Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK

I feel the society is hypocritical in this instance.

They cared so much about one case but turns a blind eye on many injustices surrounding their daily life.

You all care for her one life yet made no qualms about isis killing thousands od people, which she took part in indirectly.

Why cant we tell her to feck off? What made her so special? Why dont we fought equally for her victims? Why is this one girl gets a preferential treatment? Even when she spat at your face and tells you she doesnt even feel remorse? Does her life worth so much more that you wanna waste taxpayer money on special treatnent for her while there are other people who needs care more than her? Do you extend the same ferocity towards other wartorn human being? Or was it because she's British?
 
2mufc0 said:
I get it, your argument is emotional, no point taking this discussion further.
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My argument was there would be any absolutely no fallout for citizens with foreign parents, as you had suggested, other than 'don't do terrorism.'
 
2mufc0 said:
I get it, your argument is emotional, no point taking this discussion further.
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I don't think so. Many people think those who choose to make an enemy of the country should not be afford the protections it provides. Labelling it emotional is a lazy way of avoiding the discussion.
 
2mufc0 said:
Well the judge said he could do it as she is of Bangladeshi descent and can claim citizenship there. What a great message that sends out to all the British citizens who have parents who were born abroad.
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That’s what rubs me up too. The message seems to be that if you’re British of foreign ethnicity and you're a good citizen, you’re one of us. But if you're a feck up, then you’re a foreign piece of shit that can feck off.

I don’t care what happens to her in the slightest. And, considering she’s not repentant even verbally, bringing her back means she’ll probably spent her days trying to radicalise other inmates and cost the taxpayer a pretty penny over the next 50 years. But feck me that’s the worst message to be sending to minority groups of this country and such a great propaganda tool for for those who want to radicalise them. “Why care about people that will never see you as one of their own anyway?”


11101 said:
I don't think so. Many people think those who choose to make an enemy of the country should not be afford the protections it provides. Labelling it emotional is a lazy way of avoiding the discussion.
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Does that apply equally to everyone or just brown people?
 
11101 said:
I don't think so. Many people think those who choose to make an enemy of the country should not be afford the protections it provides. Labelling it emotional is a lazy way of avoiding the discussion.
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It's not, I've been trying to have a discussion about the implications of it all, all he's been saying is she's a terrorist and should be left for dead, that's an emotional argument. We have terrorism laws here, she's British so should be tried by them, otherwise tried in the country she committed the crimes - but given the situation in Syria that isn't happening.
 
Sky1981 said:
I feel the society is hypocritical in this instance.

They cared so much about one case but turns a blind eye on many injustices surrounding their daily life.

You all care for her one life yet made no qualms about isis killing thousands od people, which she took part in indirectly.
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That's not exactly true, is it?
Sky1981 said:
Why cant we tell her to feck off? What made her so special? Why dont we fought equally for her victims? Why is this one girl gets a preferential treatment? Even when she spat at your face and tells you she doesnt even feel remorse? Does her life worth so much more that you wanna waste taxpayer money on special treatnent for her while there are other people who needs care more than her? Do you extend the same ferocity towards other wartorn human being? Or was it because she's British?
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Where to? Afaik the Kurds want to get rid of foreign Jihadis, understandably so.
MadMike said:
That’s what rubs me up too. The message seems to be that if you’re British of foreign ethnicity and you're a good citizen, you’re one of us. But if you're a feck up, then you’re a foreign piece of shit that can feck off.
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Yes, that seems to be the underlying logic. Happens in all kinds of variations in self-proclaimed liberal societies.
 
Sky1981 said:
I feel the society is hypocritical in this instance.

They cared so much about one case but turns a blind eye on many injustices surrounding their daily life.

You all care for her one life yet made no qualms about isis killing thousands od people, which she took part in indirectly.

Why cant we tell her to feck off? What made her so special? Why dont we fought equally for her victims? Why is this one girl gets a preferential treatment? Even when she spat at your face and tells you she doesnt even feel remorse? Does her life worth so much more that you wanna waste taxpayer money on special treatnent for her while there are other people who needs care more than her? Do you extend the same ferocity towards other wartorn human being? Or was it because she's British?
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I find the general sentiment of your post to be misguided and without logic, but I find the bolder bit to be utterly bizarre. Isis share a platform with an ideology like the Nazis in that they are universally despised and their crimes have been widely condemned and talked about. Very odd post.
 
