I'm shit talking, BB. I don't really mean it.The "England have had it easy" narrative
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I'm shit talking, BB. I don't really mean it.You're surely referring to Stones and Maguire?
Youre not allowed to say that in here, youre obviously sad and bitter and anti english
Theyve played 2 genuinely good football teams (belgium and croatia) and lost them both. If james was fit for colombia then they may have tried to play football instead of being shithouses so may have seen a different there we dont know. England have had it easy to get to this stage.
Its over now anyway all aboard waistcoat thursday
Its over now anyway all aboard waistcoat thursday
I thought Maguire was OK, although Stones was shaky but he is always shaky even at City. I thought England was weak in MF but can't pin the blame entirely on Henderson as he was supported only by Alli and Lingard, not my ideal MF partnership if you want to dominate MF. So I put the blame on Southgate on team selection hope he will learn from this.
p.s. Big Sam would probably pick Smalling over Maguire, who might not score those crucial goals and would be equally shaky. It would be an interesting thought on what-if Big Sam. I bet England won't pass Last16.
Thought it was “coming home”?
Oh well boys, 2022?
Hahahahaha. England have a great team but without fail the media make it unbearable. 'Why football is coming home this time'. feck off!
Hahahahaha. England have a great team but without fail the media make it unbearable. 'Why football is coming home this time'. feck off!
It is coming home, FIFA and the World Cup are French creationsThought it was “coming home”?
They had the chances to go into half time 2 or 3 up and didn’t take them. Once Croatia smelt the nerves they pounced. That’s what experience does and something we lacked.
During qualification our best players this tournament in Pickford, Trippier and Maguire weren’t even in contention to go to the World Cup. To gel in the time they have is only positive. Yes, this was a golden opportunity to get to a final but they were already pushing themselves to the limit.
During qualification our best players this tournament in Pickford, Trippier and Maguire weren’t even in contention to go to the World Cup. To gel in the time they have is only positive. Yes, this was a golden opportunity to get to a final but they were already pushing themselves to the limit.
That's true. Southgate has done well in that regard.
England met just 2 decent sides during the WC, both of whom it should have won against (Belgium and Croatia) but lost instead. This England side might not be the best we've ever seen but I refuse to believe it lacked the talent needed to beat Belgium or Croatia. In my opinion England lacked what Brazil, Spain and Argentina lacked ie a decent and experienced manager.
Spot on.
Don't know why they just don't declare a national holiday. It's not like we usually work anyway.
edit: wrong thread
edit: wrong thread
This England team has done well. Previous ones would have gone out to Colombia.
To get to a semi was great but sure the results to get there were unexceptional. We were never going to be a match for France and were always playing at a level below them, Belgium and others who exited before us.
We benefited from a generous draw but sadly after last night it can’t be said we made the most of it.
So yeah, we’re nothing special, we never thought we were before the tournament, but this set of players got a nation believing again and it felt great while it lasted.
We come away with an identity again now, a strong set of youth players coming through to carry this on and the passion of the fans restored. After all those years or humiliation and misery that did stop us dreaming, football still came home in 2018.
To get to a semi was great but sure the results to get there were unexceptional. We were never going to be a match for France and were always playing at a level below them, Belgium and others who exited before us.
We benefited from a generous draw but sadly after last night it can’t be said we made the most of it.
So yeah, we’re nothing special, we never thought we were before the tournament, but this set of players got a nation believing again and it felt great while it lasted.
We come away with an identity again now, a strong set of youth players coming through to carry this on and the passion of the fans restored. After all those years or humiliation and misery that did stop us dreaming, football still came home in 2018.
Belgium and Croatia are both better teams than us. Both have players who have won more. England are a very average side. Last 16 would have been par for me.
Our team is based on Spurs players who've won nothing. Just too much hype. No manager was getting further than the semis with this England squad. Southgate did well.
I strongly disagree.
All teams have an unbalanced team with 2-3 top players augmenting a less talented side. However I think that player by player England has a better side then both Belgium (although that's a close thing) and especially Croatia. Modric is good, Perisic is decent but not WC. Same as mandzukic. The rest are really West Ham level.
Regarding Southgate, he faltered once tactics became important. I think even a dancing bear could lead England to success against Panama, Colombia (minus James) and Tunisia.
You say that but we lost to Iceland in the Euros with a dancing bear in charge. I reckon if Southgate weren't there we would have gone out to Colombia.
