the Evian conference has been quoted before here but I think this website could be an interesting read for the youngest and the less informed among us in order for them to understand the rationale that caused the urge for a Jewish state in the first place and the general attitude of Jewish people to international opinions and pressure.
Understanding why, how, where Israel came to be, how Europe and what we call the 'Western world', with all the values we like bragging about and our self-righteousness, has a lot to answer for, doesn’t mean justifying everything Israel does, but it could definitely help put things in a different perspective. I find it appalling when I read people calling Israel a ‘rogue state’ (not on this forum, but I’ve seen it called that).

There’s no need to depict Israel as a rogue state to be justified in calling for a ceasefire, or in being offended by Israel’s refusal to let humanitarian aid enter the Gaza strip. I’m sure even the Israelis on this forum aren’t really too proud of what their country is doing as we’re writing.
But attacking Israel and its very existence is heinous and shameful.

 

[Frosty]

And as for coincidences, well there are sooooooo many fishy things about 9/11. One of them being that a budget of initially $3 million (after much pressure it was raised to $14 million) was given to investigate the death of thousands while $50 million were given to investigate the Colombia space shuttle crash and $67 million to investigate Clinton's affair. It also took 14 months for the commission to set up while the other two within days. Almost as if they didn't want it investigated.

Christ alive - there was nothing fishy about it, just party politics.

It has all been done to death here :https://www.redcafe.net/f13/9-11-a-163911/

 

[Mozza]

When Palestinians put down their rockets and suicide vests and remove any pretense on which Israel can legally refuse to talks, then they have a case.

Until then Israel is right to see that historically Hamas and other groups only use brokered cease fires as a chance to rebuild and prepare for their next offensive.

When the stipulations in the first paragraph occur, and IF Israel refuses to talk, then Israel will be in the wrong.

However I know this will never happen. Palestinian people belonging to organizations like Hamas will always seek to destroy Israel and never agree to a two state solution. They will do all in their power to cause violence and drive a permanent wedge between Palestinians who want peace, and Israel.

All you want Mozza, is a respite for Hamas to continue it's attacks on Israel because that is all a cease fire will do. Give them time to regroup and start a new round of attacks.

This isn't ideology. This isn't politics. It's fact. It's historical. It is the way it is.

Legally refuse talks? There is no law to prevent Israel from talking now and there is no law which can compel them to talk in the future if the weapons were put down.

Hamas have said they'll agree to a 2 state solution

You didn't address the point I made regarding your legitimising of terrorism

 

[sammsky1]

I'm educated.

errr, I think I would beg to differ on this.... Instaed of making one line conclusions about peoples opinions, let see you actually demonstrate some of this please.

As my father would say 'Dont tell people you're funny. Tell a joke that makes people laugh.'

Where are you from, don't tell me its the US? Go figure!

 

[sammsky1]

Sammsky has posted some of the most underhanded, insidious, disingenuous hateful shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

Well I'll take that as a huge compliment!

sorry, of course you are right: To take an Anti Israel position is being Anti Semitic. Yep!

By the way, did you have all those words in your vernacular or were you being abit of a thesaurus meister?

 

[sammsky1]

I was following nucks and atom in their exchange of ideas about the Middle East and I don't know by what twist of logics all of a sudden 9/11 appeared.
Ok, the world is small and everything is related and the butterly in China and everything, but in this case what's 9/11 got to do with who's right or wrong in this Gaza war?

Well spotted Red Wedge. Nucks is deploying the often used 'diversion strategy' that Israel itself is an expert of, but many Israel sympathisers on this forum pathetic at.

I guess they deserve credit of sorts because they keep trying ... but then again its deep rooted into the culture and so they can't help him. Very devious.

Thanks for making the point.

 

[Red-Wedge]

Thanks Spams, but with all due respect my comment wasn’t levelled at Nucks. Neither at atom, for that matter.
Was more of a general attitude that you don't only find here.
I expressed my view on the conflict in a boring longish post a little further up.

