Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Sorry if this sounds too rude, and 'it's easy to patronize from your couch' etc, but I was thinking: isn’t it the point of any conflict to inflict more casualties on your enemy than they do on you?

I believe we should dedicated more energies in trying to understand who started it all. Once the can is open and the worms are out and war is raging, it’s kind of missing the whole point to see the one who inflicts more casualties as the bad boy.

By this standard the UK and the USA combined (868,300 deaths) would be 10 times as nasty as Nazi Germany (7,233,000 deaths).
 
Not at all LK. I'd advise you just to read only one thing. PNAC. And then you'll start to think of how it is possible that a draft like that can be accomplished to 100% in such a short time. In the draft itself it says, "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor." A.K.A. 9/11

Published September 2000. After that there's a lot more other things that are very suspicious. Like for example the Pentagon plane or the one in Pennsylvania or the stupid evidence found on the Hijackers. etc etc.

You don't need to look at people telling you this. You just need to look at it yourself and use your brain.
 
Red-Wedge said:
Sorry if this sounds too rude, and 'it's easy to patronize from your couch' etc, but I was thinking: isn’t it the point of any conflict to inflict more casualties on your enemy than they do on you?

I believe we should dedicated more energies in trying to understand who started it all. Once the can is open and the worms are out and war is raging, it’s kind of missing the whole point to see the one who inflicts more casualties as the bad boy.

By this standard the UK and the USA combined (868,300 deaths) would be 10 times as nasty as Nazi Germany (7,233,000 deaths).
Click to expand...

Well the ones who started this was the UN.
 
atom smasher said:
I guess it's true then that the Israeli media are focusing on Isreal's casualties in this war and is forgetting the hundreds of men women and children brutally murdered by an army with full disregard for human life. An army that uses illegal substances that inflict a slow and painful death. An army that doesn't care about any laws or rights. An army that lets children sign the rockets before they are sent to kill. An army that causes more terror than the terrorist themselves. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

Israeli media is very much looking at both sides. Maybe not 50/50, you wouldn't expect that, but if you think it's one sided, you're awfully wrong. In fact, some of the channels have received criticism for not being 'patriotic' enough. Just yesterday one of the TV channels had a discussion about the possible use of illegal weapons, and also infact helped in the evacuation of a Palestenian doctor working in Israel whose home in the Gaza strip was bombed and several of his daughters were killed and injured.

As for the rest, I cannot respond to the same cr*p a hundred times. I've done so enough in this thread. Like I said, if we just wanted to kill as many possible, we would have bombed them from the sky. Plenty more dead, and zero IDF soldiers dead. Easy. But we didn't do that, did we?

As for this photo, I've no idea what it is. It is hebrew and english on those missiles, but I seriously doubt we have children signing them before they are used. I just don't know.
Click to expand...
 
Amir said:
Israeli media is very much looking at both sides. Maybe not 50/50, you wouldn't expect that, but if you think it's one sided, you're awfully wrong. In fact, some of the channels have received criticism for not being 'patriotic' enough. Just yesterday one of the TV channels had a discussion about the possible use of illegal weapons, and also infact helped in the evacuation of a Palestenian doctor working in Israel whose home in the Gaza strip was bombed and several of his daughters were killed and injured.

As for the rest, I cannot respond to the same cr*p a hundred times. I've done so enough in this thread. Like I said, if we just wanted to kill as many possible, we would have bombed them from the sky. Plenty more dead, and zero IDF soldiers dead. Easy. But we didn't do that, did we?

As for this photo, I've no idea what it is. It is hebrew and english on those missiles, but I seriously doubt we have children signing them before they are used. I just don't know.
Click to expand...

Here's the story behind that picture.

http://adloyada.typepad.com/adloyada/2006/07/how_to_demonize.html

Nice try, atom.
 
Nice try for what. Those are rockets that were sent to Lebanon. Nasrrallah is written on the rocket on the left. Propaganda on Children :rolleyes:
 
atom smasher said:
Nice try for what. Those are rockets that were sent to Lebanon. Nasrrallah is written on the rocket on the left. Propaganda on Children :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Propaganda on a few children form who knows what village at the front line. Wow, what am I supposed to do now, post pictures of Palestinian kids who share their views on Jews on public TV, or pictures of five year olds with the full suicide-bomb gear strapped on them??
 
