A question mark shaped butt plug or even a train station in the German suburb of Glott perhaps?
UK Riots (with the exception of Manchester which has its own thread)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
A question mark shaped butt plug or even a train station in the German suburb of Glott perhaps?
It didn't take long for the right to blame it all on the usual Daily Heil targets did it?
Maybe I'm wrong but this item of news bothers me:
Bill Bratton says he can lead police out of 'crisis' despite budget cuts | UK news | The Guardian
Seeing as Bill Bratton is here - ostensibly to advise on the riots/policing - at the express invitation of David Cameron (and despites howls of outrage from police unions), I can't help but feel there would be, shall we say, a conflict of interest should Bratton get his 'dream job' as the senior policeman in the UK. And this at a time when the investigation into phone hacking would be taking place. So, we could conceivably have a man effectively beholden to David Cameron, in charge of the Met. Police...
This kind of comment from Bratton doesn't exactly bode well for a (potentially) clear and honest approach to investigations of all kinds:
The police are not the PR department of whatever government is in power.
Bill Bratton says he can lead police out of 'crisis' despite budget cuts | UK news | The Guardian
Seeing as Bill Bratton is here - ostensibly to advise on the riots/policing - at the express invitation of David Cameron (and despites howls of outrage from police unions), I can't help but feel there would be, shall we say, a conflict of interest should Bratton get his 'dream job' as the senior policeman in the UK. And this at a time when the investigation into phone hacking would be taking place. So, we could conceivably have a man effectively beholden to David Cameron, in charge of the Met. Police...
This kind of comment from Bratton doesn't exactly bode well for a (potentially) clear and honest approach to investigations of all kinds:
The police are not the PR department of whatever government is in power.
Statistically, single parent homes are not great for children, and goes hand in hand with poverty in many cases. Most kids(~60%) in the US with single mothers are at or below the poverty line. The number of single parents here is pretty ridiculous in some communities. It's not necessarily worse than having two awful parents who neglect their children, but it statistically is a worse situation than most two-parent homes.
I think he's trying to blame the "degradation" of the nuclear family, which is convenient because no one actually has to accept that blame.
BBCBreaking BBC Breaking News
Two men jailed for 4 years each in Chester for using Facebook to incite others to participate in #riots in NW England
Hefty sentences
Two men jailed for 4 years each in Chester for using Facebook to incite others to participate in #riots in NW England
Hefty sentences
Would love to see if Bankers or News Int. top dogs ever get a quarter of that.
Will we see their posts?
TWO men have been jailed for FOUR YEARS for inciting riots on Facebook.
Jordan Blackshaw, 20, and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, were sentenced today at Chester Crown Court.
Blackshaw, of Northwich, Cheshire, created a Facebook event called Smash Down Northwich Town.
Sutcliffe-Keenan, of nearby Warrington, also set up a page encouraging rioting in Warrington.
How gormless. Can't take that much effort to switch your brain into gear in a morning.
TWO men have been jailed for FOUR YEARS for inciting riots on Facebook.
Jordan Blackshaw, 20, and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, were sentenced today at Chester Crown Court.
Blackshaw, of Northwich, Cheshire, created a Facebook event called Smash Down Northwich Town.
Sutcliffe-Keenan, of nearby Warrington, also set up a page encouraging rioting in Warrington.
I hate those jumpers with stupid big collars. Fully deserved imo.
the only thing I am shocked about is how long ,it took for some to start moaning about the length of sentences.
BBC News - Some England riot sentences 'too severe'
BBC News - Some England riot sentences 'too severe'
Someone referred to the sentences being handed down(not just the two above) as being STRONG as opposed to HARSH.
Interesting distinction, and I think one a lot of people will agree with.
Interesting distinction, and I think one a lot of people will agree with.
TWO men have been jailed for FOUR YEARS for inciting riots on Facebook.
Jordan Blackshaw, 20, and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, were sentenced today at Chester Crown Court.