 

[Plechazunga]

I’d like to add a reflection on the general Israel/Palestine issue and on how people express their opinions about it. I think someone’s suggestion (was it Fitzjames’?) that if you are not 100% on one side then you’re by definition 100% on the other side describes perfectly well any debate on the Middle East, but I’ll try to express a balanced opinion to the best of my judgement.

I think this issue is well explained by the well known metaphor of the tree and the forest.
If you look at the tree, you see what’s going on in Gaza these days, that is that Israel seems to be going well over the top in their reaction to the Hamas’ launching of rockets.
I recognize Israel has the right and the duty to exist in the first place, and to defend the lives of its citizens and – let’s face it – how many of us would accept any neighbouring nation lobbying stones on our houses – let alone rockets? Also I understand that it’s difficult to calibrate an appropriate reaction when weapons start talking, and it’s only silly to think Israel should let the Hamas rockets go unchallenged or, to make things ‘even’, to challenge them by sending similar rockets back. Yet I’m sure even the most enthusiast supporters of the Israeli cause and the Israelis on this forum themselves feel a sense of disgust at the pictures of all those civilian casualties the IDF have caused.
The suspect that Israel is, let’s put it this way, definitely not targeting civilians on purpose, but not even putting too much effort in avoiding them in order to sort of teach the Gazan electorate a lesson is too strong to dismiss it as anti-Jewish rant. If not for plain human reasons, I think Israel should understand that in so doing they are actually creating an ampler reserve of fighters rather then reducing them.

But if we look at the forest, on the other hand, we see this.

I don’t know if the Evian conference has been quoted before here but I think this website could be an interesting read for the youngest and the less informed among us in order for them to understand the rationale that caused the urge for a Jewish state in the first place and the general attitude of Jewish people to international opinions and pressure.
Understanding why, how, where Israel came to be, how Europe and what we call the 'Western world', with all the values we like bragging about and our self-righteousness, has a lot to answer for, doesn’t mean justifying everything Israel does, but it could definitely help put things in a different perspective. I find it appalling when I read people calling Israel a ‘rogue state’ (not on this forum, but I’ve seen it called that).

There’s no need to depict Israel as a rogue state to be justified in calling for a ceasefire, or in being offended by Israel’s refusal to let humanitarian aid enter the Gaza strip. I’m sure even the Israelis on this forum aren’t really too proud of what their country is doing as we’re writing.
But attacking Israel and its very existence is heinous and shameful.

Very good post. I'd also add that you can't understand Zionism only through the lens of the holocaust. Mass immigration to Palestine started long before that, mostly from the Russian empire, where well over 100,000 people were killed in pogroms. Also, large numbers of Jews fled or emigrated from other middle eastern countries after the foundation - before the big recent Russian migration a slight majority of Israeli Jews were of non-European origin.

The suspect that Israel is, let’s put it this way, definitely not targeting civilians on purpose, but not even putting too much effort in avoiding them in order to sort of teach the Gazan electorate a lesson is too strong to dismiss it as anti-Jewish rant. If not for plain human reasons, I think Israel should understand that in so doing they are actually creating an ampler reserve of fighters rather then reducing them.

If that's true, it is quite simply state terrorism. I don't believe that's what they're doing - not least because I think they know collective punishment will only strengthen popular opinion in Hamas' favour. I think what is happening is inevitable if you're at war with a militia that fights out of city centres and public buildings. If they are doing what you suggest, that's not excusable by any political or historical circumstances.

 

[Red-Wedge]

If they are doing what you suggest, that's not excusable by any political or historical circumstances.

As a matter of fact I said there was a suspect that could be the case.
Needless to say, I hope I'm wrong and you're right - which probably is.

