The "England have had it easy" narrative

Why isn't anybody talking about Croatia's "easy" run? A run that included penalty shoot-out victories over Denmark and the 70th ranked Russian team.

I think more people would if Croatia had kicked up a fuss about where they finish in the group so they get the "easy side of the draw" and had declared themselves champions elect. They also had a much tougher group to contend. Overall though I would say that both England and Croatia have had favourable draws because once again, this is the "easy side of the draw"...

Saying England have had an easy run to date is not some outrageous, controversial statement. It's the entire fecking reason Southgate wanted 2nd place in the group in the first place! I think someone people are seeing "easy run" and confusing it with "undeserved". England have had an easy run to the semi's but that doesn't mean to say they don't deserve to be here. They absolutely do.
 
No, the comment doesn't really bother me. I said it earlier in the thread, there are loads of people, a lot on here, spending a great deal of time going around saying how bad every team England played are, how easy England have had it, and how bad England are, then when an England fan turns around and goes "well, not really" they all suddenly turn around and go "why do you care? it's just my opinion" before immediately starting back up with "England are shit. All the teams they've played are shit."

It's odd that apparently England fans are the weirdos for perhaps getting slightly irked by being hit with a barrage of belittlement and negativity every time England win, rather than the people repeatedly joining in with discussions about England purely to remind England fans that loads of people think England are actually shit and don't really deserve to be where they are.

I don't think any England fan particularly cares because they're one game away from the World Cup final and have got further than they have since 1990, but that doesn't make it any less tiring to hear over and over again.

Except you then? I think at least half of the posters in here are just trolling you by now. Just ignore this thread, move on and enjoy the world cup.

You guys are so worked up you are quoting yourselves to be able to hammer on about how great you are.
 
Seems a pretty unreasonable way to conclude. If i ever dont reach a middle ground with somebody i may adopt that technique- say their opinion is daft, that what they actually literally said was in fact cryptic code for something else, then accuse them of denying that cryptic cide. Then ill tell them to crack on. It seems like a mature approach that will take me far in life.

I've not said anything about a cryptic code mate. Your words were, "A team getting through from the other half would be a worthy world champion. A team from England's half has been very lucky."

There's nothing cryptic about that. You've said something pretty cut and dry and are now claiming that it meant something else. You explicitly declared that teams from one half would be worthy winners, and immediately contrasted that with teams from England's half being lucky. Apparently what you actually meant was teams from both halves would be worthy winners, but inexplicably failed to say that, instead, and presumably accidentally, saying one half would be lucky, and one team in particular had benefited from an undeniable, unfathomably easy draw. Go figure.
 
Except you then? I think at least half of the posters in here are just trolling you by now. Just ignore this thread, move on and enjoy the world cup.

You guys are so worked up you are quoting yourselves to be able to hammer on about how great you are.

There are some good trolls in here, no doubt. Not good enough that they can’t be easily spotted, but good enough to keep people coming back for more.
 
Except you then? I think at least half of the posters in here are just trolling you by now. Just ignore this thread, move on and enjoy the world cup.

You guys are so worked up you are quoting yourselves to be able to hammer on about how great you are.

Like, I don't really care. If anything, seeing how desperate people are to tell me I care, and their repeated efforts to explain to me just how easy England have had it when I say they haven't is reasonably amusing. Got a couple of days to kill before the next game, and as I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of the people "trolling" me are neither Belgian, French or Croatian, I can only assume that there's a decent degree of jealousy and bitterness that their home nation either failed to qualify or fell short in an earlier round.

Whatever happens now, England have had a great tournament, and far exceeded my expectations going into it. The Euro 2020 final is in Wembley so even if Croatia do us on Wednesday, I've got another two years of blasting Three Lions and shouting "IT'S COMING HOME" at random intervals.
 
This thread is so strange, of course they've had it easy. The other semi-finalists have all had harder opposition to get there.

However if they beat those teams in the SF's and Final's they will have deserved to win the WC anyway so it doesn't matter.
 
Whatever happens now, England have had a great tournament, and far exceeded my expectations going into it. The Euro 2020 final is in Wembley so even if Croatia do us on Wednesday, I've got another two years of blasting Three Lions and shouting "IT'S COMING HOME" at random intervals.

Hear hear! Been a great few weeks for us, regardless of what happens on Wednesday.
 
I think what's bothering them is that the rest of the media isn't praising this English side or how likeable they are or how football is coming home.


I think more people would if Croatia had kicked up a fuss about where they finish in the group so they get the "easy side of the draw" and had declared themselves champions elect. They also had a much tougher group to contend. Overall though I would say that both England and Croatia have had favourable draws because once again, this is the "easy side of the draw"...

