What are you talking about?
Rooney is a much better player right now, than he was at any other stage of his career before. It's as simple as that.
Berbatov | Fulham player
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What are you talking about?
Rooney is a much better player right now, than he was at any other stage of his career before. It's as simple as that.
Young Rooney + Poacher-Rooney = Current Rooney
Current Rooney >> Poacher-Rooney >>> Young Rooney
Was only a matter of time before he'd bring it all together.
I think I'm more surprised Berba wanted to stay... especially after the CL final mess.
He's now 4th choice and the manager has made it clear that Owen is a better short term sub prospect... so in reality he's more like 5th, with 2 young promising players nipping at his heels. Not such a good prospect if you were Berba
He's now 4th choice and the manager has made it clear that Owen is a better short term sub prospect... so in reality he's more like 5th, with 2 young promising players nipping at his heels. Not such a good prospect if you were Berba
I think that's quite obvious. People are now re-writing history and making out that all Rooney did that year was score goals, that wasn't the case. Rooney was brilliant that year too.
I do love the Rooney now though, it's certainly a different type of Rooney and it certainly helps him having a more mobile partner up front, without doubt.
You haven't really thought that through have you.
Seeing as the stats here: https://www.redcafe.net/f6/berbatov-240745/index49.html#post10290593... unwittingly included substitute appearances, I've done it again, excluding them. I've only included partnerships who've started 8 or more games.
MUFC starting strike partnerships, points per game:
1. Berbatov/Rooney - 2.31 (153/198 possible points, 66 matches: 48-9-9)
2. Hernandez/Rooney - 2.00 (30/45 possible points, 15 matches: 9-3-3)
2. Owen/Rooney - 2.00 (16/24 possible points, 8 matches: 5-1-2)
2. Welbeck/Rooney - 2.00 (16/24 possible points, 8 matches: 5-1-2)
2. Berbatov/Hernandez - 2.00 (24/36 possible points, 12 matches: 7-3-2)
3. Berbatov/Owen - 1.88 (17/27 possible points, 9 matches: 5-2-2)
Mentally, 4 out of the 6 partnerships average exactly 2 points per game! Only Berbatov and Rooney average more (significantly more at 2.31 points per game), and only Owen and Berbatov average less (1.88 points per game).
MUFC starting strike partnerships, points per game:
1. Berbatov/Rooney - 2.31 (153/198 possible points, 66 matches: 48-9-9)
2. Hernandez/Rooney - 2.00 (30/45 possible points, 15 matches: 9-3-3)
2. Owen/Rooney - 2.00 (16/24 possible points, 8 matches: 5-1-2)
2. Welbeck/Rooney - 2.00 (16/24 possible points, 8 matches: 5-1-2)
2. Berbatov/Hernandez - 2.00 (24/36 possible points, 12 matches: 7-3-2)
3. Berbatov/Owen - 1.88 (17/27 possible points, 9 matches: 5-2-2)
Mentally, 4 out of the 6 partnerships average exactly 2 points per game! Only Berbatov and Rooney average more (significantly more at 2.31 points per game), and only Owen and Berbatov average less (1.88 points per game).
Are you really comparing 66 matches to 15, 8, 8, 12, 9??
You do realize that most of the Hernandez/Rooney pairings were during squeaky bum time for example?
Stats make Feeky hard. Dont even try to argue against them
Of course, Sharky. But it does show that the Berbatov/Rooney partnership is nothing to be scoffed at, it has been repeatedly dismissed as not working in this thread.
The theory last season was that Hernandez' willingness to run off the shoulder of the last defender explained Rooney's great form. Now he's looking the business alongside Welbeck - a striker who couldn't be more different in the runs he makes - and all he needs is a strike partner who's "mobile"?
Seem like Rooney's good form persists irrespective of who he'a playing alongside.
You are back tracking, it has nothing to do with re-writing history, just a minute ago you said:
You were obviously saying that Rooney is not in the same form as he was 2 seasons ago, despite actually being in much better form, which will of course have an effect on his partnerships.
I'm not bending anything, I don't need to. Berba has had 3 years to show me what he can do with Rooney and in our team. Other players have shown me more promise of a great understanding/partnership in just a few games (Hernandez/Welbeck).