11101 said:
I don't think so. Many people think those who choose to make an enemy of the country should not be afford the protections it provides. Labelling it emotional is a lazy way of avoiding the discussion.
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If she has made an enemy of her home nation then doesn't that give us the legal right to drone her tent in the refugee camp? I'm sure that would quickly nip this thing in the bud.
 
Sky1981 said:
I feel the society is hypocritical in this instance.

They cared so much about one case but turns a blind eye on many injustices surrounding their daily life.

You all care for her one life yet made no qualms about isis killing thousands od people, which she took part in indirectly.

Why cant we tell her to feck off? What made her so special? Why dont we fought equally for her victims? Why is this one girl gets a preferential treatment? Even when she spat at your face and tells you she doesnt even feel remorse? Does her life worth so much more that you wanna waste taxpayer money on special treatnent for her while there are other people who needs care more than her? Do you extend the same ferocity towards other wartorn human being? Or was it because she's British?
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Because, funnily enough, we're supposed to be held to a higher moral standard than IS. A democratic society, the same one that we keep travelling around the world trying to instill on other nations, is one of fair law and order. The right to a fair trial.

Just because you have a moral objection to someone and emotionally are compromised to the point where you hate them - and frankly I don't blame anyone who hates her and others who have joined IS - doesn't mean that those same laws we uphold as fundamentals of our democracy cease to exist.
 
2mufc0 said:
It's not, I've been trying to have a discussion about the implications of it all, all he's been saying is she's a terrorist and should be left for dead, that's an emotional argument. We have terrorism laws here, she's British so should be tried by them, otherwise tried in the country she committed the crimes - but given the situation in Syria that isn't happening.
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But she's not in Britain. If she somehow makes it back here she can have her fair trial. Until then, I would hope she'd be dodging drones for the rest of her life if it wasn't for the fact it would be a waste of a 100k missile.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Because, funnily enough, we're supposed to be held to a higher moral standard than IS. A democratic society, the same one that we keep travelling around the world trying to instill on other nations, is one of fair law and order. The right to a fair trial.

Just because you have a moral objection to someone and emotionally are compromised to the point where you hate them - and frankly I don't blame anyone who hates her and others who have joined IS - doesn't mean that those same laws we uphold as fundamentals of our democracy cease to exist.
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Nicely put. The bolded part is a really important argument. It wouldn't matter to me if Begum had murdered a million people with her own hands, it wouldn't change my stance. It's not for her sake that I think Britain should bring her back and put her on trial.
 
To be fair, nothing the conservative government have done here is out of step with the grand British legal tradition.

Read up about Charles I’s trial. If might makes right suffices for a king, why not a brown terrorist/terrorist sympathizer?
 
Cascarino said:
Nicely put. The bolded part is a really important argument. It wouldn't matter to me if Begum had murdered a million people with her own hands, it wouldn't change my stance. It's not for her sake that I think Britain should bring her back and put her on trial.
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It doesn’t seem very ‘legal’ what we are doing but I don’t think you’d find too many people that would care.
Maybe whatever law it is should be should be changed so that if you do terrorist stuff and get caught in a foreign country then you are subject to their laws and we won’t bring you back even if you are looking at a short drop and a sharp stop.
I’d be happy with that.
 
There are both moral and legal issues here. Morally speaking, imo, she has no right to be allowed back into the UK. She burned that bridge by joining ISIS.
Legally, she may have certain rights of return but I’d love to see the morality overrule that.
If she has to return then jail her for the rest of her life.
 
I know this is highly unpopular, but surely she deserves to be tried here? Can't just dump someone.
 
Give up the child to an orphanage or adoption and let her be stranded where she is and dealt with by the iraq or syrian goverment.
 
I can never agree with removing someone's citizenship. Not as if she wasn't born here.
 