Saying England have had an easy run to date is not some outrageous, controversial statement. It's the entire fecking reason Southgate wanted 2nd place in the group in the first place! I think someone people are seeing "easy run" and confusing it with "undeserved". England have had an easy run to the semi's but that doesn't mean to say they don't deserve to be here. They absolutely do.
 
I think what's bothering them is that the rest of the media isn't praising this English side or how likeable they are or how football is coming home.
Most of the media is to be fair.
 
On fecking Panama

Yeah okay, I dropped a howler there, but to be fair - this was before I'd seen Panama in action and had visions of an England vs Algeria style 0-0 or England vs USA 1-1 like in 2010.

Edit: Also I find it better to be pessimistic about England, rather than be the type to spout about how these lesser teams 'should' be no problem for England. Just like how Iceland should have been no problem for us.

I'm more confident now, but if I come across as anything but pessimistic then I'm accused of English arrogance :wenger:
 
Yeah okay, I dropped a howler there, but to be fair - this was before I'd seen Panama in action and had visions of an England vs Algeria style 0-0 or England vs USA 1-1 like in 2010.

I just found it funny mate. I was equally if not more pessimistic ahead of the tournament. I was fearful of a draw or loss to Tunisia and an embarrassing draw with Panama, before getting battered by Belgium.
 
This thread is so strange, of course they've had it easy. The other semi-finalists have all had harder opposition to get there.

However if they beat those teams in the SF's and Final's they will have deserved to win the WC anyway so it doesn't matter.

Yeah this is how I see it. Hope England win.
 
Had a productive lunchbreak so I present to you Redcafe's England World Cup predictions and rating of opponents.

On England's chances:


On Tunisia:

On fecking Panama:

On Colombia:
(when it looked like Colombia were finishing second)

On Sweden:




Thats one long lunchbreak. Still don't get why you quoted me.
 
I think more people would if Croatia had kicked up a fuss about where they finish in the group so they get the "easy side of the draw" and had declared themselves champions elect. They also had a much tougher group to contend. Overall though I would say that both England and Croatia have had favourable draws because once again, this is the "easy side of the draw"...

Saying England have had an easy run to date is not some outrageous, controversial statement. It's the entire fecking reason Southgate wanted 2nd place in the group in the first place! I think someone people are seeing "easy run" and confusing it with "undeserved". England have had an easy run to the semi's but that doesn't mean to say they don't deserve to be here. They absolutely do.

All that needs to be said is in this post. 17 pages :confused:
 
Besides Alex99's crusade I don't know if anyone mentioned it but the ref will be..

Drumroll...


Cnut Cekir :lol:
 
It doesn't really matter. You have to win them and you did till now. German went out in a group, Spain went out against Russia, you guys could slip against Columbia (which is not a bad team) or Sweden and u didn't. There are still 2 tough teams ahead and if u win it u guys will deserve it.
 
I just can't understand how he gets so many high profile games. fecking prick
UEFA's pet ref.
FIFA would want the best in the business to be refereeing the semifinals. So if it asks UEFA, they are going to recommend Cekir.
Same like if you ask FA, they ll probably recommend Oliver
 
Right, I think the best way to explain my frustrations is this:

England have beaten Colombia and Sweden so far in the knockouts, and now face Croatia in the semi-final. The line from detractors is that England could get to the final without having to beat a "top" team. I'm not sure anyone will disagree with that.

My issue is what we're defining as "top" teams. We're using "top" to mean the historically strong nations, which ignores the present strength of the other teams in the tournament. The list of teams England should apparently count themselves lucky to have avoided is consistently the same eight; Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain.

By repeatedly mentioning these teams above the rest, it seems that the prevailing attitude is that England would have been handily dispatched by the above, but should be easily beating anyone else. The reactions to the Colombia and Sweden victories is evidence of this. The crux of the issue is that the traditional "top" teams are not always the strongest eight, and in fact, a number of them can actually be incredibly weak when compared to their reputations, and when compared to the teams who have stepped up in their place. The message from this is that England couldn't beat these sides, which for some, in their current state, is simply wrong.

This is a rundown of the "top" teams that England should be counting themselves lucky to have avoided:

Argentina only qualified for this World Cup in the final round of fixtures. They were very close to not even being in Russia at all. In qualifying, they lost to Ecuador, Paraguay, and Bolivia, and drew with Paraguay, Venezuela twice, and Peru twice, as well as being beaten 3-0 by Brazil. At the tournament, they drew with Iceland, and were beaten 3-0 by the same Croatia side England now have to face in their semi-final. They ultimately finished second in their group, behind group winners Croatia, and were then eliminated by France, one of the remaining semi-finalists.

Brazil qualified very comfortably, with the only real blemishes being a loss to Chile, and draws with Bolivia and Paraguay. They were also reasonably comfortable in the group stage with perhaps something of a stuttering start after drawing with Switzerland and requiring stoppage time goals to beat Costa Rica, but ultimately topped the group. A fairly comfortable first knockout tie against Mexico was followed by elimination at the hands of Belgium, another of the remaining semi-finalists.

