Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

[Amir]

"In training you would get abuse from your own team-mates. They would call you racial names. 'Eh, nigger.' I would think, 'Oh, whatever.' It's incomprehensible to people, but this was part of society."

This is what Barnes once had to say of his days as a player, in the late eighties. He, as I recall, played a big role for Kick it Out campaigns. Obviously his Liverpool allegiance is stronger, though.

 

[Badunk]

Just waiting for the posts from Liverpool supporters claiming that "if a Black man has said it's OK, it's Ok."

You know it's not a matter of 'if', but 'when'

 

[#07]

Forget decent, I've yet to hear anything that even makes sense or doesn't excuse racism from the defence of Suarez. There is no rationality in their arguments.

Barnes' argument that as Suarez admitted to using the word "negro" its clear he didn't appreciate how insulting it was is absolutely incredible. Thats the kind of thing you expect to read on RAWK...

 

[dicko]

"In training you would get abuse from your own team-mates. They would call you racial names. 'Eh, nigger.' I would think, 'Oh, whatever.' It's incomprehensible to people, but this was part of society."

This is what Barnes once had to say of his days as a player, in the late eighties. He, as I recall, played a big role for Kick it Out campaigns. Obviously his Liverpool allegiance is stronger, though.

That might have been acceptable then but it isnt now. What would happen if at training someone called Glenn Johnson a nigger?

If I heard a colleague talking like that in general I would expect action. If I heard a colleague call a workmate a nigger I would expect serious action, possibly dismissal.

 

[davisjw]

Barnes' argument that as Suarez admitted to using the word "negro" its clear he didn't appreciate how insulting it was is absolutely incredible. Thats the kind of thing you expect to read on RAWK...

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other. Much like they say gringo. It's a noun to them. It's not racist when a Latino persons calls me "gringo" - it's a part of the language/culture. Culturally speaking, he probably had a limited knowledge that in England you don't say that. And in Spanish speaking countries, they are shocked he has gotten this punishment.

While there is no room for racism in football, there is room for identifying both sides and culturally understanding where it came from. Football is an international sport. I think his punishment is extremely harsh, scouse or no scouse. I think a fine and taking some sort of class is far closer to the extremes of this punishment.

It's not like oh an English captain saying a derogatory comment knowing full well what it meant

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other. Much like they say gringo. It's a noun to them. It's not racist when a Latino persons calls me "gringo" - it's a part of the language/culture. Culturally speaking, he probably had a limited knowledge that in England you don't say that. And in Spanish speaking countries, they are shocked he has gotten this punishment.

While there is no room for racism in football, there is room for identifying both sides and culturally understanding where it came from. Football is an international sport. I think his punishment is extremely harsh, scouse or no scouse. I think a fine and taking some sort of class is far closer to the extremes of this punishment.

It's not like oh an English captain saying a derogatory comment knowing full well what it meant

Load of shit.

 

[Eugenius]

"Negro" isn't offensive ordinarily in Uruguay. Fine. Nor is "black" in England.

But if I insult someone, and they turn around and respond "shut up you BLACK" that is likely used in a racist manner. If the word is repeated over and over as Evra alleges then it is almost certainly intended to carry racial conotations.

 

[davisjw]

Load of shit.

Reply of the year goes to...

 

[Lance Uppercut]

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other.

Do you say it to "them?"

 

[moses]

The racism problems in Spain is not helped by addressing people by thier colour though?

 

[davisjw]

"Negro" isn't offensive ordinarily in Uruguay. Fine. Nor is "black" in England.

But if I insult someone, and they turn around and respond "shut up you BLACK" that is likely used in a racist manner. If the word is repeated over and over as Evra alleges then it is almost certainly intended to carry racial conotations.

All I can say is what I've learned over the years going to South America loads of times and personally befriending loads of Latino people. And from my experience, while he was obviously was trying to piss Evra off, he wasn't being racist - at least not 8 games worth. Being derogatory and being racist are different things and if the officials are going to be this harsh, they better specifically state the difference.

 

[moses]

All I can say is what I've learned over the years going to South America loads of times and personally befriending loads of Latino people. And from my experience, while he was obviously was trying to piss Evra off, he wasn't being racist - at least not 8 games worth. Being derogatory and being racist are different things and if the officials are going to be this harsh, they better specifically state the difference.

If you are trying to piss someone off by refering to their colour but it's not race related then I'm confused.

 

[Wibble]

If I ever inadvertently insulted someone or said something inappropriate in a different country/language I'd apologise.

