Paul Pogba

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ArmchairCritic said:
He's not demanding anything, his agent is. Stop jumping to conclusions. What are you on about anyway in 2004 Fergie's babes weren't in their prime, having a top talent in the academy would have potentially saved us buying Veron too. Pogba deserves the hype anyway, he's a phenomenally gifted player and if you watched the reserves on Thursday's you'd have seen his interview and you would have seen how determined he is to make it here as a First Team player.
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Agents are employed by players to work in their interest. If he feels that the agent is doing his career any harm he can kick him out.

Anyway if you believe that kids should be hyped despite having yet kicked the ball at first team level be my guest. I disagree with it
 
Amir said:
I'm sorry, but I'm not letting anyone off at that. You can't seperate it like that - he wants to make it here, but it's his agent who is making the demands. Bottom line is, it's the player. He may be giving his agent a lot of leeway in the negotiations, or he's just silly and being led by an agent, but the bottom line must rest with the player, always.
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I'd agree with that but we saw with the Rooney negotiations that sometimes players place far too much trust in agents. This Raiola fella isn't Pogba's agent anyway apparently he's advising Pogba's camp.
 
devilish said:
Agents are employed by players to work in their interest. If he feels that the agent is doing his career any harm he can kick him out.

Anyway if you believe that kids should be hyped despite having yet kicked the ball at first team level be my guest. I disagree with it
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Messi had shitloads of hype before he played for Barca, I guess that was all misplaced. Pogba has kicked a ball at First Team level too.
 
Elliott said:
Well, then you're much wrong. For instance, look at the lengths he went to to keep Jovan Kirovski around that time.
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I suspect that there were more to that case then simply keeping the player. By keeping Kirovski we would have set a precedent which had the potential of change a ridiculous law which severley restricted the introduction of non British young talent. When one considers the amount of SA talent going to Spain and Italy on peanuts during that time, its no wonder why SAF had insisted to keep the boy at OT.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Messi had shitloads of hype before he played for Barca, I guess that was all misplaced. Pogba has kicked a ball at First Team level too.
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We've seen Pogba play and we know that he's no Messi.

Even in Messi's case hyping a player is never good especially considering that we are hardly top of the range in terms of salaries. One must never forget that this guy had already hopped clubs (Le havre) to join a bigger club who offered him a better salary.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
This Raiola fella isn't Pogba's agent anyway apparently he's advising Pogba's camp.
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I'm not even sure if that's better or worse. At least an agent may have some committment to help his client forge the best career he can. It's annoying when it happens with a Rooney. When it's an 18 year old lad, it's football gone insane.
 
devilish said:
I suspect that there were more to that case then simply keeping the player. By keeping Kirovski we would have set a precedent which had the potential of change a ridiculous law which severley restricted the introduction of non British young talent. When one considers the amount of SA talent going to Spain and Italy on peanuts during that time, its no wonder why SAF had insisted to keep the boy at OT.
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That's totally speculative...

Fergie mentioned Kirovski's work permit once or twice in his books. He never said anything about a bigger picture. They just wanted to keep the lad at Old Trafford.
 
devilish said:
We've seen Pogba play and we know that he's no Messi.

Even in Messi's case hyping a player is never good especially considering that we are hardly top of the range in terms of salaries.
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It's ridiculous to say a young player doesn't deserve plaudits for doing well, yeah so what he's no Messi and who is? You can only compare relative to the competition he plays against and at the Youth Level he's looked head and shoulders above the opposition. If he doesn't make it, he doesn't make it but to say you can't get excited by a young player is ridiculous. The boy's got it all, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll make it but it shouldn't stop people getting excited about his talent.
 
Amir said:
That's totally speculative...

Fergie mentioned Kirovski's work permit once or twice in his books. He never said anything about a bigger picture. They just wanted to keep the lad at Old Trafford.
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As I said, that's my opinion about the issue. When one considers that players like Javier Zanetti and Alvaro Recoba went to Italy on a fee thought to be less then 2-3m, Im sure that United would have loved a piece of that cake too.
 
Amir said:
I'm not even sure if that's better or worse. At least an agent may have some committment to help his client forge the best career he can. It's annoying when it happens with a Rooney. When it's an 18 year old lad, it's football gone insane.
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This was the key part of the article for me:

The Telegraph said:
Pogba’s progress in United’s reserves and FA Youth Cup-winning team has prompted widespread interest in his talents, but with the player’s representatives reported in the Italian media to have recruited super-agent Mino Raiola – who also represents City forward Mario Balotelli – to assist their negotiations, Ferguson has insisted that United will not be held to ransom by the Pogba camp.

“He [Pogba] has got an agent who’s obviously become a bit difficult, but we’re negotiating with this agent and we want the boy to stay,” Ferguson said. “If he doesn’t want to stay, then there’s not a lot you can do about it.

