Westminster Politics

Adisa said:
People are suckers. Doesn’t matter how many times they have been mugged. Politicians know these things. They are desperate for politicians to tell them what they want to hear and will keep believing it. There’s no hope.
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It's the same reason Nigel Farage is still hanging around. These people are too lazy enough to do their research to determine what is actually happening and just read the quick headlines in the Daily Mail instead.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Cleverly says he won't apologise for £140m already spent on Rwanda scheme, saying it's already having deterrent effect
The government has already given Rwanda £140m as part of its deportation deal, even though not one asylum seeker has yet been sent to the country. Asked about this on LBC, James Cleverly, the home secretary, said he would not be apologising for spending this money. He claimed the policy was already having a deterrent effect. He said


So they've interviewed people who have attempted to come to the UK - but if they had been dissuaded how could they be attempting to go?
Fear of the Rwanda scheme - why should they fear a nice cuddly lovely place? And nobody's been sent yet and nobody will ever be sent.
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What's the source for this?
 
4bars said:
I always ignored the Rwanda thingy because i assumed that it was an agreement between assylum seekers from Rwanda to be sent back (that is very sad). But did i read right that it was to send to Rwanda any assylum seakers regardless of the nationality?
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I think you’re going to be seeing something similar from a lot of European countries. Italy, Austria, Denmark and Germany have all been talking about expediting the processing of asylum claims.

Italy/Albania is the one currently being discussed most, although the difference is that they are processing the asylum claims in Albania with the idea of them going back to Italy. In reality though, once they are off Italian territory, I have no idea how many would successfully make it back to Italy. They certainly won’t be staying in Albania if unsuccessful.

It’s all head in the sand type stuff anyway. There needs to be far more sharing of responsibility. Some of the more right wing EU countries will be trying to copy the Rwanda scheme straight away if they are forced to share refugees fairly.
 
Adisa said:
People are suckers. Doesn’t matter how many times they have been mugged. Politicians know these things. They are desperate for politicians to tell them what they want to hear and will keep believing it. There’s no hope.
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There used to be a saying along the lines of what happens in America happens in the UK 10 years later, if that holds true you should al be terrified!
 
Jippy said:
I don't believe that for a second. A chunk of voters no doubt have lost faith in the Tories' ability to stem immigration, but it remains a burning issue.
For voters who see it as a top two three issue, they won't vote Labour, they'll keep voting Tory and blaming the ECHR, UN, Sunak, liberal elite or whatever bollocks.
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I think you have to account for how many votes it also loses you, not only how many it retains for you.
 
Kaos said:
Amusing how these gammons think the second we deport those migrants to Rwanda, huge money wells start erupting all over the nation, and Britain then transforms into a land of milk and honey. Its as if those pesky migrants were the one thing holding Britain back from greatness, and definitely nothing to do with over a decade of Tory cronyism and economic mismanagement.They were right about it being an opportunity to invest in and help 'our own', unfortunately for them 'our own' refers to the Tories and their mates, and the rest of us won't see a penny of any investment.
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Could replace pesky immigrants with the 300mil being sent to the EU which could be spent on the NHS. They have literally no critical thinking skills. They will never see any money "saved" from a Tory Government just as the NHS hasn't seen any of this "300mil saved" as a result of brexit.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Guardian
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Thanks- hate unsourced quotes, particularly with the bollox swirling around on social media these days.

Eplel said:
I think you have to account for how many votes it also loses you, not only how many it retains for you.
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Fair point, but net net it's clearly a vote winner, eg the polls in favour of Rwanda etc...
 
Dan_F said:
I think you’re going to be seeing something similar from a lot of European countries. Italy, Austria, Denmark and Germany have all been talking about expediting the processing of asylum claims.

Italy/Albania is the one currently being discussed most, although the difference is that they are processing the asylum claims in Albania with the idea of them going back to Italy. In reality though, once they are off Italian territory, I have no idea how many would successfully make it back to Italy. They certainly won’t be staying in Albania if unsuccessful.

It’s all head in the sand type stuff anyway. There needs to be far more sharing of responsibility. Some of the more right wing EU countries will be trying to copy the Rwanda scheme straight away if they are forced to share refugees fairly.
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I dont see ANY country in the EU doing a Rwanda scheme. First because is despicable even for a government. And second because the European Court of Human Rights had ruled that is illegal. Do you think that any goverment even will think on trying?
 
Red in STL said:
Those days have never existed
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I think that before the 24 hour news programmes, there were only a few news broadcasts. Maybe 2 or 3 a day.
So, perhaps quite naively, we tended to tune in to hear the news because there was so much less of it. And it was mainly the major headlines rather than the plethora of news we have today of all kinds.

But yes you are probably right.
 
4bars said:
I dont see ANY country in the EU doing a Rwanda scheme. First because is despicable even for a government. And second because the European Court of Human Rights had ruled that is illegal. Do you think that any goverment even will think on trying?
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I think we were first movers on Rwanda in Denmark. I haven't seen any sign of our politicians being deterred by this ruling yet.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Even if we removed 5million migrants, there would still be no A&E or community centre. There would be no more money.

This is because the people they voted in don't believe they should have a community centre or a doctor's surgery.

So regardless of how many people we get rid of, their lives aren't improving.
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The town I live in has its population increase by 40% and still rising due to more houses being built. Schools obviously are being added but there has been no increase in any kind of healthcare service, no new GP locations, no new hospitals, nothing.
The same services are expected to deal with the increase in population while funding is being cut all over the place. So many of my wife's colleagues have quit as they can't deal with the increasing work load and pressure.
 
