Varchester City 18/19 discussion

Pointless discussion in here. City fans comparing their current team to united teams of past or liverpool teams of past is absurd really. Barely the same sport and citys toxic project shouldnt be equated to iconic sides from better times for the sport. Versus future teams sure, but that would be a discussion about this watered down version of football where city should be beating most teams very comfortably.
 
padr81 said:
I think Liverpool have been defended better by everyone not just City, in fact all City had to do was play 10 yards deeper, Liverpool very much try and play the same way, it just doesn't work if teams don't allow them to ping balls behind the fullbacks. City are wise to this, which is the opposite to last season, heat maps from last season show City played with 11 players almost in Liverpools half in the 2 CL games, just a bit below that in the 4-3 in the league.

This year we simply kept Mendy and Walker back and played a decent line (not Jose deep but deep by City standards), this is the opposite to the thing Pep did at Bayern where they got counter attacked to death in the CL so maybe he's learning from his previous result. I wouldn't call 3 semi finals at Bayern underperforming, I'd call it acceptable but not great. His two campaigns at City have been far below par though and both have been down to him playing naively similar to Bayern.

I agree our first tough test in the CL will tell, will he revert to type and vs players who can murder us on the counter play a crazy high line, or continue with the blueprint he set out vs Liverpool.

Don't think a semi is enough to be a great team, we need a win in the next 2-3 seasons and a couple more league titles imho.
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City tactically at Anfield were brilliant. I seem to recall Pep saying something along the lines of slowing down your play taking your time finding the right pass. Instead of trying to match our speed and having a game of pressing and counter pressing. Technically your team is miles ahead especially in midfield your players aren't afraid of receiving it in tight spaces.

And i agree it bodes well for the CL that you can switch up the style.
 
el magico said:
Ok, you are American? I was curious as to why you had so little understanding of English football. I don't know one single player from the New York Yamkees I'm afraid. Joe Bontana?
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I'm not American but the New York Yankees are the most famous team by far. You're telling me you've never heard of Babe Ruth, Micky Mantle or Joe DiMaggio? I've heard of them and I've never watched a baseball game in my life.

George Best and Bobby Charlton are those names around the world. Whenever you'd say you're from Manchester when on foreign soil in the 70's and 80's, they used to simply smile, nod and say "ahh Bobby Charlton"

If you say "Liverpool" when they were a dominant football team, I'd guarentee they'd have said "The Beatles"

70's and 80's English football really wasn't that popular in comparison to the 60's. The crowds were down and domestic leagues across the world became more prominent. It was only when the Premier League came in that it became a big hit around the world and again Manchester United were at the forefront. United have been quite lucky in the times they were on top when it comes to world recognition.

It's like Music. 60's bands were more popular worldwide than 70's or 80's were. There was a different appeal and stardom about the 60's.

Manchester United have been the biggest team in the country since then.

Why are Liverpool still the 2nd biggest in 2018 if it was all about success?
 
People like Kenny Dalglish, Ian Rush, Graeme Souness etc really aren't that famous around the world, non football fans wouldn't know them.

George Best and Bobby Charlton were superstars on and off the pitch.
 
CA1 said:
United have been quite lucky in the times they were on top when it comes to world recognition.
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Nah - Sky Sports were quite lucky that we had enormously exciting players like Cantona and Giggs.
 
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VorZakone said:
Why did they struggle so much with Lyon?
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Physicality mixed with a set of tactics that matched up perfectly on two occasions. Probably missed De Bruyne more in these games than we would in any other. They managed to knock Silva and Fernandinho off their game by crowding them out and the 3rd midfielder being Gundogan at home and Sterling away did nothing to supplement them.
 
SER19 said:
Pointless discussion in here. City fans comparing their current team to united teams of past or liverpool teams of past is absurd really. Barely the same sport and citys toxic project shouldnt be equated to iconic sides from better times for the sport. Versus future teams sure, but that would be a discussion about this watered down version of football where city should be beating most teams very comfortably.
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Better times for the sport?
In the 70’s and 80’s players were regularly kicked out of the game (look at the number of vets hobbling around or on their arses these days for one reason or another.
Look at the number or fans who were beaten up or worse by opposing fans, unsafe stadia being used, racist chanting every bloody week, dungheap pitches like the Derby’s Baseball Ground being played on.

My guess is that you were not even alive in the times you allude to let alone attending games.
 