Blackshaw, of Northwich, Cheshire, created a Facebook event called Smash Down Northwich Town.
Sutcliffe-Keenan, of nearby Warrington, also set up a page encouraging rioting in Warrington.
Way OTT
That doesn't seem as consistent with some of the sentences being handed down to people actually involved in burning shops down, or smashing windows, or attacking the police. I'm not sure I see the logic in jailing two people for four years for trying to incite a riot, when the people out there committing some of the more serious offences are getting far more lenient sentences. Four years is no joke. I know a man who has served less time then for possession of a loaded gun. Another who stabbed someone was out in less time then that.
To be honest not really sure where I stand with this , at first I though excellent well deserved , but after thinking about it ,I do think the same.
4 years is a long sentence and for what , making a Facebook group.
OK so if it had of come off it would of been nasty , but it did not.
I am not saying they should not of got something but 4 years is a hell of a sentence.
I'm all for giving these guys strong punishments, but I do consider that as harsh. Four years is a long long time, they won't do that amount but it's still a lengthy sentence, for their actual part in something that didn't happen, I feel it's not the same as many of the people who were actually out there, or well, just with serious crime in general, it's not consistent.
I think 4 years for what's basically a speech crime is pretty outrageous
Yes, I know I keep banging on about the government, and it's probably boring other people to death, but...just look at Number 10's response to the riots:
* The stopping of benefits: already governmental policy & this is boosted by public outrage about the rioting/looting, so this crisis plays into the government's hands.
* Evictions: I assume we'll soon see deprived areas go the way of other (formerly notorious) areas, and middle-to-upper class housing take the place of council housing.
* The much-maligned (at least, by certain elements of the press) Health & Safety legislation: part of which protects the rights of workers, and guarantees safe working conditions.
* The equally-maligned Human Rights Act: part of which guarantees free education and the right to free elections.
Forgive me if I see through the government's agenda here but, as a working class person who's lived through several Conservative 'regimes', I view the above as truly sinister. I fear for this country's 'underclass.'
* The stopping of benefits: already governmental policy & this is boosted by public outrage about the rioting/looting, so this crisis plays into the government's hands.
* Evictions: I assume we'll soon see deprived areas go the way of other (formerly notorious) areas, and middle-to-upper class housing take the place of council housing.
* The much-maligned (at least, by certain elements of the press) Health & Safety legislation: part of which protects the rights of workers, and guarantees safe working conditions.
* The equally-maligned Human Rights Act: part of which guarantees free education and the right to free elections.
Forgive me if I see through the government's agenda here but, as a working class person who's lived through several Conservative 'regimes', I view the above as truly sinister. I fear for this country's 'underclass.'
I've said it before, these are proper Tories. They're not like Thatcherites, who basically wanted to destroy the class system and turn everyone middle-class. These guys are traditional status-quo Tories looking out for their constituency, their class interests. Especially Osborne.
[pedantic twat]Pretty sure the Sumerians didn't use papyrus, they wrote on clay tablets with reeds. Why don't people writing in newspapers ever do any research?[/pedantic twat]
This 4 year sentence for inciting violence will be as a warning to others. (I expect, and hope, the two sentences will be reduced on appeal).
Twitter and FB are fast becoming the main way of rallying a mass of people in a short space of time, whether they be troops, terrorists, partygoers, rioters, wellwishers or whatever.
Most people probably had no idea that inciting violence from behind the safety of their PC..no doubt just for a bit of a laugh...was against the law. Even if they did it's highly unlikely they ever thought that they had a chance of being found out or prosecuted.
They do now.
Twitter and FB are fast becoming the main way of rallying a mass of people in a short space of time, whether they be troops, terrorists, partygoers, rioters, wellwishers or whatever.
Most people probably had no idea that inciting violence from behind the safety of their PC..no doubt just for a bit of a laugh...was against the law. Even if they did it's highly unlikely they ever thought that they had a chance of being found out or prosecuted.
