Transgender rights discussion

Murder on Zidane's Floor said:


Honestly, the world is upside down
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My field is bio but I've never worked with or studied anything bigger than a single cell. So, with the caveat that my knowledge here is basically school-level:

Pre-pubescent male and female breasts are quite similar and have the same "raw ingredients." Female hormones during puberty promote the growth of breast tissue including ducts and glands.
It seems possible that the same might happen in trans women, given that they are are on a female hormone cocktail for life. The paper @Pexbo linked is about exactly that - not sure what you meant in your reply about " 4 of the 5 were about women lactating and the other was about a trans man " - the paper was about one individual trans woman.
 
HTG said:
She truly is a horrible person through and through. In a functioning society, she would be ostracised.
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Ostracised how? She's basically an angry old woman on twitter at this point. She just also happens to be one of the richest women in the world and nobody can take that money from her.

As far as I know she doesn't go to award shows or TV shows. The cast of the HP films don't have anything to do with her anymore either.
 
africanspur said:
Ostracised how? She's basically an angry old woman on twitter at this point. She just also happens to be one of the richest women in the world and nobody can take that money from her.

As far as I know she doesn't go to award shows or TV shows. The cast of the HP films don't have anything to do with her anymore either.
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She should be shot from a catapult.
 
africanspur said:
Ostracised how? She's basically an angry old woman on twitter at this point. She just also happens to be one of the richest women in the world and nobody can take that money from her.

As far as I know she doesn't go to award shows or TV shows. The cast of the HP films don't have anything to do with her anymore either.
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She’s the kind of person we should all carry rotten fruits for.
 
HTG said:
She’s the kind of person we should all carry rotten fruits for.
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Would strongly support this to be fair. She's so far off the deep end now and it's seemingly become an existential issue for her.

Which just makes so little sense considering her position.
 
Goldfiessli said:
Genuinely curious what goes through her head when she posts stuff like that. Surely, if you have that much money, you should be able to do more interesting things than being an idiot on Twitter.
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In her bigotry she has convinced herself, that she is sticking up for women. And every time someone goes after her for it, she just doubles down and claims it is a “trans mob” or “trans lobby” as if either of those things really exist.

She is too deep in the muck now. She can’t back down now without looking like a huge loser. And I suspect her neoliberal viewpoint also leads her to the conclusion that since she is wealthy, she must also be right.
 
Goldfiessli said:
Genuinely curious what goes through her head when she posts stuff like that. Surely, if you have that much money, you should be able to do more interesting things than being an idiot on Twitter.
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Basically a conversation myself and my mates have about Graham Linehan. He could've easily said "It was a distasteful episode which I regret and will hope to do better in future." Instead the man went down a warped rabbit hole where he lost his wife, career and any self respect he could've had.
 
StamsShinyHead said:
Basically a conversation myself and my mates have about Graham Linehan. He could've easily said "It was a distasteful episode which I regret and will hope to do better in future." Instead the man went down a warped rabbit hole where he lost his wife, career and any self respect he could've had.
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It’s really fascinating. They just need to delete an app of their phone and they would instantly become significantly happier people. With much more enjoyable lives. And yet they won’t do that. A whole new form of madness that didn’t exist 30 years ago. Twitter’s capacity to melt people’s brains while stopping them from looking away is almost like witchcraft.
 
Rowling going off the deep end again. You'd think she'd have something better to do with her time.

She seems to really genuinely think that she's some revolutionary sticking it to the system with her posts.
 
I was reading that she has some creative control in terms of the HBO Harry Potter series they're making. Wonder if it will end up getting cancelled or it's pushed through and we get some TERF-y acting or dialogue.
 
SilentWitness said:
I was reading that she has some creative control in terms of the HBO Harry Potter series they're making. Wonder if it will end up getting cancelled or it's pushed through and we get some TERF-y acting or dialogue.
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My understanding is she has some creative control over anything to do with Harry Potter, but I don't think she actually offers much these days and it's largely just her name being tacked on as it's her IP.

Hogwarts Legacy included a trans character and had the option for the player character to be trans too.
 
africanspur said:
Rowling going off the deep end again. You'd think she'd have something better to do with her time.

She seems to really genuinely think that she's some revolutionary sticking it to the system with her posts.
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And Little Rishi unsurprisingly agreeing with her, as if you needed any more evidence that she's on the wrong side of history.
 
africanspur said:
Rowling going off the deep end again. You'd think she'd have something better to do with her time.

She seems to really genuinely think that she's some revolutionary sticking it to the system with her posts.
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Well Scotlands new hate crime bill would see her arrested.
 
Alex99 said:
My understanding is she has some creative control over anything to do with Harry Potter, but I don't think she actually offers much these days and it's largely just her name being tacked on as it's her IP.