4bars said:
I dont see ANY country in the EU doing a Rwanda scheme. First because is despicable even for a government. And second because the European Court of Human Rights had ruled that is illegal. Do you think that any goverment even will think on trying?
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As someone below said, Denmark have already signed an agreement with Rwanda. Italy with Albania. Feels bad picking out individual countries but the likes of Hungary and Portugal may be asked to take a larger share of refugees.

This isn’t me trying to defend the policy, I fecking detest it. But I’m am saying that other countries are absolutely waiting to see what happens here.
4bars said:
https://fullfact.org/news/sir-jake-berry-asylum-seekers-rwanda/#:~:text=However, Denmark is not currently,deportations have ever taken place.

Didnt happen and after this ruling will never happen
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Not sure what you’re trying to prove with that link, no one has claimed anyone has been sent to Rwanda from Denmark. No one has gone from the UK to Rwanda yet either. Denmark haven’t gone ahead with the plan because they’re looking for an EU wide solution to it. Ie. All countries sending refugees outside the EU for processing.
 
Kaos said:
Amusing how these gammons think the second we deport those migrants to Rwanda, huge money wells start erupting all over the nation, and Britain then transforms into a land of milk and honey. Its as if those pesky migrants were the one thing holding Britain back from greatness, and definitely nothing to do with over a decade of Tory cronyism and economic mismanagement.They were right about it being an opportunity to invest in and help 'our own', unfortunately for them 'our own' refers to the Tories and their mates, and the rest of us won't see a penny of any investment.
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The plutocrats need someone to blame for the lack of prosperity in the country to avoid people turning their eyes towards them. Immigrants are the easiest target.

Problem is that none of the major parties can combat that fallacy without acknowledging that the former is the problem. And none of them are doing that anytime soon.
 
Maagge said:
What do you mean "didn't happen"? The Danish government is looking into deportations to Rwanda and did so before I heard any talk of it in the UK.
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There's some big differences, the Danish scheme was for processing, not deportation, successful applicants could return (as far as I can work out), the UK scheme is permanent deportation, there's no processing involved, they aren't coming back
 
Buster15 said:
I think that before the 24 hour news programmes, there were only a few news broadcasts. Maybe 2 or 3 a day.
So, perhaps quite naively, we tended to tune in to hear the news because there was so much less of it. And it was mainly the major headlines rather than the plethora of news we have today of all kinds.

But yes you are probably right.
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Yes you're right but they didn't really tell the truth much of the time then and that goes way back to before TV and Radio for that matter
 
Red in STL said:
There's some big differences, the Danish scheme was for processing, not deportation, successful applicants could return (as far as I can work out), the UK scheme is permanent deportation, there's no processing involved, they aren't coming back
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This is definitely true. We will see what this leads to though. For example, I do not see Italy deporting all of their arrivals into Albania, and then taking them all back again. There are a lot of countries in the EU with little appetite for immigration, but I’m not sure how much longer the population of countries like Sweden and Germany will continue to take in refugees without sharing the responsibility.

Probably a discussion for a different thread anyway.
 
Dan_F said:
This is definitely true. We will see what this leads to though. For example, I do not see Italy deporting all of their arrivals into Albania, and then taking them all back again. There are a lot of countries in the EU with little appetite for immigration, but I’m not sure how much longer the population of countries like Sweden and Germany will continue to take in refugees without sharing the responsibility.

Probably a discussion for a different thread anyway.
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I think a big chunk of the arrivals in Italy come in thru Albania via the Albanian mafia trafficking gangs, so essentially they're sending them back to where they came from

But yes - this topic should probably have it's own thread
 
Red in STL said:
Yes you're right but they didn't really tell the truth much of the time then and that goes way back to before TV and Radio for that matter
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Politicians have always put their own spin on things. But, maybe it‘s the distorting effect of time and nostaligia, I seem to remember politicians telling outright lies only in extreme situations (the sinking of the Belgrano for example) or for relatively minor matters. We’ve never had someone like Johnson who just lies as easily as he breathes, nor have we had an equivalent of this Rwanda scheme -a “solution” which, besides being horrendously expensive, cannot remotely deal with the immigration issue and is designed merely as a culture war tactic to fire up the gammons.
 
Red in STL said:
There's some big differences, the Danish scheme was for processing, not deportation, successful applicants could return (as far as I can work out), the UK scheme is permanent deportation, there's no processing involved, they aren't coming back
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That doesn't really matter as the current system takes ages to process people. So you're effectively flying asylum seekers to Rwanda just for them to sit around in an unsafe country and wait indefinitely. What if they're turned down? Are they flown home or are they Rwandans now? I don't think anyone really knows and that's part of why it's such a stupid idea.
 
Maagge said:
What do you mean "didn't happen"? The Danish government is looking into deportations to Rwanda and did so before I heard any talk of it in the UK.
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But didn't make any deportation and will not do any after the last ruling to the UK. I thought I said that I don't see any EU country doing this, didn't I? Denmark looked into it but didn't deport no one

My comment, which you quoted, was because @Dan_F said that he can see other European countries doing something similar. How will that happens when the European Court of Human Rights already said a precedent that is illegal?

Denmark maybe tried to start it, but surely he will scrap it after that

And @Dan_F , hope this answer a bit your quotation also. I don't see any european country doing anything similar after the ruling of the ECHR. it would not make sense
 
TheGame said:
Someone left the gate open at the Cnut farm.



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Jesus christ. Are these people really the best representatives of the British public? Having worked with the public for many years, I know there are some proper idiots out there, but there were also some with enough brain power to consider whether they had anything insightful to say before going on national TV to out themselves as a total cnut...
 
First woman doesn’t belong with the 2nd there, her idea isn’t particularly cnutish or stupid. CTF151/150 use them all the time.
 
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