 

[Red Dreams]

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other. Much like they say gringo. It's a noun to them. It's not racist when a Latino persons calls me "gringo" - it's a part of the language/culture. Culturally speaking, he probably had a limited knowledge that in England you don't say that. And in Spanish speaking countries, they are shocked he has gotten this punishment.

While there is no room for racism in football, there is room for identifying both sides and culturally understanding where it came from. Football is an international sport. I think his punishment is extremely harsh, scouse or no scouse. I think a fine and taking some sort of class is far closer to the extremes of this punishment.

It's not like oh an English captain saying a derogatory comment knowing full well what it meant

the panel found him guilty because Suarez used the term in a negative manner...so Evra will retaliate and get himself sent off.

what you say totally misses the point.

 

[Eugenius]

I agree that there is a difference between Suarez having racist views thus being "racist" and using racist terminology to wind up Evra. But there should be no distinction in terms of punishment since both are unacceptable anyway.

Pissing someone off by making reference to the colour of their skin = racial abuse. That should and has rightly been punished.

 

[Wibble]

All I can say is what I've learned over the years going to South America loads of times and personally befriending loads of Latino people. And from my experience, while he was obviously was trying to piss Evra off, he wasn't being racist - at least not 8 games worth. Being derogatory and being racist are different things and if the officials are going to be this harsh, they better specifically state the difference.

8 weeks is more or less standard for this offense. If Suarez had plead guilty and apologised he would have probably had most of the 8 weeks suspended.

 

[7even]

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other. Much like they say gringo. It's a noun to them. It's not racist when a Latino persons calls me "gringo" - it's a part of the language/culture. Culturally speaking, he probably had a limited knowledge that in England you don't say that. And in Spanish speaking countries, they are shocked he has gotten this punishment.

While there is no room for racism in football, there is room for identifying both sides and culturally understanding where it came from. Football is an international sport. I think his punishment is extremely harsh, scouse or no scouse. I think a fine and taking some sort of class is far closer to the extremes of this punishment.

It's not like oh an English captain saying a derogatory comment knowing full well what it meant

Yes but no!

A fundamental thing in a legal system is that everybody is equal to the law. What is illegal for you must the same for me, even if I'm a foreigner or a immigrant. Suarez and his camp needs to accept this otherwise there is nothing to discuss.

Is this unfair in some case's? Yes. Is there room for understanding regarding Suarez defense? Yes. I think all reasonable persons understands his frustration but the hard part for him is to understand that's irrelevant. When he accepts his punishment, apologize and understands that in England his using of the word "negro" was offensive he's forgiven and can move on. The sad part is that you think that some wise seniors in his club would help him with this but as long they also refuse to accept any wrongdoing the media and opposite supporters will continue to haunt him.

 

[surf]

All this ranting from the old pros like Hansen, Dalglish, Barnes, Whelan, etc., ignores the fact that Denis Smith was one of the 3 who judged Suarez. I used to watch him often down at the old Victoria ground, and he was an old school player, hard man defender who took a lot of welly in his time, and was hugely respected by the fans. He would take a grounded view of what Suarez did and is not in Fergie's back pocket.

 

[dicko]

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other. Much like they say gringo. It's a noun to them. It's not racist when a Latino persons calls me "gringo" - it's a part of the language/culture. Culturally speaking, he probably had a limited knowledge that in England you don't say that. And in Spanish speaking countries, they are shocked he has gotten this punishment.

While there is no room for racism in football, there is room for identifying both sides and culturally understanding where it came from. Football is an international sport. I think his punishment is extremely harsh, scouse or no scouse. I think a fine and taking some sort of class is far closer to the extremes of this punishment.

It's not like oh an English captain saying a derogatory comment knowing full well what it meant

Alan Hansen innocently used the word coloured. He says he didn't realise that it was now unacceptable. He apologised unreservedly. That is what happens when someone makes a mistake.

Suarez used the word negro to wind Evra up. He used it because he knew it was offensive.

 

[Heinzesight]

Yes but no!

A fundamental thing in a legal system is that everybody is equal to the law. What is illegal for you must the same for me, even if I'm a foreigner or a immigrant. Suarez and his camp needs to accept this otherwise there is nothing to discuss.

Is this unfair in some case's? Yes. Is there room for understanding regarding Suarez defense? Yes. I think all reasonable persons understands his frustration but the hard part for him is to understand that's irrelevant. When he accepts his punishment, apologize and understands that in England his using of the word "negro" was offensive he's forgiven and can move on. The sad part is that you think that some wise seniors in his club would help him with this but as long they also refuse to accept any wrongdoing the media and opposite supporters will continue to haunt him.