VorZakone said:
Why did they struggle so much with Lyon?
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I couldn't watch their match the other day because of ours but I just got to watch it yesterday and there are some things that stuck out for me:

1. They are beatabe. Lyon is a good side but no better than the Spurs, Chelseas of this world. What are Lyon doing right that other epl teams can learn and exploit?
2. Admittedly they had one of their 2 midfield genuises out. Only D. Silva was fit. KDB and Bernado were not and so Ndombele stayed tight on their only creative outlet and did a darn good job at it. If Bernado was there it would have been a lot harder
3. City build from defense but actually control games from the middle. If teams know that their main strength lies in the middle not attack, their attempts to stifle them will be more focused
4. When teams press them well they loose the necessary rhythm required to control the game and their gameplan suddeny falls like a pack of cards
5. If teams can sacrifice two players to keep an eye on their midfield wizard midgets, it would go a long way. So if you have a team that uses 4-2-3-1, they can slightly change it to a 4-3-3. 2 midfielders man marking Silva and co whilst one holds the fort. 3 attackers dropping deep closing the space, it will go a long way
6. Pacy attackers to stretch their defense to no end as Cornet, Depay and Fekir did very well.
7. Luck certainly has its part so I wouldn't leave it out.
 
Pep's City always seem to be playing the Bournemouth's of this world at home. It's like this perception illusion with them. I guess it's because they are so good they render all they render all they opponents into this generic team.
 
Yorkeontop said:
Pep's City always seem to be playing the Bournemouth's of this world at home. It's like this perception illusion with them. I guess it's because they are so good they render all they render all they opponents into this generic team.
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I watched that match and imo Bournemouth's performance for 70 or so mnutes was as good as any non top 6 team is ever gonna play against City. They even created 2/3 clear chances, better than UTD, better than Liverpool and certanly better than Arsenal. Thing is even a great perfomance from a small team wont be enough, they'd need luck too to get anything against Peps City.

City are also relentless and in the last 20 mnutes of games they would have worn down the opponent. they always seem to score then.
 
Yorkeontop said:
Pep's City always seem to be playing the Bournemouth's of this world at home. It's like this perception illusion with them. I guess it's because they are so good they render all they render all they opponents into this generic team.
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I thought Bournemouth for long parts, especially in the first half, gave them a decent run for their money. But yes they make it look easy against almost everyone but remember how it looks every time we are up against teams like that.
 
Bergman said:
I watched that match and imo Bournemouth's performance for 70 or so mnutes was as good as any non top 6 team is ever gonna play against City. They even created 2/3 clear chances, better than UTD, better than Liverpool and certanly better than Arsenal. Thing is even a great perfomance from a small team wont be enough, they'd need luck too to get anything against Peps City.

City are also relentless and in the last 20 mnutes of games they would have worn down the opponent. they always seem to score then.
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West Ham did this too. They created a bunch of good chances and were unlucky not to score. We're a very good side but not invincible.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Better times for the sport?
In the 70’s and 80’s players were regularly kicked out of the game (look at the number of vets hobbling around or on their arses these days for one reason or another.
Look at the number or fans who were beaten up or worse by opposing fans, unsafe stadia being used, racist chanting every bloody week, dungheap pitches like the Derby’s Baseball Ground being played on.

My guess is that you were not even alive in the times you allude to let alone attending games.
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And i could make guesses about you too but lets leave it there. You in denial and me leaving you to it
 
SER19 said:
And i could make guesses about you too but lets leave it there. You in denial and me leaving you to it
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Grow up.
You look at the footballing world through your red tinted glasses with no appreciation of what you’re saying and no background knowledge to support your sweeping statements.
You’re desperately clutching to world events to mollify your hurt about your club’s current predicament and deep down you know it.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Grow up.
You look at the footballing world through your red tinted glasses with no appreciation of what you’re saying and no background knowledge to support your sweeping statements.
You’re desperately clutching to world events to mollify your hurt about your club’s current predicament and deep down you know it.
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Youre very good at telling strangers things about themselves. No point engaging with you id have to dig around ten feet of dubai sand away from you to get to you to hear anything. You just go and enjoy your project piss their way to another 100 points and pretend its a great footballing story. One im sure you dreamt about on those proud days on the terraces in the 70s
 
All of tomorrow's papers are reporting head of UEFA, Ceferin, states 'concrete case' against City, re: FFP.
Champions League ban being talked about by the media
 
winteriscoming said:
All of tomorrow's papers are reporting head of UEFA, Ceferin, states 'concrete case' against City, re: FFP.
Champions League ban being talked about by the media
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Yup, looks like we've been found guilty. If we are, we deserve the ban. While FFP is a joke, we went along with it instead of opposing it in 2014, we took the deal and now we should deal with the consequences. It should never be there, but we chose to join it instead of trying to end it.