 

[ooeat0meoo]

I was following nucks and atom in their exchange of ideas about the Middle East and I don't know by what twist of logics all of a sudden 9/11 appeared.
Ok, the world is small and everything is related and the butterly in China and everything, but in this case what's 9/11 got to do with who's right or wrong in this Gaza war?

Come to think of it, there's something interesting to point out. That is that any judgement on the Middle East is rarely rational and argumented. Mostly one's opinion is based on a pre-builit packet, such as that you're rightleaning/proAmerican/proIsrael/anti-abortion and all the conservative paraphernalia. The opposite on the other side.
It's very difficult to see a reasoned exachange of ideas without resorting to entrenching in one's whole ideological Weltanschauung, lobbying slurs at the other entrenched guy.

Sad.

feck you, Wedge!!!

 

[atom smasher]

And ignorance and racism on the other?

Show me where I have been ignorant or racist?

 

[ooeat0meoo]

Show me where I have been ignorant or racist?

You need to stop it with the 9.11 stuff. It's just silly, really. You have been hoodwinked by a group of people that have been able to make money on a story that they've made up.


Qualifies as ignorant.


Sorry.

 

[atom smasher]

Christ alive - there was nothing fishy about it, just party politics.

It has all been done to death here :https://www.redcafe.net/f13/9-11-a-163911/

I would have liked to have taken part in that discussion.

And as for party politics, you think any party wouldn't jump at the chance of according a massive budget to investigate human death? They sure would look good for that once in four years voting process if they did.

Also I see in the thread that PNAC is not discussed at all and that is KEY to 9/11. I am sure most of the people discussing the thread don't have a clue about PNAC.

 

[atom smasher]

You need to stop it with the 9.11 stuff. It's just silly, really. You been hoodwinked by a group of people that have been able to make money on a story that they've made up.


Qualifies as ignorant.


Sorry.

I'm sorry my friend but I have not been fed anything by no one. I for one have done my own research into the matter and I have found many suspicious aspects into 9/11.

 

[Mozza]

If that's true, it is quite simply state terrorism. I don't believe that's what they're doing - not least because I think they know collective punishment will only strengthen popular opinion in Hamas' favour. I think what is happening is inevitable if you're at war with a militia that fights out of city centres and public buildings. If they are doing what you suggest, that's not excusable by any political or historical circumstances.

Shimon Peres - Israel's aim, he said, was to provide a strong blow to the people of Gaza so that they would lose their appetite for shooting at Israel.

Link

 

[Red-Wedge]

feck you, Wedge!!!

Lovely.
I feel I'm part of the community now.

 

[ralphie88]

Two Points for you Nucks

1. These 'Human Rights' that you claim shouldn't exist in "war time" were created after the holocaust to stop such a thing happening again. They ARE meant to apply in war time. Some of the crimes that were created specifically for the Nuremberg trials are being perpetuated by the Israelis.

2.Just heard on FiveLive that the UN has asked for an investigation into war crimes commited by Israeli forces. Specifically the alleged deliberate targeting of a school.

 

[atom smasher]

Shimon Peres - Israel's aim, he said, was to provide a strong blow to the people of Gaza so that they would lose their appetite for shooting at Israel.

Link

Nothing more blatant than that then. You should tell Shimon Peres to stop shelling the people of Gaza because it's not them shooting Israel, it's Hamas!

 

[sammsky1]

1. These 'Human Rights' that you claim shouldn't exist in "war time" were created after the holocaust to stop such a thing happening again. They ARE meant to apply in war time. Some of the crimes that were created specifically for the Nuremberg trials are being perpetuated by the Israelis.

2.Just heard on FiveLive that the UN has asked for an investigation into war crimes commited by Israeli forces. Specifically the alleged deliberate targeting of a school.

At last a voice of experience and reason comes to the fore. Thanks for that ralphie.

 

[ooeat0meoo]

Lovely.
I feel I'm part of the community now.

You're welcome Red Wedge, now with that important task out of the way, time to get serious.



