Phil Jones

Great article by Tom there, and what a privilige to have watched our club for so long that he's able to compare someone to Duncan Edwards.

For me, the only one player I can compare Phil Jones to is Wayne Rooney. By far the most exciting English player to burst on the scene while I've been following the game, and Jones is up there with him, sparking the same kind of excitement.

But I’ll tell you this, the team in which he is playing in at the moment has excited me like no other team that I have seen in the last 50 years, so enjoy every minute of what you are witnessing.
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This part in particular echoes out to me, because I've said the same thing since I saw the line-up of the opening game. Coming from someone who's seen as much as Tom just makes it all the more special!
 
Anyone else think he wasn't that great at right back when defending on Sat? God knows how many crosses Petrov managed to get in the box from that wing.
 
gooDevil said:
Was Edwards anything like Zidane?
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Not in the slightest, my Grandad's favourite analogy was if you were to combine Bryan Robson + John Charles together, and you will have a player half as good as Duncan Edwards.

In more modern terms just imagine a 2 footed (white) Desailly and Gullit hybrid.

Basically a complete WC defensive and offensive player built like a brick shithouse!
 
Hal9000 said:
Anyone else think he wasn't that great at right back when defending on Sat? God knows how many crosses Petrov managed to get in the box from that wing.
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Nothing to do with his defending, Bolton's only game plan was to get the ball out to Petrov and he puts crosses straight in, not much Jones could do to stop them.
 
It's almost as though he was playing an unfamiliar position.

In answer to your question, though, the Football Ramble blog says 17 crosses came in from Petrov but he only had one shot at goal and one successful dribble in 90 minutes, which would imply that Jones was preventing him from coming inside very effectively.
 
I've always imagine how Duncan Edwards was like, how he plays etc. based on the information I've read about the legend. I've even gone as far as creating a player named Duncan Edwards in FM to my team to satisfy my own imagination. Phil Jones, coincidently, reminds me of my imaginary player.
 
Hal9000 said:
Anyone else think he wasn't that great at right back when defending on Sat? God knows how many crosses Petrov managed to get in the box from that wing.
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Me! Jones proved he is a great player with great ability, but a RB he is quite clearly not. It wasn't just the amount of crosses that came in, it was how little pressure was put on Petrov to actually stop them coming in which was most concerning to me.

I would not want that many crosses coming into our box against Stoke that's for certain!

I should imagine Fergie will play Jones centrally in the upcoming games alongside Rio and Smalling will hopefully return to RB.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's almost as though he was playing an unfamiliar position.

In answer to your question, though, the Football Ramble blog says 17 crosses came in from Petrov but he only had one shot at goal and one successful dribble in 90 minutes, which would imply that Jones was preventing him from coming inside very effectively.
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Or alternatively with him being left footed, it may be that it was fairly easy for him to put left foot crosses in at almost every opportunity, which Coyle would probably have asked him to do, especially considering the youth in our defence and our keeper.

I don't think Jones is a RB, as far as i know he has never played there even for Blackburn. He put in a great performance despite not stopping too many crosses, which suggests he is a fantastic talent but not really suited to playing full back.

I am not knocking Jones, but i cannot for the life of me see how 17 crosses coming into our box from the same flank, can be looked on as a positive. His talent would be much better suited to CB or DM.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's almost as though he was playing an unfamiliar position.

In answer to your question, though, the Football Ramble blog says 17 crosses came in from Petrov but he only had one shot at goal and one successful dribble in 90 minutes, which would imply that Jones was preventing him from coming inside very effectively.
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Granted he was playing in an unfamiliar position. How ever the media and United fans are highlighting how good he was in that position, when there was some distinct flaws.

Granted he was stopped cutting inside, how ever as a right back, you shouldn't be letting someone stick 17 crosses in.
 
apotheosis said:
Or alternatively with him being left footed, it may be that it was fairly easy for him to put left foot crosses in at almost every opportunity, which Coyle would probably have asked him to do, especially considering the youth in our defence and our keeper.

I don't think Jones is a RB, as far as i know he has never played there even for Blackburn. He put in a great performance despite not stopping too many crosses, which suggests he is a fantastic talent but not really suited to playing full back.