Looks like we did the crime and if we did we should have no complaints about doing the time.
 
I doubt it'll be long enough that players won't want to go there and all those bought through cheating want to leave, therefore not just.
I'll wait and see, but I doubt it. Surely they have get to back inside the rules they've broken too?
 
padr81 said:
Yup, looks like we've been found guilty. If we are, we deserve the ban. While FFP is a joke, we went along with it instead of opposing it in 2014, we took the deal and now we should deal with the consequences. It should never be there, but we chose to join it instead of trying to end it.

Looks like we did the crime and if we did we should have no complaints about doing the time.
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But isn't this the 'crime' we've already been found guilty of and subsequently fined?

We have an owner who bought a company, wanted to invest in it, and the local City and community. Other clubs got worried, invented FFP to stop any investment, so he invested in the sponsors to channel the money?

Thats basically the crime?

If there's a ban, there will be an appeal and court case into FFP. It will be interesting watching this unfold.
 
VeevaVee said:
I doubt it'll be long enough that players won't want to go there and all those bought through cheating want to leave, therefore not just.
I'll wait and see, but I doubt it. Surely they have get to back inside the rules they've broken too?
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If they are found guilty, they are finished. I don't see how they could be taken seriously.

Every future success will be shrouded in doubt.

If it happens, lets hope Guardiola has to face the music instead of walking off into the sunset.
 
CA1 said:
If they are found guilty, they are finished. I don't see how they could be taken seriously.

Every future success will be shrouded in doubt.

If it happens, lets hope Guardiola has to face the music instead of walking off into the sunset.
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I hope you're right, but I expect it'll be brushed under the carpet and barely spoken of after the first few weeks
 
VeevaVee said:
I doubt it'll be long enough that players won't want to go there and all those bought through cheating want to leave, therefore not just.
I'll wait and see, but I doubt it. Surely they have get to back inside the rules they've broken too?
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Exactly. A one year Champions League ban will be a slap on the wrist and won't come close to making up for all the gains they've made by cheating the system. This is mainly about UEFA covering its ass. If they truly wanted to deter future cheating, then they'd give the penalty real teeth - like a five year ban from the competition, which would be enough to deal a very serious blow to the club. But I doubt they're interested in doing that.
 
Honestly just have no faith in the entire football machinery from top to bottom. Would be nice if for once justice was exacted i.e a meaningful ban for a few years. Sadly they'll probably fine them.
 
CA1 said:
If they are found guilty, they are finished. I don't see how they could be taken seriously.

Every future success will be shrouded in doubt.

If it happens, lets hope Guardiola has to face the music instead of walking off into the sunset.
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Nothing will happen to Guardiola and the players. Not sure what they have done wrong. Would be interesting to see how a serious ban would affect that side of things.
 
1 year ban wouldn't affect them seriously. 3 years ban though (is there such an option?) could seriously hurt their transfer policy.

But that would mean that they would likely win the league every year while being out of Europe. Most of their players are relatively young and they have heirs to Silva, Aguero and Kompany. Besides, they have good players loaned out or coming from the Academy.
 
Bergman said:
Nothing will happen to Guardiola and the players. Not sure what they have done wrong. Would be interesting to see how a serious ban would affect that side of things.
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A European ban effects the manager and the players greatly.

Guardiola would have to face the music because he's the figurehead of a club who have broken the rules and cheated. He has profitted from that cheating with the money he has spent to improve his squad. He has selected players in CL games that have been unfairly bought. He should be at least be asked whether he feels you should be punished if you bend the rules. He shouldn't be able to just ride off into the sunset.
 