“We have an option on his contract that takes us into a year-and-a-half away, so in that respect there’s not a great emergency about it. But we’d like the boy to sign a contract and, if he’d like to be a Manchester United player, then he knows what to do.
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Looking on Wiki all the deals Raiola has brokered have involved the Milan clubs and Juve in some way so he clearly has good contacts there and who is Pogba getting linked with a lot, yup the Milan clubs. It could be a conflict of interest on Raiola's part and Pogba's camp is being too naive and placing too much faith in him but I'm sure Pogba will want to stay. He's a young lad and at the end of the day it's likely his camp helped him to get the move here so he will have a lot of trust in them.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
It's ridiculous to say a young player doesn't deserve plaudits for doing well, yeah so what he's no Messi and who is? You can only compare relative to the competition he plays against and at the Youth Level he's looked head and shoulders above the opposition. If he doesn't make it, he doesn't make it but to say you can't get excited by a young player is ridiculous. The boy's got it all, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll make it but it shouldn't stop people getting excited about his talent.
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As I said before, hyping kids is in my opinion dangerous. I don't like it especially if it comes from the manager rather then from the fans. In my opinion players should be judged on what they do at first team and not in some league were lets face, the level of football is very low.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
This was the key part of the article for me:



Looking on Wiki all the deals Raiola has brokered have involved the Milan clubs and Juve in some way so he clearly has good contacts there and who is Pogba getting linked with a lot, yup the Milan clubs. It could be a conflict of interest on Raiola's part and Pogba's camp is being too naive and placing too much faith in him but I'm sure Pogba will want to stay. He's a young lad and at the end of the day it's likely his camp helped him to get the move here so he will have a lot of trust in them.
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He had already done it with Le havre. What makes you think that he wont do it with us?
 
devilish said:
As I said before, hyping kids is dangerous I don't like it especially if it comes from the manager rather then from the fans. In my opinion players should be judged on what they do at first team and not in some league were lets face, the level of football is very low.
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So if SAF hype's a kid then it's wrong even though he's been watching Football for the last 50 odd years and he might know a thing or two. It's not dangerous at all for me, the danger is all the rumours and media shit-stirring that has somehow become part of the development of young players. SAF knows what he is doing, he hasn't integrated so many youth players into the First Team for a while so it's clear to me that we have a talented bunch of players coming through.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
So if SAF hype's a kid then it's wrong even though he's been watching Football for the last 50 odd years and he might know a thing or two. It's not dangerous at all for me, the danger is all the rumours and media shit-stirring that has somehow become part of the development of young players. SAF knows what he is doing, he hasn't integrated so many youth players into the First Team for a while so it's clear to me that we have a talented bunch of players coming through.
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I guess you do acknowledge that SAF does makes mistakes sometimes don't you? No Pls dont answer that.
 
devilish said:
As I said, that's my opinion about the issue. When one considers that players like Javier Zanetti and Alvaro Recoba went to Italy on a fee thought to be less then 2-3m, Im sure that United would have loved a piece of that cake too.
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It's lovely, but I wish you could base on some... any... facts!

United may well have loved for the rules to change and for precedents to be set. I doubt the Kirovski case would have been one of them, being a pretty unusual case, as he started with us thanks to a permit related to him taking courses at the local university or something.

I'm pretty sure Recoba went to Inter after we failed to keep Kirovski, actually. His case was dealt with in late 1996.
 
devilish said:
I guess you do acknowledge that SAF does makes mistakes sometimes don't you? No Pls dont answer that.
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Yes he does but if he hypes up a player and he doesn't make it, how do you know it's SAF's fault, actually no don't answer that.
 
devilish said:
I suspect that there were more to that case then simply keeping the player. By keeping Kirovski we would have set a precedent which had the potential of change a ridiculous law which severley restricted the introduction of non British young talent. When one considers the amount of SA talent going to Spain and Italy on peanuts during that time, its no wonder why SAF had insisted to keep the boy at OT.
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The Kirovski case wasn't about challenging any legal framework, no precedent would've been set.
 
Devilish is really a gift that keeps giving.

First he's been arguing that Pogba should be played, y'know hyping him up.

Now he's arguing that youngsters shouldn't be hyped up.

:wenger:
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Devilish is really a gift that keeps giving.

First he's been arguing that Pogba should be played, y'know hyping him up.

Now he's arguing that youngsters shouldn't be hyped up.

:wenger:
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He doesn't know his elbow from his arse.

Never had a positive word to say about United.

Supports AC Milan.
 
He supports anyone who spents the highest money in the transfer market.
 
Pogba hasn't impressed me when I have seen him this season.

He came on against Leeds and made one brilliant 40 yard pass, but other than that, he hasn't looked anything special IMO
 
devilish said:
Would SAF's cared during the treble, that some French unknown 18 yr old midfielder would end up leaving the academy? I much doubt it. The problem here is that desperation had lead us in hyping the kids and guess what? They are starting to believe that the hype is in fact the truth.