Berbasbullet said:
I know this is highly unpopular, but surely she deserves to be tried here? Can't just dump someone.
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She's obviously our problem and not Syria's to deal with. And again, removing the sole citizenship of people by using their different ethnicity as argument is nothing but racial discrimination.
 
Adisa said:
I can never agree with removing someone's citizenship. Not as if she wasn't born here.
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Hmmm bit strong that. There are extreme scenarios where I would agree with it. Naturalised citizens of dual citizenship found to be acting against the State would be such a rare case.

Imagine you have a foreign spy who went undetected for years and got citizenship, then got found out and arrested. Would you not remove the citizenship and deport?
 
MadMike said:
She's obviously our problem and not Syria's to deal with. And again, removing the sole citizenship of people by using their different ethnicity as argument is nothing but racial discrimination.
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Agree with this. Have there been any examples of white people who have joined ISIS and then wanted to come back?
 
MadMike said:
She's obviously our problem and not Syria's to deal with. And again, removing the sole citizenship of people by using their different ethnicity as argument is nothing but racial discrimination.
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Or, as importantly, Bangladesh's problem. Arrogant, patronising decision from the Tories as ever.
 
She left aged 15 after being groomed online by an adult man. Taking away her citizenship was ridiculous and indefensible, and clearly motivated by racism. The correct decision made today.
 
esmufc07 said:
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If she returns to the UK to challenge the removal of UK citizenship and looses - what happens?
Bangladesh say she isnt a citizen so they wont let her get on a plane to be deported there and she has no other citizenship... I guess she has to remain here???
If she wins she can stay - if she looses I think she still has to be kept here... presumably in detention but I'm not sure i see any other outcome now
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47312207
unless we bully bangladesh into taking her (presumably by saying we will slash the aid budget and UKEF funding)
 
Bring her back to take part in a new Reality TV Show where public figures who thrive on divisive Politics and Ideologies are sent to an Island together to perform challenges and whacky activities on camera for the public...

Celebrity Hate Island - starring Nigel Farage, Ben Shapiro (special U.S guest), Tommy Robinson, Shamima Begum and Katie Hopkins.

Surely the best use for them at this point? Also would keep their followers entertained and hopefully satiated somewhat.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Bring her back to take part in a new Reality TV Show where public figures who thrive on divisive Politics and Ideologies are sent to an Island together to perform challenges and whacky activities on camera for the public...

Celebrity Hate Island - starring Nigel Farage, Ben Shapiro, Tommy Robinson, Shamima Begum and Katie Hopkins.

Surely the best use for them at this point? Also would keep their followers entertained and hopefully satiated somewhat.
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There’s a go fund me I can get behind.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Bring her back to take part in a new Reality TV Show where public figures who thrive on divisive Politics and Ideologies are sent to an Island together to perform challenges and whacky activities on camera for the public...

Celebrity Hate Island - starring Nigel Farage, Ben Shapiro (special U.S guest), Tommy Robinson, Shamima Begum and Katie Hopkins.

Surely the best use for them at this point? Also would keep their followers entertained and hopefully satiated somewhat.
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Put Elvis on there too
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Bring her back to take part in a new Reality TV Show where public figures who thrive on divisive Politics and Ideologies are sent to an Island together to perform challenges and whacky activities on camera for the public...

Celebrity Hate Island - starring Nigel Farage, Ben Shapiro (special U.S guest), Tommy Robinson, Shamima Begum and Katie Hopkins.

Surely the best use for them at this point? Also would keep their followers entertained and hopefully satiated somewhat.
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perhaps they could call it pick on the pakk!e - (seems a bit one sided on the lineup so far) ... Im sure the daily racist mail would be keen to jump on board as a sponsor though
Far too much racism surrounding this whole debate because in all honesty its a somewhat nuanced legal debate as to if they can strip the citizenship and thats the basis the case should be processed and reported on (ie. is she actually a citizen of bangladesh or not and who is the arbiter of that... ultimatley not a UK court Id guess ) - and if the case is before the end of the transition period would that ultimately enable a challenge to the European courts - Suspect the Uk Government will make sure any case is after Jan to avoid that?
 
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