This should be a race to the top not to the bottom. Unlike Italy who are counting the euro cents, England can afford a much better manager then some average defender with near zero experience at managerial level.
Why do people bring up be the Belgium game as one we should have won? It's a pointless match to reference seeing as neither team played their first side. Our first team played one properly good team all tournament, and as we expected came up short but we took them all the way, if we'd stuck away our chances, we'd be in the final now, but that's football.
You can't have watched much of England over the last 10 or so year if you're going to make comments like that. Failure against those sort of sides at a WC have been our speciality.
It's because it further strengthens the argument that Southgate is not good enough. England has more strength in depth then Belgium has
Except the top managers are club managers who have no interest in the England position. There's not exactly a big pool to pick from.
And most of the time its because of the same darn thing ie lack of quality management. Don't take me wrong. England has been lacking that top quality side capable of winning the WC for decades. However that doesn't justify under achievement.
I don't think many people would agree with you there, not the squad we took to the world cup anyway, but alright.
I beg to differ on that.
Conte accepted the national team with Italy and would be most certainly interested to do the same with England especially since it can afford him. In medical terms if you need a surgeon and the top surgeon refuses to operate on you, you don't settle for a cobbler.
As said, while I do concede that England lack the team to win the WC I do believe it has what it takes to take Croatia down and to beat Belgium B side with their own B side. What let England down is tactics.
Hum Perisic, Rakitic, Modric, Lovren, Mandzukic, Vrsaljko even Subasic are players a level way above West Ham, and England best 11 better side than Belgium where? Maybe on the Playstation I guess?
A B side battle when you never know how hard anyone is truly trying isn't a match to judge players on though, is it. We had the chances to beat Croatia, but it wasn't to be, thats life.
Well Perisic and Modric are top players, although I doubt Spurs would swap them with Dele Alli and Harry Kane. The rest are players England should have easily countered. Regarding Belgium they played their B side against England B side. Surely you admit that England has better strength in depth then Belgium.
What's consistent in this WC is that those with a crappy manager had underachieved against decent opposition whom they should have won against. Spain, Brazil, Argentina and now England. You don't need a manager for England to beat Tunisia and Panama.
Disagree. Belgium has many better player in my opinion. Hazard and KDB are (a lot) better than Englands best player (Kane) and Lukaku is atleast the same level as Kane. Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Alderweireld and Kompany are all better than Stones, Maquire, centre back Walker, Jones and Cahill. Midfield players like Witsel, Fellaini, Henderson, Lingard and Dele Ali (he had a shit WC) are all a bit the same to me.. alright but nothing special.
Croatia has a comparable attack and defense to England in my opinion but the Croatian midfield is something England can only dream about. Croatia has a Real Madrid player on the bench who would likely be Englands best midfielder.
England also played a good side in Colombia. Only advanced on penalties though.
That's actually the two squads that clashed swords during the WC.
http://www.skysports.com/football/england-vs-belgium/teams/385210
Now if Batshuayi (9 goals last season) is better then Vardy (24 goals). Januzaj is better then Rashford. Fellaini is better then Dier etc then I rest my case.
We have been down the highly paid foreign manager route and achieved very little despite a better playing base (certainly under Sven). Southgate’s achievements to date go beyond mere results - he has reconnected the national team with the country and made “the impossible job” look like just another national team job. Now he has to show he can improve the team and develop himself as a manager (use of subs is one area he could improve). There are no guarantees and this could have been a false dawn but he has certainly earnt the right to show he can develop England into more serious contenders.
Sven was more busy running after women and getting out of scandals to focus on his job. Capello was at the end of his career and only cared for his last big pay cheque. You were unlucky on that regard.
England enjoyed a very easy ride. It ended up losing against the only 2 decent opposition teams. That's undeniable. I think that England can afford better then some rookie whose learning the trade.
This are players who start every week for clubs who reach or reached in the past advanced stages of the Champions League? Do you know how many Spurs players reached the QF of the Champions League on their life? 0.
Even Perisic or Brozovic while not playing at that level still play at Serie A for a good club who had better days. Also they were more experienced. And that made the difference on extra time.
I agree with you regarding the managers for this competitions, if you look at the last 4 only Deschamps or Martinez can be labeled as someone who had a interesting profile at club level, Southgate and Dalic hardly done anything relevant at club level, as far I can remember.