SAF seems to agree right now in all fairness.
Erm, was I?
I really wasn't.
The only man whose opinion that really counts isn't too pissed off with his contribution to the squad, otherwise he'd have accepted the £18m from PSG and Berbatov's feet wouldn't have touched the ground.
All this 'he's 3rd choice now', 'he's 4th choice now' is a load of bollocks in my view.
All this 'he's 3rd choice now', 'he's 4th choice now' is a load of bollocks in my view.
Right, and was Rooney in the same form in any of those three years, as he is right now (Welbeck), or leading up to now? (Hernandez) No. The difference is astounding. We can play all three Welbeck, Hernandez and Berbatov this season, I imagine all partnerships will be very successful, with the one common theme being Rooney.
So what is this meant to mean:
It sounds to me like you are implying Rooney was better two seasons ago.
You can't make statistically significant assumptions from such small numbers of games. Another inhibiting factor is that the top partnership had over 4 times as many matches as the next one to become accustomed to one another.
In short. It's not possible to state which is better, other than using qualitative parameters, ie observation. Clearly, using this method, the Hernandez - Rooney partnership looked as if it was potentially very successful, and if given the same number of games as Berba - Rooney, may have garnered a greater points average
I just meant that his form now isn't BETTER.
Just because something isn't better doesn't always mean that it's worse Hectic.
I think he is capable of playing with Rooney. Why should he not be able to? Although he hasnt really shown it a huge amount to be fair.
But when I have suggested at this moment he is 4th place I have been told he is 2nd place to Rooney's spot and is not in competition to Welbeck or Hernandez. It is not me who is suggesting he cannot play with Rooney
All you Berba bum boys need to have a meeting to get your story straight.
Obviously I really hope you are right.
His form now is much better though.
Not only is his form better, but he is a much better player then before, decision making, mentality, positioning, awareness, passing. All-round he is becoming a monster of a player, whereas before he was primarily a goal machine, with many other facets of his game taking a backseat to that.
Hence why I didn't.
Thats an easy thing to say. I'd guess the majority of footballers would rather play football whenever they can.
Berbatov's chance will come soon enough and he'll need to be ready to take due to the competition for places. Happy days.
And you need to fecking grow up.
Believe it or not, it's possible for a lot of people to have different opinions to you about a footballer without becoming some sort of hive-mind. In fact, there's obviously a lot of different caftards who manage to disagree with you about Berbatov and with each other. Mental.
It would be great to see RF's reaction if an admin changes his username to Berbatov only. His hatred of Berbatov is mildly amusing but mainly embarrassing. The sad part is that it all comes from the fact Berbatov was the reason why Fergie didn't chose to buy Tevez,
I'll wait until January before I declare such things. If he carries on scoring and playing as well as he is now for the next few months then you certainly won't see me arguing with this point.
I do think many posters do him a disservice now by claiming that he was simply "a goal machine" that season, it appears the shocking year of poor form that came after Munich has clouded many people's views.
Johnno Part Deux?
Oh no, some feck wit just did it :roll eyes:
And the debate was going so well.
Heh maybe you need to read the posts better then. I was just explaining RF's obsession with Berbatov.
You feckers just bring out the worst in me
Randall out
Randall out
Bet you'll be right back into this thread tomorrow or after the next match.
I read all the posts, I appreciated the arguments put across by Pogue, Hectic and Feeky, and then some fecker threw that name into the mix, once that has happened it aint worth debating any longer.
Are you seriously that retarded to understand that I wasn't bringing You-know-who into this argument. Both are completely different things, admittedly my post was a bit pointless and was there to goad Randall Flagg.
When Rooney scored all those goals 2 years ago, outside of scoring he started of really off. But, he was so deadly with the finishing that he was stuck to lead the line type and even lone striker. He had the touch of a Teveth in the first few months which lead to his overall game to be shyte - he'd misplace the shortest of passes and none of the one touch stuff was really working.
At the turn of the year, he started to get his touch back and indeed by the time we played Milan, he was not only scoring but, playing some of his best football. I agree during that short period leading up to the Bayern game, he was probably in as good form as he is now - only he was still playing the lead striker then so wasn't able to influence the game as he is now.