Spot on.

 

[Badunk]

I would love the journo, the next time Poyet is interviewed (and he will), to ask him "so, Gus, when you played football in this country, did you ever call one of your black teammates 'negro' or 'negrito'?"

 

[Red Dreams]

McGrath labels Liverpool T-shirt stance as shameful

McGrath labels Liverpool T-shirt stance as shameful - The Irish Times - Fri, Dec 23, 2011

LIVERPOOL’S DECISION to don T-shirts in support of Luis Suarez 24 hours after he was found guilty of racially abusing Patrice Evra was described as “shameful” last night by Paul McGrath, while Alan Hansen, the club’s former captain turned television pundit, issued an unreserved apology for describing black players as “coloured” on Match of the Day.

McGrath, the former Republic of Ireland, Manchester United and Aston Villa defender, led widespread condemnation of Liverpool’s increasingly isolated stance over Suarez and claimed he would have thrown the T-shirt to the floor had he been the striker’s team-mate Glen Johnson. The right-back later responded on Twitter: “I will support who I want when I want!!! There are a lot of reasons why I’m standing by Luis Suarez!!!”

Liverpool players and the manager, Kenny Dalglish, all wore the T-shirt, featuring Suarez’s image on the front and his name plus number on the back, before their draw at Wigan Athletic on Wednesday night. The Football Association is not expected to take action over Liverpool’s defiant show of support for the Uruguay international or the extraordinary statement released by the club in the wake of the eight-match ban and €48,000 fine handed to the 24-year-old on Tuesday.

The FA is keen for the findings of the independent commission that found Suarez guilty, led by Paul Goulding QC, to be published as quickly as possible, given the controversial and often uninformed debate that has erupted around the case. Goulding, however, does not work for the FA and the reasons may not be released until after Christmas.

Only when Liverpool have received the commission’s findings will their 14-day period in which to appeal commence.

Liverpool’s pre-match clothing at the DW Stadium has attracted criticism from several black footballers, and McGrath claimed it represented a devastating setback to the accomplishments of anti-racism campaigns. He said: “Maybe Kenny (Dalglish) is trying to make a statement to the FA but I just think it is in bad taste that he sent them out in those T-shirts. It would have been much better for Liverpool Football Club if they had have worn anti-racism shirts.

“It’s about respect. There’s this issue going on about respecting your opponents. It is actually a game. The game itself has gone too big, it’s about winning and the money. The actual element of football being a game has long since gone, it is all about protecting your interest, protecting your best players.

“There are a lot of children that watch these games and to have done what they did last night, doing their warm-up in T-shirts with his smiling face on it, having just been done for a supposedly racist comment to one of his opponents, is shameful for football. It puts the anti-racism campaign back to the beginning as far as I’m concerned.

“If I was in Glen Johnson’s situation, I’d have thrown the shirt to the floor. If that had been someone in my time and I’d heard the comments or I’d even suspected he was guilty – and obviously there has been a tribunal – then I would not wear a T-shirt with his name on it, saying all is well and good here.”

The Blackburn Rovers striker Jason Roberts also thinks the Suarez case transcends sport. He tweeted: “The stance on the Suarez issue from LFC has bemused me – are United going to print Evra shirts now????? Some issues are bigger than football.”

The former Newcastle United defender Olivier Bernard, now an anti-racism campaigner, said: “I really didn’t think it was fine to wear the T-shirts. I can understand the club’s side of it, but in society we can’t accept racism and give support to a player who has used racist words.”

The controversy enveloped Hansen after he twice used the word “coloured” to describe black footballers on Match of the Day on Wednesday when discussing the current John Terry and Suarez racism cases. The 56-year-old Hansen, the show’s long-time pundit, said: “I unreservedly apologise for any offence caused – this was never my intention and I deeply regret the use of the word.”

 

[The Azzurri]

All I can say is what I've learned over the years going to South America loads of times and personally befriending loads of Latino people. And from my experience, while he was obviously was trying to piss Evra off, he wasn't being racist - at least not 8 games worth. Being derogatory and being racist are different things and if the officials are going to be this harsh, they better specifically state the difference.

I understand where you are coming from but how do the FA going to differentiate a player who is truly racist and a player who makes a derogatory comment? How do you actually prove someone is a 'true racist'?

 

[The Azzurri]

In light of all of these some questions to ponder about:

Did United as a football club did any wrong in the entire saga?

In the unlikely event that FA reversed its decision, will anything happen to Evra?

