The Mueller Report

I'm probably being naive here, but I don't see how you can not (try to) impeach Trump.

I mean for years the public has been fed how corrupt Trump is then Müller's report comes out - it may not be a slam dunk, but from what I understand it's still a very good manual for launching proceedings. To then say "sorry folks, impeachment doesn't seem political at the moment" isn't good enough imho. By refusing to go after him you give legitimacy to Trump's deeds, you imply that he's part of the same game you're playing, you become his accomplice.

And I have a hard time believing that impeachment proceedings have to be politically damaging for the Dems. Even if you don't succeed, as you drag more and more unsavory things from the Müller report into the spotlight you eventually force Republicans to commit, you give them a lot of rope to hang themselves with and hopefully they or their voters will tire of bending their morals to come up with reasons not to impeach him.
You might even be able to rally your own base down the road by spinning it into a message about how the Republican majority blocked justice and how every vote counts to prevent that from happening again.
 
do.ob said:
I'm probably being naive here, but I don't see how you can not (try to) impeach Trump.

I mean for years the public has been fed how corrupt Trump is then Müller's report comes out - it may not be a slam dunk, but from what I understand it's still a very good manual for launching proceedings. To then say "sorry folks, impeachment doesn't seem political at the moment" isn't good enough imho. By refusing to go after him you give legitimacy to Trump's deeds, you imply that he's part of the same game you're playing, you become his accomplice.

And I have a hard time believing that impeachment proceedings have to be politically damaging for the Dems. Even if you don't succeed, as you drag more and more unsavory things from the Müller report into the spotlight you eventually force Republicans to commit, you give them a lot of rope to hang themselves with and hopefully they or their voters will tire of bending their morals to come up with reasons not to impeach him.
You might even be able to rally your own base down the road by spinning it into a message about how the Republican majority blocked justice and how every vote counts to prevent that from happening again.
Click to expand...
I think the difference with the past is that Trump's base just feels more vindicated in their belief "the left" is out to get their beloved and fearless leader the more dirt gets dug up. They simply cover their ears and yell FAKE NEWS at everything.

As the woman in the interview said, they'll still vote for him even if they saw him club a baby seal.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I think the difference with the past is that Trump's base just feels more vindicated in their belief "the left" is out to get their beloved and fearless leader the more dirt gets dug up. They simply cover their ears and yell FAKE NEWS at everything.

As the woman in the interview said, they'll still vote for him even if they saw him club a baby seal.
Click to expand...

Yes. But those lunatics are probably lost for life, no matter what. Undecided and moderate Republicans are the ones you try to win over, as well as keeping engaged the voter you already have.
 
do.ob said:
Yes. But those lunatics are probably lost for life, no matter what. Undecided and moderate Republicans are the ones you try to win over, as well as keeping engaged the voter you already have.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but how big is the pull of undecided floating voters in the US? It just seems so partisan that nearly the entire election is decided before hand.
 
If you're still undecided at this stage . You might as well give up on life.
 
niMic said:
Is it? I thought the Democrats had a measurable advantage?
Click to expand...
According to Pew Research, it was at the biggest split in a generation a couple of years ago.
https://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/
In Pew Research Center surveys conducted in 2017, 37% of registered voters identified as independents, 33% as Democrats and 26% as Republicans. When the partisan leanings of independents are taken into account, 50% either identify as Democrats or lean Democratic; 42% identify as Republicans or lean Republican.

The 8-percentage-point Democratic advantage in leaned partisan identification is wider than at any point since 2009, and a statistically significant shift since 2016, when Democrats had a 4-point edge (48% to 44%).
Click to expand...

According to the most recent Gallup data, it is back to the norm.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx
In politics, as of today, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat or an independent?
Trend since 2004

2019 Apr 1-9
27(R) 44(Ind) 26(D)
Click to expand...
 
Ousted DHS secretary warned against telling Trump about her work against Russian meddling


Ousted Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was reportedly ordered to not tell President Donald Trump about her work to prevent Russian meddling in the 2020 election.

The New York Times reports that, before she was fired earlier this year, Nielsen was making a push within the White House to focus her department’s energies on defending the integrity of American elections against foreign interference.



However, the Times reports that White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney instructed her to not mention these efforts to the president for fear of angering him.

“Officials said she had become increasingly concerned about Russia’s continued activity in the United States during and after the 2018 midterm elections — ranging from its search for new techniques to divide Americans using social media, to experiments by hackers, to rerouting internet traffic and infiltrating power grids,” the report claims. “But in a meeting this year, Mick Mulvaney, the White House chief of staff, made it clear that Mr. Trump still equated any public discussion of malign Russian election activity with questions about the legitimacy of his victory.”

Nielsen subsequently gave up her efforts to conduct a cabinet-wide meeting on Russian interference and much of the information she’s acquired about new techniques the Russians are using has not been publicly revealed.
Click to expand...

 
do.ob said:
Yes. But those lunatics are probably lost for life, no matter what. Undecided and moderate Republicans are the ones you try to win over, as well as keeping engaged the voter you already have.
Click to expand...

So why trying to oust Donnie, then? There isn't a better incentive to go blue than the big cheese himself. Trump will be the easiest to beat Republican out there.
 
2ndTouch said:
So why trying to oust Donnie, then? There isn't a better incentive to go blue than the big cheese himself. Trump will be the easiest to beat Republican out there.
Click to expand...
I don't know, he wasn't that hard to beat in '16 either, yet the democrats found a way to field a candidate who was even less likable than the narcissist, geriatric sex offender that is Donald Trump.
 
do.ob said:
I'm probably being naive here, but I don't see how you can not (try to) impeach Trump.

