UK Riots (with the exception of Manchester which has its own thread)

AdZzUtd said:
The large majority weren't, but I think it's unfair even to begin comparing student protests with what's happening here.

Sadly I think if the Police are to blame then it's not the bobbies on the ground, it's the politics at the top.

Police should adapt to the situation really, students shouldn't be kettled/looters should.

Sounds easier than it is, granted, but it's obvious now that these are just rioters/looters and so the level of police control should be increased. By control, I don't mean aggression per se, but I mean...feck I've lost my drift.
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I am trying to make you all realise the type of pressure and scrutiny the cops are under.

How could you define students from looters in the protests? You can't, thats why everyone was kettled to prevent scenes like this!

I am sorry but some people need to open their eyes. I am not suggesting one shoe fits for all, but I am saying the Police need support, not constant scrutiny from people with their You Tube evidence and bollocks trying to get them locked up.

This is why we are where we are!
 
RedSky At Night said:
Don't get it lads, you're all appalled about the violence, looting and rioting. Yet you take the piss out of people who clean up the mess the next day (for free). Fair play for them bothering to do it IMO.
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It's just funny, that's all. I totally agree that it's a noble thing to do, fair play to them for dropping everything they're... doing... and coming out to tidy up. But if something's funny, it's funny. There are funny jokes about Gandhi and funny jokes about Auschwitz.

I mean, jolly good police work...sturdy gloves...spot of lunch. Come on!
 
Chabon said:
A Tory Hegelian...that's a bit old school, don't you lot usually pretend to be libertarians nowadays?
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I cannot see how the Rule of Law cannot be the most important liberty, all civil liberties are man made and have to be protected by man, but if the police cannot ensure public safety and security then all other rights are severely hampered.

If we get the same scale of violence tonight as we did last night then nobody across London can be confident that if their property perhaps with themselves inside get targeted, can be responded to quick enough to see that it is defended and that they are kept safe.
 
on sky news that the youngest rioter arrested was 11.....

where are the parents in all this?

some serious changes are needed to address the 'shameless society'

fair play to the people helping out regardless of who they are - at a time when public services are being cut to pieces, when businesses and jobs are under pressure how many tens of millions is this nonsense going to cost??

scumbags pure and simple
 
Apparently plastic bullets were available to the police but weren't used. I thought they didn't have them in the first place.
 
Team Brian GB said:
I cannot see how the Rule of Law cannot be the most important liberty, all civil liberties are man made and have to be protected by man, but if the police cannot ensure public safety and security then all other rights are severely hampered.

If we get the same scale of violence tonight as we did last night then nobody across London can be confident that if their property perhaps with themselves inside get targeted, can be responded to quick enough to see that it is defended and that they are kept safe.
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when seconds count the police are only minutes away.
 
TheReligion said:
I am trying to make you all realise the type of pressure and scrutiny the cops are under.

How could you define students from looters in the protests? You can't, thats why everyone was kettled to prevent scenes like this!

I am sorry but some people need to open their eyes. I am not suggesting one shoe fits for all, but I am saying the Police need support, not constant scrutiny from people with their You Tube evidence and bollocks trying to get them locked up.

This is why we are where we are!
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I appreciate that mate and I get what you're saying, in fairness to me I did say it's hard to pick who is a rioter and a protester in the student protests.

But I think it's much easier in this case.

For example, the middle class people are holding brooms, clapping the bobbies.

The bad feckers are out at night, rioting through london.
 
buckooo1978 said:
on sky news that the youngest rioter arrested was 11.....

where are the parents in all this?

some serious changes are needed to address the 'shameless society'

fair play to the people helping out regardless of who they are - at a time when public services are being cut to pieces, when businesses and jobs are under pressure how many tens of millions is this nonsense going to cost??

scumbags pure and simple
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An 11 year old was arrested near mine last night for bricking and trying to nick a bus. We all know the 'family' (use that term VERY loosely).
 