 

[Mick1991]

Nail on the head from Paul McGrath.

 

[kietotheworld]

In light of all of these some questions to ponder about:

Did United as a football club did any wrong in the entire saga?

In the unlikely event that FA reversed its decision, will anything happen to Evra?

Perhaps Evra shouldn't have gone to the press immediately after the game, but I can't think of any others. The way Liverpool FC have conducted themselves is a complete fecking disgrace.

 

[pillory]

How do you actually prove someone is a 'true racist'?

 

[Edmeiste]

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other. Much like they say gringo. It's a noun to them. It's not racist when a Latino persons calls me "gringo" - it's a part of the language/culture. Culturally speaking, he probably had a limited knowledge that in England you don't say that. And in Spanish speaking countries, they are shocked he has gotten this punishment.

While there is no room for racism in football, there is room for identifying both sides and culturally understanding where it came from. Football is an international sport. I think his punishment is extremely harsh, scouse or no scouse. I think a fine and taking some sort of class is far closer to the extremes of this punishment.

It's not like oh an English captain saying a derogatory comment knowing full well what it meant

I understand where you coming from but a fine and some classes is absolute bull. You dont really learn anything. If he doesn't treat it seriously what good does it do? The cultural aspects of this issue dont come into the fact that Suarez used the word offensively. How anyone is questioning that is beyond me. Somewhere you have to draw the line or it just gets more and more convoluted.

Giving a fine is nowhere near enough punishment. The 8 match ban is correct imo. Suarez is a player for an English club. A nation where this type of behavior is intolerable. Yes football is an international sport but that really has little to do with this situation. This was not affectionate. This was not friendly. Suarez isn't racist but he insulted several times using a word that just isn't acceptable in English culture. Why is it so hard for you to get that? It doesn't really matter that in another country it means something else. He's in England. I appreciate you bringing some further light on how the word is applied in other countries but try saying 'negro' to a black person in America and see the reaction you get. I'm sure it won't be friendly.

There's a reason the FA has the rules it does. Suarez has to adhere to those. Winding up an opponent by referring to their skin color is just a low blow. There are many different ways to wind up your opponent. This one isn't acceptable. So why dont you accept that and stop trying to belittle what this event was?

The punishment isn't harsh. It's not tolerated. End of.

I really hope we dont have to keep going over this because it's getting quite old. How anyone sees what Suarez did as okay needs a serious gut check. We shouldn't be dealing with this in 2011 but yet we are. Suarez has played in Europe for some time now and I'm sure he knows what's acceptable and what's not. Please. Let's just be done with this and move on.

I hope you sincerely think about the gravity of the situation davis because although you make some fair points, i think you can agree that it's better to take a firm stance and set a precedent so this nonsense can come to an end.

 

[sglowrider]

I just dont know how they can claim it was just friendly banter? You don't make that sort of conversations in a competitive football match. It has to be a wind-up or provocation or he has got to be lying through his little brown teeth. ;-)

 

[gbgary]

f him and pool!

 

[davisjw]

I understand where you coming from but a fine and some classes is absolute bull. You dont really learn anything. If he doesn't treat it seriously what good does it do? The cultural aspects of this issue dont come into the fact that Suarez used the word offensively. How anyone is questioning that is beyond me. Somewhere you have to draw the line or it just gets more and more convoluted.

Giving a fine is nowhere near enough punishment. The 8 match ban is correct imo. Suarez is a player for an English club. A nation where this type of behavior is intolerable. Yes football is an international sport but that really has little to do with this situation. This was not affectionate. This was not friendly. Suarez isn't racist but he insulted several times using a word that just isn't acceptable in English culture. Why is it so hard for you to get that? It doesn't really matter that in another country it means something else. He's in England. I appreciate you bringing some further light on how the word is applied in other countries but try saying 'negro' to a black person in America and see the reaction you get. I'm sure it won't be friendly.

There's a reason the FA has the rules it does. Suarez has to adhere to those. Winding up an opponent by referring to their skin color is just a low blow. There are many different ways to wind up your opponent. This one isn't acceptable. So why dont you accept that and stop trying to belittle what this event was?

The punishment isn't harsh. It's not tolerated. End of.

I really hope we dont have to keep going over this because it's getting quite old. How anyone sees what Suarez did as okay needs a serious gut check. We shouldn't be dealing with this in 2011 but yet we are. Suarez has played in Europe for some time now and I'm sure he knows what's acceptable and what's not. Please. Let's just be done with this and move on.