France also qualified comfortably, the only notes being draws with Luxembourg and Belarus, and most notably, losing to Sweden. France also had something of an unconvincing start in the group stage, but ultimately beat Australia and Peru to top their group. They beat Argentina in the first knockout round, and Uruguay in the quarter-final, and are now perhaps the favourites to win the tournament.

Germany qualified with a 100% record, but have had a torrid tournament. They lost to both Mexico and South Korea, and their group was topped by Sweden, with Germany finishing bottom.

Italy failed to qualify. They finished second in a group topped by Spain, with no real blemishes other than a draw with Macedonia, but were then eliminated in the play-off by Sweden, not managing a single goal over the two legs.

Netherlands also failed to qualify (after finishing fourth in their Euro 2016 qualifying group and failing to qualify for that too). They finished third in their group, behind Sweden in second.

Portugal qualified comfortably, but were then very unconvincing in the group stage of the tournament, drawing with Iran and beating Morocco by just a single goal, finishing second in their group, before being eliminated by Uruguay in the first knockout round.

Spain also qualified comfortably, but were also unconvincing in the group stage, drawing with Morocco and only beating Iran by a single goal. They topped the group, but were eliminated by Russia in the first knockout round after being taken to penalties.

The idea that England's potential route to the final would somehow have been more difficult had they faced Netherlands, Italy or Germany in the quarter-final, to face Argentina or Spain in the semi-final is just bizarre, because the team England faced in the quarter-final was directly involved in Netherlands, Italy and Germany not being there, and the team they're facing in the semi-final beat Argentina 3-0 in the group stage, and just eliminated the team that knocked Spain out in the quarter-final. It's not just an insult to England, it's an insult to the other teams that have proven themselves better than the likes of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Netherlands and Argentina to be writing them off as "easy passage."
Why are you spending all this energy denying England have had an easy route to the semi's? So some nobodies on twitter and facebook are stating it...so what? You can't laugh it off and look forwards to the next match? You have had it easy ...calm the f down and get over it.
 
youre writing hundreds of words to dispell the england had it easy narrative when they played sweden and colombia without james. there are two certainties in life. one is that england had an easy route and the other is that muse is a shit one trick band
:lol: This!
 
Had a productive lunchbreak so I present to you Redcafe's England World Cup predictions and rating of opponents.

On England's chances:


On Tunisia:

On fecking Panama:

On Colombia:
(when it looked like Colombia were finishing second)

On Sweden:




Because context?
 
Why is this still a discussion? Yes, England has had easy opponents, period.

Does that reduce the value of the cup if they win it, absolutely No and in the end only champions are remembered for ever.
 
You can only beat what’s in front of you and I think England have been pretty good but the teams they’ve faced haven’t been top teams.
How do you tell the difference between a top team and a non-top team?
 
How do you tell the difference between a top team and a non-top team?

Pretty easily? Good players, past pedegree, highly ranked by fifa, Columbia without their best player ran England very close indeed and they only have a little of the above going for them. I don’t mind England at all, I think they’ve a good team now and I’m looking forward to seeing them properly challenged.
 
Pretty easily? Good players, past pedegree, highly ranked by fifa, Columbia without their best player ran England very close indeed and they only have a little of the above going for them. I don’t mind England at all, I think they’ve a good team now and I’m looking forward to seeing them properly challenged.
By reputation rather than results? Got it.

Football isn't played on paper.
 
Of course we have had an easy route but that is what makes it so good after Iceland two years ago . We are in a world cup semi with John Stones , Kyle Walker and Harry Maguire in a back three , Ashley Young LWB and Alli , Lingard and Jordan feckin Hendo in midfield . Can you believe it ? We will most likely lose against Croatia but it has been great . Good old Southgate , made it fun again .
 
England has had an easier route, but it’s irrelevant.

My guess is that the OP feels that England isn’t getting respect for getting to the semis.

The other three have faced and defeated prior winners of the tournament.

France Wins over Argentina and Uruguay

Belgium with wins over England* and Brazil

Croatia with a win over Argentina.

In the grand scheme of things it’s really pointless discussion because no matter what happens the team is young and not much was expected. It’s been a successful tournament.

It will be interesting to see what happens at 2020 in terms of development and group draw.
 
Who gives a feck if England have had it easy. This is only the second time in my lifetime that we have managed to get into the semi final of the world cup with a decent chance of actually winning it all. These so called easy teams that England have faced have directly or indirectly been responsible for the so called "big" teams not making it to the semi finals. I have enjoyed every minute of England's campaign so far, and will continue enjoying it till they are out. IF England do manage to pull this off, no one is going to remember who they beat on their way to the finals, all people will remember is who won.