We are completely dependent on Pogba's contribution

deafepl

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Pogba's contribution stats https://twitter.com/Squawka/status/114022256005713510

That kind of highlighted that he was our most important last season, we depend on him more than top 6 sides club depend on their player exception Chelsea with Hazard.


For example, Liverpool has 5 and City has 6 players share the load for their team in 9 stats that Pogba comfortably topped for us.


Pogba may not be great defensively but he can't do everything, it drains him more, he was instructed to bring balls from back deeper, create chances and tries to shot, try to take the player on when he has no movement in front of him, challenging for foul and make most passes because there's no quality that is closer to his quality on other sides.

Do you think if we build more top quality players in the team around him and share loads for a team like attacking and defensive stats and reduce our dependence on Pogba, would we better off as well as Pogba?

I'm not completely sold on the idea of Pogba being sold for 150m to reinvest in the squad, we didn't have a great record with signing, it could be risky that set us backwards.
 
deafepl said:
Do you think if we build more top quality players in the team around him and share loads for a team like attacking and defensive stats and reduce our dependence on Pogba, would we better off as well as Pogba?
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This is easier said than done, our recruiting efforts have failed spectacularly over the last few years.

deafepl said:
I'm not completely sold on the idea of Pogba being sold for 150m to reinvest in the squad, we didn't have a great record with signing, it could be risky that set us backwards.
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Agreed, we need to ensure we're fit and firing before selling any key players.
 
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This has always been obvious. You take away Pogba Ole would be prepping pre season for Molde.
 
Not this again...

Most goals - penalties
Most fouls won - ? What kind of stat is that anyway? Because he doesn't give it away soon enough, that's why. You see Lpools and Citys counterparts? Sane and Sterling. Divers and forward players - and they get fouled less! What is there to brag about, i honestly don't get it!!
Most shots on Target - 50!! And only how many goals out of that? Look at Agueros stats, nearly 50%!

Honestly....all this pro Pogba stats that you think are great, they really aren't.
 
DickDastardly said:
Not this again...

Most goals - penalties
Most fouls won - ? What kind of stat is that anyway? Because he doesn't give it away soon enough, that's why. You see Lpools and Citys counterparts? Sane and Sterling. Divers and forward players - and they get fouled less! What is there to brag about, i honestly don't get it!!
Most shots on Target - 50!! And only how many goals out of that? Look at Agueros stats, nearly 50%!

Honestly....all this pro Pogba stats that you think are great, they really aren't.
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Most fouls - the city guys play in the wing. Pogba plays in a more congested space, more likely to get fouled.

Shots - You are going to compare a strikers shooting efficiency to a midfielder? And not just any striker but one of the PL best ever.

I guess you ignored the other stats because you cant fault them. Messi apart I doubt there is another player so influential in a team as Pogba is to us.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Most fouls - the city guys play in the wing. Pogba plays in a more congested space, more likely to get fouled.

Shots - You are going to compare a strikers shooting efficiency to a midfielder? And not just any striker but one of the PL best ever.

I guess you ignored the other stats because you cant fault them. Messi apart I doubt there is another player so influential in a team as Pogba is to us.
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I agree with what you're saying, but Hazard was just as influential if not more for Chelsea.
 
OrangeRed said:
Is it Pogba being ridiculously good or is the rest of our team just utter crap?
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Obviously the latter. As anyone who watches United regularly will be able to tell you he himself is crap a lot of the time, never mind the stats.
 
Pretty sure we had discussion thread few months ago that our only creative player is Pogba. And we have no one else that we can rely on.

This is why we need another creative player to share the creativity or assists duty. If we can’t get Sancho then we might need to change the formation to diamond and sign Bruno to be our no 10. Basically we need another creative player in our squad, and it’s should be in our must sign list for this summer.
 
What a wank thread. Man scores half his goals from penalties and 3/4 of his contribution over a 2 month spell. Anyone watching us over the course of the season can see he's not capable of a seasons worth of form with full consistency.
 
VP89 said:
. Anyone watching us over the course of the season can see he's not capable of a seasons worth of form with full consistency.
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Same applies to every other player in a United shirt. De Gea, Sanchez, Matic, Rashford, Lukaku, Mata, Martial... The list goes on.
 
OrangeRed said:
Is it Pogba being ridiculously good or is the rest of our team just utter crap?
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I'd say if the team is not performing so well, he'll be performing poorly but it is more likely he'll be game charger at some point, won us a lot of points with his contribution and if the team is playing so well, he'll thrive.
 
Its wrong obviously. Pogba winning the most possesion :lol:

But yes most of the offensive stuff we do rely on Pogba. Defensively we rely on everyone else busting a gut to get back while he strolls back like a forward.