Reason is simple, top managers are very well paid and the younger ones don't want to stay 2 or 4 years on a job where you basically just have real training sessions before and during the real tournaments.
England always breeze through the groups then make a hash of the tournament.
I'm personally not buying into the hype around this WC for England.
Bit lucky with the late goal against Tunisia, penalties v Columbia when both games we're easily winnable by more comfortable margins.
Overall, there are obviously positives. Southgate has done better than any England manager for some time and some performances have been good.
I don't think there'll be a better chance to hit the WC final though, given how many of the "big" teams have underperformed. This and the fact Engand should have been more than 1 up at half time in the semi does mean they've blown it big time. Lovren was all over the shop and England couldn't get more goals, which cost them the game
Heroes? I don't think so. They've ultimately done what every England tournament team does. Failed when they should have done better.
Overall, better then previously. But being better than previously doesn't make this lot good. Take the positives, take the momentum and learn.
Lack of CM creativity has cost England, Walker has been shoddy and no natural LB main weaknesses. Alli, Lingard and Sterling have looked good in spells and gone missing in others while Kane has tired due to too much workload. The subs have also rarely made an impact when called upon, which must be a disappointment for Southgate.
Ultimately, the 2 biggest tests for England in the tournament have resulted in 2 losses (Belgium, Croatia).
I'm personally not buying into the hype around this WC for England.
Bit lucky with the late goal against Tunisia, penalties v Columbia when both games we're easily winnable by more comfortable margins.
Overall, there are obviously positives. Southgate has done better than any England manager for some time and some performances have been good.
I don't think there'll be a better chance to hit the WC final though, given how many of the "big" teams have underperformed. This and the fact Engand should have been more than 1 up at half time in the semi does mean they've blown it big time. Lovren was all over the shop and England couldn't get more goals, which cost them the game
Heroes? I don't think so. They've ultimately done what every England tournament team does. Failed when they should have done better.
Overall, better then previously. But being better than previously doesn't make this lot good. Take the positives, take the momentum and learn.
Lack of CM creativity has cost England, Walker has been shoddy and no natural LB main weaknesses. Alli, Lingard and Sterling have looked good in spells and gone missing in others while Kane has tired due to too much workload. The subs have also rarely made an impact when called upon, which must be a disappointment for Southgate.
Ultimately, the 2 biggest tests for England in the tournament have resulted in 2 losses (Belgium, Croatia).
The English clearly overrate their national team. I know the whole "It's coming home" fiasco started out as a bit of a joke, but the longer the team stayed on, the more nauseatingly arrogant this thing got.
This current side lacks top class midfielders. Henderson and Dier are decent to solid, but they're level below of what's needed to win big tournaments. The Croatian team that was supposed to be absolutely knackered after the two 120 minute marathons they went through bossed the center of the pitch against a younger English side. When you can't keep the ball against a quality side for any serious period of time, you'll be constantly under pressure and eventually it'll cost you. Croatia's passing game and technical ablity is clearly superior to the English team, it was clear as day.
What really surprised me though is that Croatians looked the fitter of the two sides as the game went on. That's one thing Southgate should be asked about, because that doesn't make any sense.
This current side lacks top class midfielders. Henderson and Dier are decent to solid, but they're level below of what's needed to win big tournaments. The Croatian team that was supposed to be absolutely knackered after the two 120 minute marathons they went through bossed the center of the pitch against a younger English side. When you can't keep the ball against a quality side for any serious period of time, you'll be constantly under pressure and eventually it'll cost you. Croatia's passing game and technical ablity is clearly superior to the English team, it was clear as day.
What really surprised me though is that Croatians looked the fitter of the two sides as the game went on. That's one thing Southgate should be asked about, because that doesn't make any sense.
There is one thing that I find very perplexing about England, I noticed it against Colombia. English players aren't top technicians at least not the ones selected, it's strange to think that a great nation like England has a technical level comparable to Sweden or Denmark. You can see it in the PL but it's even more obvious in international tournaments.
The technical standard of their defensive line improved, the midfield suffered from the old chronical problems they always had, players who can stop, pause, breed instead always running and sprinting like if there is no tomorrow.
On the positive side for them, I think their new generation of players looks different on that role, also think Delle Ali wasn't suited for that role imo.
Agree with everything else, but did it actually?