I mean for years the public has been fed how corrupt Trump is then Müller's report comes out - it may not be a slam dunk, but from what I understand it's still a very good manual for launching proceedings. To then say "sorry folks, impeachment doesn't seem political at the moment" isn't good enough imho. By refusing to go after him you give legitimacy to Trump's deeds, you imply that he's part of the same game you're playing, you become his accomplice.

And I have a hard time believing that impeachment proceedings have to be politically damaging for the Dems. Even if you don't succeed, as you drag more and more unsavory things from the Müller report into the spotlight you eventually force Republicans to commit, you give them a lot of rope to hang themselves with and hopefully they or their voters will tire of bending their morals to come up with reasons not to impeach him.
You might even be able to rally your own base down the road by spinning it into a message about how the Republican majority blocked justice and how every vote counts to prevent that from happening again.
Click to expand...


It's never happening . They are too scared . Republicans are scared of him Dems are scared of him. Amazing
 
ChaddyP said:


It's never happening . They are too scared . Republicans are scared of him Dems are scared of him. Amazing
Click to expand...


Probably the reason for that is because they all have skeletons in the cupboard . That's what you get when surrounded by corruption . Hopefully AOC, Omar and Rashida Tlaib will be the beginning of a new type of politics.
 
Impeachment by the Dems may, just may, cause a bit of a backlash against them. Unlikely imo but sounds like they are putting the party before the country. Not good for anyone except Trump and the GOP.

Failure to impeach is far more likely to damage not only them but the country for a long time to come. No-one will want to vote for a weak, gutless, selfish and ineffective party.
 
Drifter said:
Probably the reason for that is because they all have skeletons in the cupboard . That's what you get when surrounded by corruption . Hopefully AOC, Omar and Rashida Tlaib will be the beginning of a new type of politics.
Click to expand...

What makes you think they are clean?.
 
do.ob said:
Yes. But those lunatics are probably lost for life, no matter what. Undecided and moderate Republicans are the ones you try to win over, as well as keeping engaged the voter you already have.
Click to expand...

I find most of this crowd will still vote GOP as it's "still better than a democrat!" mentality.
 
Drifter said:
Because they have been attacked by both Establishment Dems and Republicans and they are a members of Wolf Pac/Justice Democrats.
Click to expand...

Probably a matter of time before their hands get dirty as well. I don't see it possible for a politician to remain clean if serving more than a single term.
 
MrMarcello said:
Probably a matter of time before their hands get dirty as well. I don't see it possible for a politician to remain clean if serving more than a single term.
Click to expand...

Do you think Bernie and Warren are dirty? Jimmy Carter?
 
MrMarcello said:
Except that she was 2.8M more votes liked than him, not liked less than him.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but was that really because of her radiant likability or because of the fact that at least some people were put off by the sex offending and racism on the other side? To me, someone losing to Trump is still one of the most remarkable things of this whole twilight zone situation in the states.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Fair enough, but was that really because of her radiant likability or because of the fact that at least some people were put off by the sex offending and racism on the other side? To me, someone losing to Trump is still one of the most remarkable things of this whole twilight zone situation in the states.
Click to expand...

Actually, Hillary also beat Bernie in popular vote, by a wider margin 3.6M votes.

According to wikipedia:
Hillary:16,847,084
Bernie: 13,168,222

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

Look at California and New York.
 
The popular vote argument can be used only in relation to using Proportional representation as a better mean to elect a president than the electoral college.
Hillary lost states she had no business losing. WI, MI and PA.

Hopefully the DNC has learned from their mistake.
 
Florida Man said:
Carter administration oversaw many attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro. CIA and the like were also very busy in the 70s.
Click to expand...

I feel like thats more a decades long CIA/MIC obsession and no President could have really stopped that. Either way Carter wasn't anywhere near as dirty as Reagan, Bush, Clinton.
 
The Firestarter said:
What is the timeframe for impeachment? How fast can it possibly happen, in the House?
Click to expand...

It’s more likely the Dems will instead opt for a long drawn out humiliation of Trump by way of a series of subpoenas of people like McGahn, Mueller, his taxes, Deutsche Bank etc., with the intent of slowly and protractedly damaging him between now and next year amongst enough independents to where there are virtually no plausible scenarios of him winning enough swing state voters to win again, which is certainly more high percentage than a failed impeachment which leaves the Dems with egg on their collective faces and Trump in a better position to gain votes and reelection by playing the persecution card.
 
@Raoul Trump says he's going to fight the subpoenas. So we can assume it's going to the SCOTUS. What timeframe are we looking at?
 
Adisa said:
@Raoul Trump says he's going to fight the subpoenas. So we can assume it's going to the SCOTUS. What timeframe are we looking at?
Click to expand...

He will fight everything tooth and nail and so everything will be drawn out over the next couple of years.
 
If impeachment process starts, Trump will have a hell of a job getting SCO to rule in his favour regarding subpoenas.

Republicans know that they are getting a smaller and smaller share of votes and if more states move towards the popular vote they will struggle to get a R President in. I can’t see McConnell and other conservatives setting legal precedent to protect Trump that would castrate their power over a future Democrat president.
 
There's multiple advantages to the impeachment proceedings, provided they drag it out long enough, Trump wouldn't have the bandwidth to deal with impeachment, numerous congressional investigations as well as a presidential campaign. If there is a sliver of opportunity, other Republicans would see it as a chance and a few might even rise to primary him if donors think Trump's situation is untenable. If Trump sees a threat within his own party for the nomination he'd make an already toxic situation even more volatile.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.