Young made 107 tackles and interceptions, Ander made 91 tackles and interceptions, Matic made 81 tackles and interceptions, Shaw made 71 tackles and interceptions

Pogba made 65

Pogba won more balls in the air than some of these people so if you count that as winning possesion... Then Smalling won 102 headers, added to his 30 tackles and 26 interceptions he'd come to 158 to Pogba's 124.

Matic would also still be ahead of Pogba.

Shaw would be slightly behind and Ander behind too but having played a lot less matches.
 
No denying we rely on Pogba offensively, naturally he's not so great defensively but thats not entirely his job (nor should it be imo).

We don't have anyone else in the squad who could replace his creativity in the middle of the park. Having said all of that... he does take way too many shots (highest in the squad) and if you take away his penalty goals, his conversion rate is pretty shite.
 
Maroon Devil said:
Same applies to every other player in a United shirt. De Gea, Sanchez, Matic, Rashford, Lukaku, Mata, Martial... The list goes on.
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Ddg no. Absolutely no. He's been consistent over the course of a whole season for a solid 5 seasons bar last.
 
No denying we heavily rely on Pogba offensively. No need stats to see that.

The stats relating with offense does back that up, but the other unrelated stats though...

Like always stats doesn't tell the whole story.
1. Only one season, the recent one. Past seasons is different story. And I think that only counts EPL, not other competitions.

2. Pogba is our top 2 player that played the most minutes of games, the other being De Gea which doesn't count, so that helps a lot ranking/piling up the numbers high. Shaw, Young, Lindelof and Matic come next and we know no way those players will come close to Pogba's contributions. Only then Rashford next.

3. Rashford, Martial and Herrera can easily contest with Pogba for the stats, but then we know Mourinho just refuse to play the trio with many minutes or games during early half of 18/19. Martial and Herrera to the rescue halfway to the season, then Ole with all three but injuries to both Martial and Herrera, plus dropping Herrera for the contract issue meant they don't have consistent playing times to rake up the numbers.

4. Penalty helps skew goal stats.

5. A lot of players sudden decline like flies. Sanchez, Lukaku, Matic and Valencia are all players that can contest those stats. At least they contribute something the season before.

Take all those into consideration, I think Rashford, Herrera and Martial will also be that high.. maybe even higher if we count per minutes stats.

Seriously what is the actual stats, United player by player comparison?
 
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UNITED ACADEMY said:
Pretty sure we had discussion thread few months ago that our only creative player is Pogba. And we have no one else that we can rely on.

This is why we need another creative player to share the creativity or assists duty. If we can’t get Sancho then we might need to change the formation to diamond and sign Bruno to be our no 10. Basically we need another creative player in our squad, and it’s should be in our must sign list for this summer.
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This. Or 2 creative players. Like take a punt on 2 class up and coming players We might be a good team again with the right attackers, give pogba some actual competition in the squad as our best player, we are failing to do that. He’d be class in a really good team with other worldies sharing the burden. I don’t like him at all anymore though. Pogba got Jose fired more or less and even then still he’s still leaving this summer if he gets a big offer.... He’s a big reason the team is so unsettled for ages, he never does anything in big matches and he looks like he’s not really that arsed all while Still being our best player.... we are shite either way though : (

Glazers and woody out! They are the worst. Lingard out hahaha : /
 
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Rifer said:
Take all those into consideration, I think Rashford, Herrera and Martial will also be that high.. maybe even higher if we count per minutes stats.
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Looking at goals/assists, Pogba is slightly better than Rashford when taking minutes played into consideration. The difference is tiny, though.

Martial worse than both for assists, but easily better for goals.
 
VP89 said:
What a wank thread. Man scores half his goals from penalties and 3/4 of his contribution over a 2 month spell. Anyone watching us over the course of the season can see he's not capable of a seasons worth of form with full consistency.
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the shots on target misleads aswell. he had 105 shots and 50 on target, less than half. Which I would say is pretty shite for a supposed worldie
 
It's a misleading stat aided by the fact that our two most premiere attackers (Rashford and Martial) are still developing and go through phases of not even playing, as well as Pogba being a bit of a ball hog. I think he's a brilliant footballer but I don't think we'd be broken without him. He's not Eden Hazard level of influence and has never shown anything of that sort with us.

For example, most shots is a stat I expect him to be top at. He has plenty of lame attempts with Rashford being the next in line in the hopeful hits category but he plays less. The passing stats - you'd expect your playmaker /10 to lead in. Most fouls - Pogba is a player who loves being on the ball, and showing his skills, sometimes it's useful and other times it's self indulgence, so again, he's not really Messi constantly drawing fouls in dangerous areas. Sometimes he'll hold on to the ball just to tease defenders for the sake of it. Most goals - he took, like 200 penalties last season. His goal threat without pens isn't too brilliant IMO.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It's a misleading stat aided by the fact that our two most premiere attackers (Rashford and Martial) are still developing and go through phases of not even playing, as well as Pogba being a bit of a ball hog. I think he's a brilliant footballer but I don't think we'd be broken without him. He's not Eden Hazard level of influence and has never shown anything of that sort with us.