You would be surprised how many "five year old's with full suicide-bomb gear strapped on them" will emerge from this war. How many orphans will fight for the destruction of Israel with hate in their hearts. How many childless mothers and fathers will willingly end their life taking as many Israelis as possible with them. You would be surprised...

The sad thing is that both are victims of their governments yet they are the ones suffering the consequences.
 
atom smasher said:
You would be surprised how many "five year old's with full suicide-bomb gear strapped on them" will emerge from this war. How many orphans will fight for the destruction of Israel with hate in their hearts. How many childless mothers and fathers will willingly end their life taking as many Israelis as possible with them. You would be surprised...

The sad thing is that both are victims of their governments yet they are the ones suffering the consequences.
Click to expand...

Well that all lies in the responsibility of those who educate them, doesnt it? Hundred thousand of Serbs, Croats and Muslims died in Bosnia and Croatia and still today no one is teaching their children to hate and despise 'their neighbour' and to wait for the next opportunity to kill them! Instead they try to teach them to be aware of the history but also how to build bridges and try to find a common language and a platform for coexistence and understanding. There is simply no need for Palestinian parents to teach their three years olds that Jews are apes and pigs and deserve to die. Give me a break!
 
atom smasher said:
Not at all LK. I'd advise you just to read only one thing. PNAC. And then you'll start to think of how it is possible that a draft like that can be accomplished to 100% in such a short time. In the draft itself it says, "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor." A.K.A. 9/11

Published September 2000. After that there's a lot more other things that are very suspicious. Like for example the Pentagon plane or the one in Pennsylvania or the stupid evidence found on the Hijackers. etc etc.

You don't need to look at people telling you this. You just need to look at it yourself and use your brain.
Click to expand...

Dear God when will these 9/11 nutjobs pack it in.

You really think that an operation on that large a scale could be put into action without one person either refusing to participate and leak information, or leak information after the event.

I don't even know why im bothering...
 
They do not need no education to see who is making their lives hell. To see who is responsible for the deaths of their fathers mothers brothers sisters.
 
FortBoyard said:
Dear God when will these 9/11 nutjobs pack it in.

You really think that an operation on that large a scale could be put into action without one person either refusing to participate and leak information, or leak information after the event.

I don't even know why im bothering...
Click to expand...

How large is the operation exactly?
 
atom smasher said:
They do not need no education to see who is making their lives hell. To see who is responsible for the deaths of their fathers mothers brothers sisters.
Click to expand...

Don't be ridiculous. Following your logic the Jews would have every right to hate and wish to exterminate every single German on this planet after what they have been through.
 
atom smasher said:
How large is the operation exactly?
Click to expand...

Erm let me think.... Blowing up a section of the Pentagon and Collapsing the WTC. While lying to the public about who did it.

that'd be a pretty large operation right there.
 
Mihajlovic said:
Don't be ridiculous. Following your logic the Jews would have every right to hate and wish to exterminate every single German on this planet after what they have been through.
Click to expand...

What's to say that those who suffered don't or didn't?

FortBoyard said:
Erm let me think.... Blowing up a section of the Pentagon and Collapsing the WTC. While lying to the public about who did it.

that'd be a pretty large operation right there.
Click to expand...

The pentagon surprisingly was hit on it's fortified side and the alleged plane VANISHED. So it easily could have been a rocket fired from the helicopter which was reported to fly into the pentagon minutes before the attack. It is odd how it was denied that the side which the plane hit had anti aircraft defence and then months later accepted. Also all video footage of the area was confiscated and nothing is released to date except for five images. It was denied that any of the cameras in the pentagon captured the attack. Have you seen the alleged path that the plane took before allegedly hitting the pentagon? It is near impossible to perform by an experienced pilot let alone by a hijacker who failed to complete a single flying course. Do you also know that the pilot that was flying the alleged plane worked for the Pentagon and had taken part in the drafting of anti-terrorist strategies before retiring to take a job at American Airlines. Also no bodies or luggage was found.