At the moment it seems that any insurance claims submitted by businesses or homeowners as a result of the riots could eventually be picked up by the government. If the police or home secretary officially label the disruptions a "riot" under the Public Order Act 1986, insurers can claim compensation from police funds for the area affected. At the moment the only estimates of damage, from the Association of British Insurers, put the cost at "tens of millions" — we'll try to get a more precise figure as things become clearer later today.
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Oh dear...
 
The police have played a blinder IMO.

They sat off as much as possible, and now who look like the bad guys - the looters and rioters.

Who looks like the bad guys if the police go in tear gassing, water cannoning and busting heads - the police.

Now they can go in and bust some heads and the looters/rioters have zero public sympathy.
 
I can accept people rioting. What I can't accept is buildings being set alight with scared residents still in the building. I don't think many people would disagree that it's time for the police to take firm action against this.

Frankly the government need to be firm on this otherwise it could quickly spiral out of control and become country wide rioting.
 
Plechazunga said:
It's just funny, that's all. I totally agree that it's a noble thing to do, fair play to them for dropping everything they're... doing... and coming out to tidy up. But if something's funny, it's funny. There are funny jokes about Gandhi and funny jokes about Auschwitz.

I mean, jolly good police work...sturdy gloves...spot of lunch. Come on!
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Yep, can't deny it's funny. As Plech said, it's a great service what they are doing, but it doesn't mean it still can't be funny.
 
We are soft on criminal behaviour but hard on small indescretions like speeding as it makes money. The whole public services have become commercialised.
 
Team Brian GB said:
You should look up what civil rights people had in the Second World War, you should look at the restrictions placed on the media, you should look up the Defence of the Realm Act (DORA) from the First World War.

In all major wars, and in a state of an emergency, some normal and typical rights and procedures are suspended in order to deal with the situation before normal service can resume.
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The meaning of the gif wasn't to question that civil liberties were lessened during World War 2. It was about how you basically went "they took away civil liberties in WW2, so they should do it now", as if the situations are in any way comparable.
 
TheReligion said:
I am trying to make you all realise the type of pressure and scrutiny the cops are under.

How could you define students from looters in the protests? You can't, thats why everyone was kettled to prevent scenes like this!

I am sorry but some people need to open their eyes. I am not suggesting one shoe fits for all, but I am saying the Police need support, not constant scrutiny from people with their You Tube evidence and bollocks trying to get them locked up.

This is why we are where we are!
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You're not helping by trying to conflate overpolicing a student protest with failing to police riots.
 
Redlambs said:
An 11 year old was arrested near mine last night for bricking and trying to nick a bus. We all know the 'family' (use that term VERY loosely).
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he was the youngest person arrested last night they were mentioning on the news earlier. So tell me how respectable are this family. I bet they're model citizens who are shocked their offspring are doing such things.
 
Kraftwerker said:
The police have played a blinder IMO.

They sat off as much as possible, and now who look like the bad guys - the looters and rioters.

Who looks like the bad guys if the police go in tear gassing, water cannoning and busting heads - the police.

Now they can go in and bust some heads and the looters/rioters have zero public sympathy.
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True that.

Although I'm not sure that was necessarily the plan all along.
 
Kraftwerker said:
The police have played a blinder IMO.

They sat off as much as possible, and now who look like the bad guys - the looters and rioters.

Who looks like the bad guys if the police go in tear gassing, water cannoning and busting heads - the police.

Now they can go in and bust some heads and the looters/rioters have zero public sympathy.
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But while we have it established as to who is right or wrong, we have wide-spread disorder, communities broken, buildings, shops and houses burned down.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Interesting post, but do you think abandoning the attitude of materialism/consumerism could even work within a capitalist system? If people stopped wanting to buy things, if consumer demand plummeted, the economy would crash. Hard.
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Well the economy is largely collapsing as it is isn't it? And as a direct result of the "I want it all and I want it now" attitude coupled with easy credit from profiteering banks.

I don't think its realistic to expect consumerism or capitalism to be abandoned we're lumbered with it.