I am not knocking Jones, but i cannot for the life of me see how 17 crosses coming into our box from the same flank, can be looked on as a positive. His talent would be much better suited to CB or DM.
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I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would decide a defender is definitively unsuited to playing any position in the back four after watching him play his first competitive game in that position.
 
Hal9000 said:
Granted he was playing in an unfamiliar position. How ever the media and United fans are highlighting how good he was in that position, when there was some distinct flaws.

Granted he was stopped cutting inside, how ever as a right back, you shouldn't be letting someone stick 17 crosses in.
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It's a valid criticism. Wouldn't draw any lasting conclusions from it, though, especially in a player who seems to be learning and improving as rapidly as Jones.
 
gooDevil said:
That's awesome. When he made that run in the game day thread I said "Is that what Duncan Edwards looked like?" and someone said, "You'd have to ask Tom Clare."

I was looking up stats to try to tell someone Edwards developed faster than Jones, but 19 is when Edwards, according to wiki, came into the first team permanently and started playing in England's first XI.

And Jones was born on the same day Big Dunc passed away, 34 years later! Strange coincidence.
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Wow! Strange coincidence indeed.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would decide a defender is definitively unsuited to playing any position in the back four after watching him play his first competitive game in that position.
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Especially after he looked much better here than the time he got at RB in pre-season.

I wasn't excited to see him at RB, but I sure will be from now on.
 
Hal9000 said:
Granted he was playing in an unfamiliar position. How ever the media and United fans are highlighting how good he was in that position, when there was some distinct flaws.

Granted he was stopped cutting inside, how ever as a right back, you shouldn't be letting someone stick 17 crosses in.
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According to the guardian chalkboards, he made 9 crosses from the area to the left of the box, between the 18 yard line and goal line (ie, not from deep) two of which were in the last minute, and three of which were successful.

Still not excellent figures, but not close to the 17 that was suggested, the difference I'd imagine being all the corners he took.

The Edwards comparison is an interesting one, growing up he was the player my Dad talked about in kind of mythic terms, so I've always seen him as having that "never-to-be-achieved" level of greatness. Even to be compared to that man by someone that watched him play is an honour.
 
KiD CaNtO said:
Don't be surprised if he gets a chance in centre midfield.
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I for one will be very very surprised.

we have a fantastic holding mid in carrick struggling to get games at the moment. come the big games, he'l be the one starting. fletch coming back gives Sir Alex far too many options to play jones there unless there's an injury crisis imo.
 
Varun_Utd said:
I for one will be very very surprised.

we have a fantastic holding mid in carrick struggling to get games at the moment. come the big games, he'l be the one starting. fletch coming back gives Sir Alex far too many options to play jones there unless there's an injury crisis imo.
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Difference between Carrick and Jones is that Jones is much more mobile and has enough movement to succeed in our midfield. Carrick is static.
 
So Carrick has not succeeded in the past five years? This surprises me.

Jones is a frightening talent, but he is unproven in midfield. Yes, I realise he played here for Blackburn several times, but he is a natural defender, I assure you.

Carrick is still a fantastic option, please do not undermine his ability.
 
Yeah, Carrick could never succeed in our midfield.
 
I meant in our current formation and style that is based on pace and high tempo at the moment. Carrick likes to take his time on the ball, he doesn't really run with it, Cleverley and Anderson release it quickly or attack the space.
 
Sarni said:
Difference between Carrick and Jones is that Jones is much more mobile and has enough movement to succeed in our midfield. Carrick is static.
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Jones is unproven in that role though. There's nothing to say he'l be better than carrick in a role he's hardly played much in. so it'd surely be a huge surprise if he starts games ahead of carrick in that role as far as am concerned.

Carrick while not the best of movers, is a very astute reader of the game. he makes all those tackles and interceptions while going down very rarely. maybe not as appealing as how say a fletcher does it but as effective if not more.

The successful bit i dont know what to make of. carrick's been a key cog in the most successful period in the club's history.
 
Succeed was a wrong word selection. What I really meant is more like fit into current formation. He has definitely been a success although not as big as it's been made out by some people.
 
I hate it when I sound like a drooling mark but feck me. That Phil Jones kid is the most complete 19 year old footballer I have ever seen at United.
 