Berba has indeed been here for 3 years and they've never really struck a fantastic partnership but, there have been some games you can see where they've been almost telepathic when combining in central areas just not been as effective where it matters - right at goal. But, with Berba's confidence last year in playing the lead striker and Rooney now in the form he is in playing in the hole, with his touch being what it is, partnered with Berbatov, they could make some magic happen on the field.
Berba's detractors will say no way, he slows us down too much but, I disagree as he seems to love when we play the quick passes in and around the box. I just hope when he does get his chance after the international break, it will be along side Rooney - though he could also be quite effective with Chicha.
At the turn of the year, he started to get his touch back and indeed by the time we played Milan, he was not only scoring but, playing some of his best football. I agree during that short period leading up to the Bayern game, he was probably in as good form as he is now - only he was still playing the lead striker then so wasn't able to influence the game as he is now.
Berba has indeed been here for 3 years and they've never really struck a fantastic partnership but, there have been some games you can see where they've been almost telepathic when combining in central areas just not been as effective where it matters - right at goal. But, with Berba's confidence last year in playing the lead striker and Rooney now in the form he is in playing in the hole, with his touch being what it is, partnered with Berbatov, they could make some magic happen on the field.
Berba's detractors will say no way, he slows us down too much but, I disagree as he seems to love when we play the quick passes in and around the box. I just hope when he does get his chance after the international break, it will be along side Rooney - though he could also be quite effective with Chicha.
Finally someone who agrees, I'm not alone
It was a short period of a couple of months though, hence why I want to wait a few months before declaring the current Rooney to be in better form than he was that year.
Finally someone who agrees, I'm not alone
It was a short period of a couple of months though, hence why I want to wait a few months before declaring the current Rooney to be in better form than he was that year.
Thing is that Rooney's current form has been this good starting some point earlier in the year and not only been a couple months. The injury against Bayern really threw things and right now that's the only thing that I can think of that will derail Rooney, is an injury and then we try to rush him back.
But, regarding Berbatov - if you look back at when Rooney was in that good form during that period 1) Rooney was playing lead striker 2) Not even sure how many games together they played because at that time we were playing more 1 striker in the big games. Now with Rooney playing deeper instead in that form, it certainly would be worth seeing the two of them together.
I think its a bit disingenuous if you think SAF is rewarding the youngsters. SAF doesn't indulge players he gives them a fair crack to shine and its upto the player to take their opportunity.
I also find it a bit nonsensical that Berba in his time here has not played with an in form Rooney but playing with an in form Rooney - Berba would be his best partner. But if we take the opposite of this if we havent seen an in form Rooney then have we seen an in form Berbatov if so then how has Berba good form affected Rooney?
I don't really see an issue if Berba sits out some matches - its a long season and he will get his chance. I also think he will score nearly as much as Hernandez.
SAF likes to keep his options open and he won't let the side become one dimensional he likes to change it up.
I also find it a bit nonsensical that Berba in his time here has not played with an in form Rooney but playing with an in form Rooney - Berba would be his best partner. But if we take the opposite of this if we havent seen an in form Rooney then have we seen an in form Berbatov if so then how has Berba good form affected Rooney?
I don't really see an issue if Berba sits out some matches - its a long season and he will get his chance. I also think he will score nearly as much as Hernandez.
SAF likes to keep his options open and he won't let the side become one dimensional he likes to change it up.
He goes with who is in form and in a way he also knows that he can take a risk now early in the season playing the younger players because any points dropped now can perhaps be made up later.
The veteran players SAF knows what he'll get from them - so now he knows what options he has over the course of the season. It also may have had a factor in deciding on any last minute transfers - whether to delve into the market or to trust the players he has now.
I just can't see Berbatov not having an important part to play this season. He's still our best option behind Rooney as second striker (maybe Young might disprove that) and also in those cases where SAF wants to play a single striker when Rooney is not available, he'll still be the one to be called upon.
The veteran players SAF knows what he'll get from them - so now he knows what options he has over the course of the season. It also may have had a factor in deciding on any last minute transfers - whether to delve into the market or to trust the players he has now.
I just can't see Berbatov not having an important part to play this season. He's still our best option behind Rooney as second striker (maybe Young might disprove that) and also in those cases where SAF wants to play a single striker when Rooney is not available, he'll still be the one to be called upon.