While we can't choose the society we're born into we can choose our attitudes towards it and our position within it, and choose what sort of people we want our kids to be.

Pogue Mahone said:
I agree with almost all of that, apart from the last bit.

When society is broken you won't change anything by handing out pamphlets on how to be a good mum/dad (or however else you would suggest changing the parental style of an entire nation)

A much easier and quicker solution would be to invest in these sink estates. Create opportunities for these kids, be that educational or just somewhere to pass the time that doesn't involve roaming the streets. There's loads of evidence that really making an effort to engage with under-privileged kids (the type of stuff gambit is talking about) can have huge benefits in their long-term outcomes. This costs money, though. Money which is being cut back further and further all the time, thanks to the economic cluster-feck that rampant capitalism has foisted on the world.
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Yep I agree that investment and options would help but I think they need to be coupled with a change in attitudes.

As you've said yourself, its not going to happen, and the millions and millions its going to cost to clean all this up is going to mean even less is available, not that the lads involved will give a shit, they'll have lots of new stuff to keep them happy (for a week or two).... thats the attitude that needs to be addressed.

How you do it I don't know, my guess would be that because its developed over multiple generations, it would take multiple generations to effectively change.
 
i think it would be a mistake to use plastic bullets....

despite the levels of criminal behaviour if the police were to kill someone (which is very possible with plastic bullets) it would give some sympathy to the rioters
 
Cutting Police numbers woul be political suicide. More backtracking from the Tories they are a useless bunch.

The argument against Water cannons is that its the British style of policing that works in these situations - I would say its the British style of policing that causes these problems in the first place.

Standing by whilst some chav kid throws a projectile at me is not policing. I say landmine the feckers.
 
niMic said:
The meaning of the gif wasn't to question that civil liberties were lessened during World War 2. It was about how you basically went "they took away civil liberties in WW2, so they should do it now", as if the situations are in any way comparable.
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Surely you can use your head and find a principle, I did mention WW1 and states of emergency as well. Basically, it is a well trodden path that the authorities in certain circumstances have to suspend some rights in order to protect others and ensure the return of peace.

That is exactly what a State of Emergency does, legal rights would go completely out the window.
 
We need another Australia. Find an Island and then ship these feckers off there to rot. We will sterilise them first so we don't have a planet of the Apes uprising.
 
gambit28 said:
he was the youngest person arrested last night they were mentioning on the news earlier. So tell me how respectable are this family. I bet they're model citizens who are shocked their offspring are doing such things.
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I don't think it's the same one, this was a small skirmish out on the Essex/Kent border.

It's a proper Daily Mail type story, we live in an ok quiet part but occasionally get the shit from a nearby council estate. Police are already doubling at our local Tesco's too :mad:
 
Somebody, somewhere has decided that 'robust' is the word for today.
 
Team Brian GB said:
Surely you can use your head and find a principle, I did mention WW1 and states of emergency as well. Basically, it is a well trodden path that the authorities in certain circumstances have to suspend some rights in order to protect others and ensure the return of peace.

That is exactly what a State of Emergency does, legal rights would go completely out the window.
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But will reducing mobile phone coverage, or taking certain websites offline, achieve an end to this? Very unlikely.
 
RedSky At Night said:
I was about to suggest getting our space program back up and running and lob the feckers on the moon :lol:
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Cost too much. I say let them rot on some island they don't want to be part of society.

Before I am accused of racism and any other 'ism' I'm just messing.
 
Camron's probably going to try and convince us the solution is to adopt a hoody.
 
Hectic said:
But will reducing mobile phone coverage, or taking certain websites offline, achieve an end to this? Very unlikely.
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Obviously not, but I would be a part of a much wider strategy to make it more difficult, and increase the pressure on rioters. As ridiculous a notion as it is, the fact it is supposed to rain across the south tonight will feed into that as well.

Though in a State of Emergency there would be far greater powers imposed, such as detention, curfews, etc.
 
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