Pogba is at least 2 years away from becoming EPL level. SAF may convince him to remain by playing him more (lets face it, he can't do much worse then the current CM is doing) but pointing his finger to him, last summer was a mistake.
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What exactly are you on?
 
devilish said:
Would SAF's cared during the treble, that some French unknown 18 yr old midfielder would end up leaving the academy? I much doubt it. The problem here is that desperation had lead us in hyping the kids and guess what? They are starting to believe that the hype is in fact the truth.

Pogba is at least 2 years away from becoming EPL level. SAF may convince him to remain by playing him more (lets face it, he can't do much worse then the current CM is doing) but pointing his finger to him, last summer was a mistake.
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United kids have been hyped for decades!

How bad is the "current CM" doing?
 
TheReligion said:
Pogba hasn't impressed me when I have seen him this season.

He came on against Leeds and made one brilliant 40 yard pass, but other than that, he hasn't looked anything special IMO
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He's looked nervous when he's come on but I don't think that's anything to really worry about. He's a class act but I still think he fades out of games too frequently at the minute. I think that's the main reason why he's not been involved more.
 
TheReligion said:
Pogba hasn't impressed me when I have seen him this season.

He came on against Leeds and made one brilliant 40 yard pass, but other than that, he hasn't looked anything special IMO
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The club disagrees ..if people think you put a kid in ..and he don't impress.. .it means something your wrong. You cannot determine a players substance/current ability - after a game or two.
 
Aint gota Kalou said:
He's looked nervous when he's come on but I don't think that's anything to really worry about. He's a class act but I still think he fades out of games too frequently at the minute. I think that's the main reason why he's not been involved more.
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I hope so as I have heard alot of good things about him.

Striker10 said:
The club disagrees ..if people think you put a kid in ..and he don't impress.. .it means something your wrong. You cannot determine a players substance/current ability - after a game or two.
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I think you can determine a players current ability after a game or two with the first team. I think Ravel Morrison would fit right in as he seems to have far more confidence and self belief than Pogba.

As said, Pogba has played more but looked distinctly average IMO.
 
TheReligion said:
I hope so as I have heard alot of good things about him.



I think you can determine a players current ability after a game or two with the first team. I think Ravel Morrison would fit right in as he seems to have far more confidence and self belief than Pogba.

As said, Pogba has played more but looked distinctly average IMO.
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Well you clearly can't judge a player after two games because Pogba isn't average. Listen to the people that have watched him play a lot for the reserves and they will tell you that Pogba is capable of a lot more than what he has shown in these games. He needs time in the first team though before he will properly express himself.
 
Makki said:
And Paul Stretford is employed by Rooney, doesn't always mean that he has his client's best interests in mind when giving advice, does it?
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Remind me again, how did that turn out for Rooney?
 
Alex Ferguson urges starlet Paul Pogba to stay at Man United - ESPN Soccernet

Sir Alex Ferguson has urged in-demand starlet Paul Pogba to stay at Manchester United and has vowed to give the midfielder a first team chance over the busy Christmas period.

Pogba is attracting interest from a host of top clubs, including Manchester City, Juventus and AC Milan, and is stalling over a new contract at Old Trafford, with Ferguson admitting dealings with the player's agent have been troublesome.

French youngster Pogba, 18, only arrived at United from Le Havre in 2009 and Ferguson warned: "You don't need to chase money at a club like Manchester United, it will eventually find you."

The United boss added: "He's got an agent who's obviously become a bit difficult but we're negotiating with this agent and we want the boy to stay. But it's down to the individual also.

"Matt Busby summed it up perfectly, that you don't need to chase money at a club like Manchester United, it will eventually find you. If you're good enough, you will earn money and become rich playing for us, there's no doubt about it.

"You hope he gets the right advice. All the young players who remain here always do well. It's one of these situations that they can chase the money early in their career but at the end it's not the same as if they'd stayed here.

"It's the decision the player has to take himself, no matter who he is, about where they think their best future will be. He just needs to look round about him to realise that. But if he wants to go, there is nothing we can do about it."

Contrary to previous reports, which suggested Pogba's contract expires in the summer, Ferguson revealed United have a 12 month option on the present deal.
 
JayWalker said:
Yeah, my bad there. Obviously an 18 year old is not at all susceptible to agent crap where some of the older, more experienced players have failed. What was I thinking.
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Yeah, you're right, the agent is obviously running amok here, not even considering the thoughts of the person who pays him.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Yeah, you're right, the agent is obviously running amok here, not even considering the thoughts of the person who pays him.
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I'm a little confused. I thought you were taking the piss with that last post?

Anyway, I'd imagine luring a young player over money or more opportunities for another big club shouldn't be much of a problem these days and I'd hazard a guess that agents wouldn't necessarily be a 100% fussed over what's exactly best for the said young player. Obviously, I'm not saying Pogba isn't the one who's being difficult. Very well might be the case. But at his age, even if he thinks what is being said, I'd like to think that his advisors would give him the right advice. Wishful thinking, I know.
 
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