Sarni said:
Succeed was a wrong word selection. What I really meant is more like fit into current formation. He has definitely been a success although not as big as it's been made out by some people.
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How far is fletch from starting games fitness wise? i think it'l be him not jones that benefits from cleverley's injury if he's fit. if he isnt, carrick will and should start the next game imo.
 
What a fantastic article. Thank you, Mr. Claire.
 
Jones like Edwards. Hmmmm, cant help but be surprised at this one. I asked my Dad and he cant see it either yet. Similarly powerful he said, but nothing like Edwards skill and touch

From my own experience he seems more like a Paul McGrath - and thats pretty high praise too in my book

The fact that its even being discussed so soon into his United career shows what an exciting player we have
 
No matter to whom you want to compare him, but his play and maturity at 19 is more than impressive
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would decide a defender is definitively unsuited to playing any position in the back four after watching him play his first competitive game in that position.
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I don't recall claiming it was a definitive conclusion, i suggested i don't see any natural instinct for that role. Smalling has hardly played there at all, but seemed to naturally look comfortable defending in that role from the off, and we have not looked vulnerable when he has played there.

All i suggested was defensively Jones was not that great there, and your own stats back that up. However he still showed he has frightening ability on the ball and as a player in general, and that ability imo would be much better suited to playing as a CB or a DM.
 
MancFanFromManc said:
Jones like Edwards. Hmmmm, cant help but be surprised at this one. I asked my Dad and he cant see it either yet. Similarly powerful he said, but nothing like Edwards skill and touch

From my own experience he seems more like a Paul McGrath - and thats pretty high praise too in my book

The fact that its even being discussed so soon into his United career shows what an exciting player we have
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I really hate these type of comparisons especially between two players from a 2 different eras. Edwards is edwards and jones is jones end of. I dont know who is the best but we will probably never know either as football is a different game today compared with 50 years ago.
Moreover it seems that your argument is based on your father's opinion and memory - which is quite subjective to say the least.
 
I saw the Bolton game again yesterday. I stopped watching after that third goal.

I asked myself...Would my dad have said he looked a little like Big Dunc. I was going to ask either Topper or Tom Claire to post.

As I read Tom's article, I had tears in my eyes.

I watched every Pre-season match and every match so far in England. I told a mate...I swear I have not seen a better United side... May just be wishful thinking.

What a team we have.....
 
He's fecking great.
Still think he will play most of his games for us as a CB. It's his preferred position as well.
 
Godfather said:
He's fecking great.
Still think he will play most of his games for us as a CB. It's his preferred position as well.
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Undoubtedly. But for the present, with the recent return to form of Evans we have an overabundance of centre-backs and a bit of a shortage of fullbacks. Some people were worried about just that after the departure of O'Shea and Brown. The ability of both Smalling and Jones to slot in comfortably at right-back will go a long way towards closing that gap and maintaining quality in defence despite injury.
 
Phil Jones is Phil Jones -and the point of my article was to say that he is indeed something special. As I pointed out, it would be unfair and unreasonable to compare him with Duncan. There was only ever one Duncan. However, what is exciting me is the thrill I am getting watching a young kid who reminds me of the big fella'. Jones is going to be some player thats for certain, and I'll go out on limb now and say that he will eventually captain both United and England - that's how good I think he is.
 
TomClare said:
Jones is going to be some player thats for certain, and I'll go out on limb now and say that he will eventually captain both United and England - that's how good I think he is.
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Aye, he could be a regular in the England squad this time next year. So much potential.
 
Things are getting a bit out of hand now. The comparison of Jones to Edwards and the statements "best United team ever" are a bit far stretched yet. We have not won anything yet and Jones played a handful of games. Lets just wait and give them time to develop and prove themselves (and enjoy watching them) before we put even more pressure on them
 
I work with a load of Blackburn fans and that's what they said, every one of them. 'You've got the next Duncan Edwards there son', they said.

Nah, did they bollocks. He looks very promising but so have many others.
 
Although I have every regard for Tom's opinion and take it as a further endorsement on Jones, I don't really like these comparisons - but he sure is something to be excited about. The block he made on Bale at OT when he came from several yards behind was incredible.
 
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