As my friend Sam has pointed out the biblical quagmire that is the middle-eastern divide, it has inspired me to bring light to the new American perspective. The ascension of the new administration to the White House, is that of a people that will not use religious ideology to commit untold destruction and crimes against humanity. The very definition of ‘Law’ and ‘Justice’ had a day in the sun, this past week.


With the confirmation hearings of Eric Holder, arose anew perspective of right and wrong or even if I dare ‘clarity’ in political positioning. I present the new Attorney General without the sack of ‘I don’t knows’ and ‘I plead to 5th by executive privilege’.







The point is… it is looking like the new administration will not use religion as a shield and sword to commit international crimes of passion. We in America are turning the page and returning to a time that respects the ‘Law’, I hope.


But what is so fecking mind-boggling is that very last bit of Sam’s video… the story of what is supposed to be several millions of years ago, give or take a week or two. ~ Please, let’s step towards reality for a second.


We all now know that the Garden of Eden is a fiery-tale, yes it is a tale that tells of much that is humanity… nevertheless, since the times that many of us northern European descendents said, ‘What the feck… These priests are out of their feckin’ minds if they expect us to keep sending our sons to slaughter in the name of the Lord. This Holy War shit needs to stop!’, we have evolved, despite this example in Israel.

And how long ago was that in ‘real-time’, not storybook bible time?

That would be 400-500 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation

In short, Hamas and Israel have had there last ditch effort to bolster support to their cause, the blood bath from both sides will need to stop. And maybe, just maybe both sides can see that butchering each other’s children doesn’t have anything to do with God..


The grown ups are taking control of the United States of America. You can expect changes in the way the US supports this never ending blender policy of slaughtering each other and crimes in the name of God.


*I hope that made some sense to somebody... I'm coming down with something, and I'm not completely withit.

 

[Amir]

Nothing more blatant than that then. You should tell Shimon Peres to stop shelling the people of Gaza because it's not them shooting Israel, it's Hamas!

Shimon Peres is president of Israel - a position of great respect, but little substance. He's not actually part of any decision proccess, although he is kept in the loop. I wouldn't use one line he said (He most likely meant anyone in Gaza firing rockets, rather than anyone living in Gaza) and turn it into the great dark intentions of Israel.

If Israel's intentions were just to strike a blow to the people of Gaza, we would have simply settled for the airforce attacks, and prevented the deaths of several soldiers and the injuries suffered by dozens since the ground invasion.

 

[Kaos]

Again with the American troops.

And the actual number of deaths has nothing to do with it. Plus I disagree with the Hezbollah argument but mine and your views are nearly polar opposites. I respect what your saying and you entitled to your view of course, I just flatly disagree with pretty much all of it.

Fair enough, I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Mihajlovic]

Seriously Bob, what's up with all the swearing in your posts?!

 

[atom smasher]

Shimon Peres is president of Israel - a position of great respect, but little substance. He's not actually part of any decision proccess, although he is kept in the loop. I wouldn't use one line he said (He most likely meant anyone in Gaza firing rockets, rather than anyone living in Gaza) and turn it into the great dark intentions of Israel.

If Israel's intentions were just to strike a blow to the people of Gaza, we would have simply settled for the airforce attacks, and prevented the deaths of several soldiers and the injuries suffered by dozens since the ground invasion.

I guess it's true then that the Israeli media are focusing on Isreal's casualties in this war and is forgetting the hundreds of men women and children brutally murdered by an army with full disregard for human life. An army that uses illegal substances that inflict a slow and painful death. An army that doesn't care about any laws or rights. An army that lets children sign the rockets before they are sent to kill. An army that causes more terror than the terrorist themselves.

 

[LizardKing]

I'm sorry my friend but I have not been fed anything by no one. I for one have done my own research into the matter and I have found many suspicious aspects into 9/11.

Let me guess; a few grainy youtube videos?