Hogwarts Legacy included a trans character and had the option for the player character to be trans too.
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That's true but I figured that game was fairly left field from the Hogwarts universe in general and she wasn't involved in the creation but I read she's going to be an exec producer on the new series.
 
SilentWitness said:
That's true but I figured that game was fairly left field from the Hogwarts universe in general and she wasn't involved in the creation but I read she's going to be an exec producer on the new series.
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I genuinely don't know a great deal about these things but I thought "executive producer" was pretty much just having your name tacked onto the credits?
 
Alex99 said:
I genuinely don't know a great deal about these things but I thought "executive producer" was pretty much just having your name tacked onto the credits?
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I think it can vary, sometimes they take a more active role and sometimes take a back seat like you say.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think it can vary, sometimes they take a more active role and sometimes take a back seat like you say.
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I doubt she'll try and use it as a mouthpiece for anything, if only because HBO simply won't let her. It's too big of a platform and at this point the show isn't being created for her audience.
 
Gehrman said:
Alright then.
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I honestly don't know to be fair, I've not read the bill in full.

It just seemed to be classically fantastical from her as to what she was doing and what she was likely to fall victim to in terms of punishment.

I'm not even talking as someone who's a massive ally or something like that, the debate barely registers at all in my thinking on a regular basis.
 
africanspur said:
I honestly don't know to be fair, I've not read the bill in full.

It just seemed to be classically fantastical from her as to what she was doing and what she was likely to fall victim to in terms of punishment.

I'm not even talking as someone who's a massive ally or something like that, the debate barely registers at all in my thinking on a regular basis.
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She has a persecution complex like many other TERFs and transphobes. She's an extremely wealthy and rather powerful person, but has a constant need to make herself the victim in this manufactured struggle.
 
Mike Smalling said:
She has a persecution complex like many other TERFs and transphobes. She's an extremely wealthy and rather powerful person, but has a constant need to make herself the victim in this manufactured struggle.
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Well she is wealthy and famous, but would it be outrageous to suggest that the thousands of death threats, descriptions of mutilation they want to do on her might make her less diplomatic? Also I think she would like to see this going to court because, A: she believes the bill infringes free speech thereby free thought. B: She is a world wide celebrity, putting her on court would put immense amount of scrutiny on the new bill. C: She is rich, she can afford the best lawyers on earth, so she can create scrutiny on the law whilst getting the best deal.
 
Gehrman said:
Well she is wealthy and famous, but would it be outrageous to suggest that the thousands of death threats, descriptions of mutilation they want to do on her might make her less diplomatic? Also I think she would like to see this going to court because, A: she believes the bill infringes free speech thereby free thought. B: She is a world wide celebrity, putting on her court would put immense amount of scrutiny on the new bill. C: She is rich, she can afford the best lawyers on earth, so she can create scrutiny on the law whilst getting the best deal.
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I can't speak to the amount of death threats and other vile messages she gets online, but of course that's never ok. Full stop. That doesn't happen in a vacuum though. She started out with mild transphobia, and has since doubled, tripled, quadrupled down to the point of allying herself with some truly vile people. People like her always like to roll out the "We're just saying biological sex is real" or "We're just protecting free speech", when that is not even remotely close to what they are actually doing. They are contributing to spreading hate and causing actual harm to a group of people that are already exposed.

She's flat out pathetic, and I have zero sympathy for her.
 
africanspur said:
I honestly don't know to be fair, I've not read the bill in full.

It just seemed to be classically fantastical from her as to what she was doing and what she was likely to fall victim to in terms of punishment.

I'm not even talking as someone who's a massive ally or something like that, the debate barely registers at all in my thinking on a regular basis.
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https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/contents

I think this is it,


4Offences of stirring up hatred
(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)the person—

(i)behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or

(ii)communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, and

(b)either—

(i)in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins, or

(ii)a reasonable person would consider the behaviour or the communication of the material to be likely to result in hatred being stirred up against such a group.

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Pick the bones out of that.

lawyers are going to love this.
 
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Don't Kill Bill said:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/contents

I think this is it,


4Offences of stirring up hatred
(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)the person—

(i)behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or

(ii)communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, and

(b)either—

(i)in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins, or

(ii)a reasonable person would consider the behaviour or the communication of the material to be likely to result in hatred being stirred up against such a group.

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Pick the bones out of that.

lawyers are going to love this.
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Of course of its doing the rounds that the main author of this bill rather insultingly laments the fact that the majority of the scottish parliament is white in a country where 97% of the population is white.

 
The issue comes with including the word insulting. Because an individual or group feeling insulted should be irrelevant as far as the law is concerned. Obviously.

And the police have had no training on what is meant by "insulting" or what constitutes a "reasonable person".
 
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