SER19 said:
Youre very good at telling strangers things about themselves. No point engaging with you id have to dig around ten feet of dubai sand away from you to get to you to hear anything. You just go and enjoy your project piss their way to another 100 points and pretend its a great footballing story. One im sure you dreamt about on those proud days on the terraces in the 70s
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Highs and Lows remind us what real life is all about.
City are on a big high at the moment, United less so.
Things will turn sooner or later and we will look back on how we reacted to the twin impostors that Rudyard Kipling referred to in his classic poem "If" and decide whether we were as grounded in good times as we were in bad.
Your current "disappointment" is there for all to observe. Maybe this has contributed to your temporary loss of geographical knowledge?
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Highs and Lows remind us what real life is all about.
City are on a big high at the moment, United less so.
Things will turn sooner or later and we will look back on how we reacted to the twin impostors that Rudyard Kipling referred to in his classic poem "If" and decide whether we were as grounded in good times as we were in bad.
Your current "disappointment" is there for all to observe. Maybe this has contributed to your temporary loss of geographical knowledge?
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United have had enough highs in recent times to accept the inevitable post ferguson slump. City are cheats and will hopefully be punished as so if reports today are true.

Your problem, like most city fans, is that any criticism of your team is always for some reason considered relative to man utd. We are at a point where city come up against about 95% of teams in England and not only do we know they will win but win very easily where 4-0 is more likely than a hard fought 1-0. They are more easily dominant than celtic for gods sake. No past club no matter how dominant had it this easy relative to picking up 60 points from the bottom half. You can pretend its just down to having a great manager and top players. As a sports fan im going to recognise the unprecedented spending and flouting of rules.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Highs and Lows remind us what real life is all about.
City are on a big high at the moment, United less so.
Things will turn sooner or later and we will look back on how we reacted to the twin impostors that Rudyard Kipling referred to in his classic poem "If" and decide whether we were as grounded in good times as we were in bad.
Your current "disappointment" is there for all to observe. Maybe this has contributed to your temporary loss of geographical knowledge?
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Winning whilst cheating and breaking the rules is a low in my eyes although I admit it is subjective.
 
CA1 said:
Winning whilst cheating and breaking the rules is a low in my eyes although I admit it is subjective.
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Breaking rules that were only intended to protect the then elite is fair enough in my book. Had the Sheik taken over at the same time as Abramovich did at Chelsea, nobody would be talking about this.
 
Selfishly, I hope we're banned for life given that I have absolutely no interest in the Champions League. However, I realise that would have a negative impact on the club, particularly keeping/bringing in players who all seem to want to play in the competition.

Clearly we tried to meet FFP and failed. We were punished for this at the time. The new allegations are effectively that in attempting to meet FFP (which we still didn't do), we cheated by inflating some numbers and trying to push some other numbers elsewhere.

Without going over old ground on the rights and wrongs of FFP, I would point out that the reason we were scrambling to meet FFP (and potentially ended up cheating) was because the FFP rules were changed during the review period. We passed the original FFP rules. We failed the new FFP rules that were brought in during the process. But of course I'm not a conspiracy theorist...

More reading on this rule change is here, written by a City fan but the content is 100% solid: https://boltfromtheblue.live/2018/11/18/how-uefa-shifted-the-goalposts-to-shaft-man-city/.
 
Those leaks are about the infraction we were already found guilty of, and punished for, in 2014. Nothing is going to happen, and certainly not from illegally obtained 'hacked emails'.
 
winteriscoming said:
But isn't this the 'crime' we've already been found guilty of and subsequently fined?

We have an owner who bought a company, wanted to invest in it, and the local City and community. Other clubs got worried, invented FFP to stop any investment, so he invested in the sponsors to channel the money?

Thats basically the crime?

If there's a ban, there will be an appeal and court case into FFP. It will be interesting watching this unfold.
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Yeah but we were fined for missing out by "x amount" while its looking like the reality is we missed out by vastly more and covered it up. As I said instead of complying and accepting that fine we should have fought FFP for the sham it is. We chose to play by there rules when we accepted that.

The whole decision from then irritates me, Uefa moving the goalposts, us getting screwed by it. But for our part we took the deal, we pretty much accepted FFP there and then. We have to be honest, we never should have, should have fought tooth and nail to end FFP but we didn't.
 
I know they're our rivals and I'm never exactly going to watch them with joy but anyone else find they've made it all kind of boring now? Every game they're usually like 3 - 0 up within the first 30 minutes, often courtesy of 3 well-worked tap-ins. Don't get me wrong they're an incredibly well oiled machine and some of their goals are great but so many of them are pass, pass, pass, cut-back, tap-in. I swear Sterling and Jesus are absolute stat padders benefiting from players like Sane and Silva. It's like when someone gives themselves infinite money on FM and figures out an exploit to score the same goal every game.
 
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