They do now.
It just doesn't make sense though and it's not right to use two people as examples for other peoples ignorance. I see what you mean, but the same thing could have been achieved with a two year sentence, or a year....I'm trying to think of other crimes that would land you four years in jail, it doesn't compare to what these guys have been charged with. My friend was out after 3 and bit years for attempted murder. How does that compute? Obviously it's not a comparison to other crimes, but I can't see the logic behind giving these guys the strongest punishments yet, when we all witnessed far worse from those recorded in taking part.
No you're not boring us... keep banging on SteveJ, it's good to highlight these things and counteract the agenda driven media...
Four years is scandalous....Bandwagon jumping, reactionary, exceptionalist, example making.
I've got a bad feeling about all this...That's a really dangerous precedent.
I've got a bad feeling about all this...That's a really dangerous precedent.
Don't know too much about the law Hectic but I get the impression that some magistrates are giving out maximum sentences for offences. Not necessarily because they are justified but to show people that offences can and will get more than a £50 fine or 2 weeks in prison.
I'm thinking surely this can't be an isolated case? I was in MK, and saw well over a 1000 twitter rumours based on nothing, some were certainly attempts to start a riot, or to create the presence and fear of one. Others were saying to meet up in certain places after a time. There must have been loads of other facebook campaigns which tried to do the same? What about the ones who did successfully start a riot?
I think so too, but this is more then that. I can understand the 6 months for people involved, even the guy who had a balaclava and bin bag who must have had many priors had 6 months, I thought it was alot for what is an assumption of crime, but I could understand it. This I can't understand. Maybe the sentences will be reduced, but it's still a crazy charge for a crime that doesn't reflect that.
Maybe people will now get the message that what you do on the internet actually is real life, not some kind of 2nd, secret life where you can do what you want without consequences?
I agree that 4 years is harsh though. 1 year breaking rocks would have got the message. I suspect it will be reduced on appeal and the judge probably knew that but was sending out a message.
btw whats the chances one of them posted on Redcafe?
I agree that 4 years is harsh though. 1 year breaking rocks would have got the message. I suspect it will be reduced on appeal and the judge probably knew that but was sending out a message.
btw whats the chances one of them posted on Redcafe?
Who the rioters? Or the two mentioned above?
the 2 above
Aah, doubt it, maybe?
You can bet there's a few looters on here though....
You can bet there's a few looters on here though....
Doubt they'd have even got prosecuted if they'd stood in the street shouting 'Anarchy in the UK'.
its not written down, hard proof and shouting 'anarchy in the UK' hardly equates to the same thing?
besides, the judge probably saw their profiles and stuck an extra few years on
I'm delighted with the verdict; what's wrong with making an example of someone to deter others? Seems like a logical move to me.
Ok, shouting, "Let's all smash down Northwich Town!" Even if they were caught on video camera.
What I'm saying is that far from being a safe, anonymous world, as you're suggesting they think it is, the internet appears to be considerably more controlled than 'real life' as far as speech is concerned.
Well, mainly that it conflicts with a fundamental principle of law, which is judging each case on its merits, not according to wider aims like frightening others people.
Having said that, there's an argument that this is how the law works when it comes to psychopaths. It's generally accepted that psychopaths at the far end of the spectrum can't really help doing what they do, their brains are set up that way. So by punishing them you're effectively saying, "Sorry, I know the concept of punishment doesn't make that much sense as far as you're concerned, but it might just deter another psychopath who's less far along the line and has more self-control." And I'm not sure I have a problem with that. What else can you do with them anyway?
Humans make laws, they're not perfect. If you want to stop people from committing crimes then they have to be terrified (and aware) of the consequences. By sentencing these morons to four years the news has spread far and wide, nobody will be in any doubt that conspiring to commit a crime isn't all that different from actually carrying it out. Incompetence cannot be a defence.