Don't you think this all is a little odd?
 
Lizard King said:
I think people who believe the US government would kill thousands of it's own citizens as an excuse to go to war are a little odd.

Also, when planes hit reinforced concrete they turn to dust:
Click to expand...


1. There isn't a hole on both side of that reinforced concrete. (like the pentagon)

2. There is nothing left of the plane (an engine was found)

3. That plane has fighter jet engines (three of them) therefore reaching much much much much higher speeds

Nearly all the goals set by the US were only made possible to be achieved by the 9/11 attacks.
 
If this turns into another 9/11 debate the admins will lock it so I kindly suggest you stop because I enjoy reading the contributions in this thread, as scary as some of them are.
 
FortBoyard said:
Dear God when will these 9/11 nutjobs pack it in.

You really think that an operation on that large a scale could be put into action without one person either refusing to participate and leak information, or leak information after the event.

I don't even know why im bothering...
Click to expand...

I always find that funny as well. Government can't even keep the roads in good condition how in the hell does anyone think the gov't is that smart and that sophisticated as to actully pull off something like 9/11. No to mention (this is for LABOB) this was a George Bush administration. Unless of course the planning was done by Bill Clintion. If either could pull this off they'd be the smartest POTUS's we've had by a long way. Quite funny really, if it wasn't so sad.
 
esmufc09 said:
If this turns into another 9/11 debate the admins will lock it so I kindly suggest you stop because I enjoy reading the contributions in this thread, as scary as some of them are.
Click to expand...

Good point.

So it appears a truce is in the works. Are we putting this problem on pause? Or will it start up again in a couple months?





Of course it will. Plus I know I skimmed over a couple posts but where's the vitriol against the Lebanese involvment?
 
Mihajlovic said:
Seriously Bob, what's up with all the swearing in your posts?!
Click to expand...

You're right... I should tone it down.

_____________________________

And 'atom smasher'...

You're two and a half years too late with that photo of the small Israeli child fingerpainting the stockpile.



For those that hadn't been around 2 1/2 years ago for the conversation on Atom's find, it was when Israel flattened 1/2 of Lebanan with artillary.
 
Cali Red said:
I always find that funny as well. Government can't even keep the roads in good condition how in the hell does anyone think the gov't is that smart and that sophisticated as to actully pull off something like 9/11. No to mention (this is for LABOB) this was a George Bush administration. Unless of course the planning was done by Bill Clintion. If either could pull this off they'd be the smartest POTUS's we've had by a long way. Quite funny really, if it wasn't so sad.
Click to expand...



Damn Straight!!!


George Bush and his people couldn't sort out the Sunday morning word jumble from the comics section, each week. Nevermind hatch a plan to take down the Twin Towers.



*See that Miha... got through it without a single 'feck'.;)
 
ooeat0meoo said:
You're right... I should tone it down.

_____________________________

And 'atom smasher'...

You're two and a half years too late with that photo of the small Israeli child fingerpainting the stockpile.



For those that hadn't been around 2 1/2 years ago for the conversation on Atom's find, it was when Israel flattened 1/2 of Lebanan with artillary.
Click to expand...

Yes I daid say that it was from the Lebanon time. I was speaking about the army.
 
Mozza said:
Shimon Peres - Israel's aim, he said, was to provide a strong blow to the people of Gaza so that they would lose their appetite for shooting at Israel.

Link
Click to expand...

I doubt that's what he meant, it's indirect speech not a quote. If he'd meant 'people' as in civilians he wouldn't have said they were shooting at Israel.

It's quite clear, if the aim is to deliberately cause civilian deaths and injuries in order to terrorise the population, that's a war crime. So even if it were true, Peres is an old hand, he'd be highly unlikely to state it that baldly. And he knows well enough that after sixty years of them battering the Palestinians that battering them some more isn't going to make them stop fighting.
 
The Lebanese massacre was equally as disgraceful but lets stay on topic, too many diversions it seems lately.

Out of curiosity, what exactly are Israel's demands if a ceasefire is to be put through?
 