For example, most shots is a stat I expect him to be top at. He has plenty of lame attempts with Rashford being the next in line in the hopeful hits category but he plays less. The passing stats - you'd expect your playmaker /10 to lead in. Most fouls - Pogba is a player who loves being on the ball, and showing his skills, sometimes it's useful and other times it's self indulgence, so again, he's not really Messi constantly drawing fouls in dangerous areas. Sometimes he'll hold on to the ball just to tease defenders for the sake of it. Most goals - he took, like 200 penalties last season. His goal threat without pens isn't too brilliant IMO.
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That’s exactly how I feel about him. Objectively as a footballer on his own he’s class and he’d get into any team. He's unhappy here and not giving his all and he’s a leader... we can’t even get our marquee players to lead.
 
Went through this in the Pogba transfer thread. It's hardly a surprise when you look at minutes played and the players he is up against. Someone has to be top of each stat.
 
People love to shit on him and say get rid, because he's a bit of a prat, but truth is we are literally midtable level without him. He is the reason we aren't behind Wolves and Everton.

When teams stop Pogba, they stop United. Outfield wise, we are basically a one man team, and that one man takes tons of shit from both our fanbase and media, it's no wonder he wants out.
 
Who cares after what he has said recently?He wants to go. I want to him to stay as much as anyone but ultimately he will choose his career himself.
Apart from the Facebook crowd and the masses of twitter accounts he has been treated so well by the club. People overestimate how much said social media accounts actually affect a players happiness. Pogba has been treated like a golden boy from the board and by the ot crowd on the whole.

He is going because he wants glory, he wants titles and his agent is all for it due to commission.

I appreciate the effort but it's such a waste of time.
 
Build up, transition, creativity in the final third. Farcical that we rely on one player for all three phases of play.
 
He only came here for the money. His heart has never been fully in it. If we can get rid of him and bring in someone like Maddison, with slightly less natural talent but 50 times more heart and desire, than we'd be in much better shape going forward.
 
Yeah, but, he doesn't run around like a headless chicken and he doesn't have pashun and desiah!!
 
Champagne Football said:
He only came here for the money. His heart has never been fully in it. If we can get rid of him and bring in someone like Maddison, with slightly less natural talent but 50 times more heart and desire, than we'd be in much better shape going forward.
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If it's a swap and nothing else then we'll be much worse off. Maddison would find it much harder at United since the pressure wouldn't be the same
 
kouroux said:
If it's a swap and nothing else then we'll be much worse off. Maddison would find it much harder at United since the pressure wouldn't be the same
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It's hard to tell. Dele Alli went to Spurs from a much lower level and exploded onto the scene initially.
A perfect scenario would be Pogba stays and realizes he owes us 1 good season before leaving, and rips it up without any drama. But if someone offers £150 million this window then I'd still snap their hand off.
But it's looking like he might stay now as no one can afford him so if we could land a top central midfielder to supply him with what he needs like perhaps Kovacic/Longstaff or a top DM who will work so hard that it will take less defensive duties from PP, so he can focus on expressing himself more such as Idrissa Gueye then we might just see an improved Pogba.
 
Damn it's really Pogba FC. But Luke Shaw is POTY you know?
 
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Champagne Football said:
It's hard to tell. Dele Alli went to Spurs from a much lower level and exploded onto the scene initially.
A perfect scenario would be Pogba stays and realizes he owes us 1 good season before leaving, and rips it up without any drama. But if someone offers £150 million this window then I'd still snap their hand off.
But it's looking like he might stay now as no one can afford him so if we could land a top central midfielder to supply him with what he needs like perhaps Kovacic/Longstaff or a top DM who will work so hard that it will take less defensive duties from PP, so he can focus on expressing himself more such as Idrissa Gueye then we might just see an improved Pogba.
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Dele Alli benefited from a good coach and most importantly a coherent system that didn't need him to be the main man. Those conditions would have to be replicated at United for him to even have a chance to perform well and let's just say we're not there yet with Ole at the helm.
I'd be happy for Pogba to be sold if that is the fee in question because it could help our team I think (hope). I just think we need a new type of play where we're not depending much on inviduals
 
All these stats show is that he plays more than other players and that we play through him.

Imagine playing through your playmaker, mind blown
 
I saw something last season think it was Craig burley, saying he had heard that when he came it was only for 3 years then Raiola would get him his RM move. Maybe this last seasons half hearted play was to ensure he got it, or a move at least. I dont think we can rely on keeping him and expecting him to put 100% effort in and if he doesnt then we will be fighting for 6th again. Better to sell and spend the money on recruiting players who want to be here.
 
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