I don't know what their demands are but I do hope that someone does pay for all the civilian deaths in Gaza.
 
WeWonItTwoTimes said:
Hamas has paid a heavy price for causing all the civilian deaths in Gaza, job done.
Click to expand...

As far as I recall, Hamas wernt the ones firing rockets and white phosporous at their own mosques, universities and UN 'safe havens' :wenger:

Im waiting for your Iraq was to blame for 9/11 excuse :lol:
 
ralphie88 said:
1. These 'Human Rights' that you claim shouldn't exist in "war time" were created after the holocaust to stop such a thing happening again. They ARE meant to apply in war time. Some of the crimes that were created specifically for the Nuremberg trials are being perpetuated by the Israelis.

2.Just heard on FiveLive that the UN has asked for an investigation into war crimes commited by Israeli forces. Specifically the alleged deliberate targeting of a school.
Click to expand...

War crimes are victors justice it could be said. It certainly benefits those in ascendancy to create a system that prevents anything that might rock that boat. It certainly looks that way when you consider we did things that we tried and convicted the Germans of.

I've also never said human rights shouldn't exist in a time of war. I have said that in a time of war, be humane when possible, and ruthless when necessary. I believe I've said that a couple times in this thread in different ways.

The point is, there is a difference between the deliberate targeting of civilians and the incidental killing of civilians. On one hand you are trying to kill civvies, on the other they die as a result of legitimate military operation.

If there are enemy combatants in a school when they attack it. It is fair game. If there are munitions in the school. It is fair game.

At this point a cease fire benefits no one but Hamas.

If we can come to the conclusion that this is indeed a war, then by rights Israel should press this home until Hamas is a shell of its former self, with its infrastructure and leadership smashed.

I don't want to hear about disproportionate responses. It is the most absurd concept I have ever heard and it is completely contrary to EVERYTHING you hope to accomplish in armed conflict.
 
sammsky1 said:
:lol: Well I'll take that as a huge compliment!

sorry, of course you are right: To take an Anti Israel position is being Anti Semitic. Yep!

By the way, did you have all those words in your vernacular or were you being abit of a thesaurus meister? :wenger:
Click to expand...

In my vernacular? Rofl, I think you mean something else. Maybe you need a dictionary/thesaurus? I'll give you a hint, it starts with a V and ends with a Y.
 
RedKaos said:
As far as I recall, Hamas wernt the ones firing rockets and white phosporous at their own mosques, universities and UN 'safe havens' :wenger:

Im waiting for your Iraq was to blame for 9/11 excuse :lol:
Click to expand...

Just so you know, while there is an international charter against the use of WP against civilians in heavily populated civilian areas...

No Major Military Power On The Planet Earth Has Signed This Protocol

Just so we are clear, Israel as far as I know has also NOT signed this charter. However that is all completely irrelevant since Israel did not use WP against the locations you indicated. They used it in screening operations across open ground and possibly for some illumination.
 
Nucks said:
Just so you know, while there is an international charter against the use of WP against civilians in heavily populated civilian areas...

No Major Military Power On The Planet Earth Has Signed This Protocol

Just so we are clear, Israel as far as I know has also NOT signed this charter. However that is all completely irrelevant since Israel did not use WP against the locations you indicated. They used it in screening operations across open ground and possibly for some illumination.
Click to expand...

Oh it's good to have you here. I have always wanted to be in the presence of an Israeli commander :wenger:



defenetly for illumination of children
 
atom smasher said:
Oh it's good to have you here. I have always wanted to be in the presence of an Israeli commander :wenger:



defenetly for illumination of children
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen what WP does to people? Sorry but that child was not killed by WP.

WP turns you into an extremely burnt piece of toast. It reduces you to a cinder.
 
Nucks said:
Have you ever seen what WP does to people? Sorry but that child was not killed by WP.

WP turns you into an extremely burnt piece of toast. It reduces you to a cinder.
Click to expand...

Israel haven't come out yet to comment on the WP and you already claim to know what they used it for. Do you actually believe the bullshit you say.

That kid was saved. This one wasn't so lucky.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.