I hope you sincerely think about the gravity of the situation davis because although you make some fair points, i think you can agree that it's better to take a firm stance and set a precedent so this nonsense can come to an end.

Again, I absolutely don't believe it was a racist comment.

The classes I am referring to would be "Introduction to the English Culture". It would be mandatory for all new players from outside of England. Anyone who has been to any country has seen foreigners make absolute fools of themselves because they do not know the culture. It's ignorance. But you can't expect someone to come into a country and know all the ins and outs.

As I've stated before, I know people who are Latino, I'm married to one, and I have seen them all refer to black people as negro and white people as gringo. To friends, family, and strangers. It's a descriptive noun. It's not racist to them.

I'm sorry but I do not at all believe that in 10 years of playing professionally, Suarez has randomly decided to come out with a racist comment. He has no history of it and he has been seen countless times with black friends. So magically he's now racist and throws out a racist word? I can understand if, like in the case of Terry, those allegations have followed him for awhile. But that's simply not the case here.

His equivalent of negro is our equivalent of wanker - meant to rile someone up, but not meant as an extreme.

And I am not defending Suarez as a man, I think he's vile from the handball at the WC. I'm just defending the misunderstanding of one culture and another.

I have also played with many Latinos in a game of kick about. And I have been called gringo many times - both in a friendly way and in a bantering way. I didn't take it as racism because it simply isn't.

Should he get punished? Sure, make an example out of him. Does he deserve eight bloody games? No. Not with the proof we have.

It would of been far easier to just say sorry and move on, but when it comes to racism, like Terry, you fight it. If someone mistook me for being racist, I wouldn't apologize and move on. I'd fight it tooth and nail. That's your reputation.

And just as an experiment I told my wife about it without mentioning names or teams, just the scenario and she didn't find anything wrong with it. Not that it's final judgment or it holds weight, but ask Latino people to gain a different perspective.

Is the comment punishable? Yes. But I don't think it was racist. I think it was a comment that was misplaced but then twisted out of context by the FA to show up Blatter. "See, we are hard on racism in England, not like FIFA."

But I respect your views and the views of others on here. Part of the wonder of this forum is that you get understandings and perspectives outside of your own. While I can't bring many new perspectives outside of my own judgment, this time I can bring a cultural perspective.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other. Much like they say gringo. It's a noun to them. It's not racist when a Latino persons calls me "gringo" - it's a part of the language/culture. Culturally speaking, he probably had a limited knowledge that in England you don't say that. And in Spanish speaking countries, they are shocked he has gotten this punishment.

Then he'd be a complete fecking idiot. You don't live in Europe for 4 years and not know such a thing unless you're a complete fecking idiot.

The desperation to clear of man who has gone as far as biting an opponent on the shoulder is astounding. He used to term as it was intended - to incite a black man. He used it as a weapon and has been punished for doing so. I think he got off lightly.

 

[gooDevil]

As a man who has a Colombian wife, negro is how you say black and they say it to each other. Much like they say gringo. It's a noun to them. It's not racist when a Latino persons calls me "gringo" - it's a part of the language/culture. Culturally speaking, he probably had a limited knowledge that in England you don't say that. And in Spanish speaking countries, they are shocked he has gotten this punishment.

While there is no room for racism in football, there is room for identifying both sides and culturally understanding where it came from. Football is an international sport. I think his punishment is extremely harsh, scouse or no scouse. I think a fine and taking some sort of class is far closer to the extremes of this punishment.

It's not like oh an English captain saying a derogatory comment knowing full well what it meant

All I can say is what I've learned over the years going to South America loads of times and personally befriending loads of Latino people. And from my experience, while he was obviously was trying to piss Evra off, he wasn't being racist - at least not 8 games worth. Being derogatory and being racist are different things and if the officials are going to be this harsh, they better specifically state the difference.

Again, I absolutely don't believe it was a racist comment.

The classes I am referring to would be "Introduction to the English Culture". It would be mandatory for all new players from outside of England. Anyone who has been to any country has seen foreigners make absolute fools of themselves because they do not know the culture. It's ignorance. But you can't expect someone to come into a country and know all the ins and outs.

As I've stated before, I know people who are Latino, I'm married to one, and I have seen them all refer to black people as negro and white people as gringo. To friends, family, and strangers. It's a descriptive noun. It's not racist to them.

I'm sorry but I do not at all believe that in 10 years of playing professionally, Suarez has randomly decided to come out with a racist comment. He has no history of it and he has been seen countless times with black friends. So magically he's now racist and throws out a racist word? I can understand if, like in the case of Terry, those allegations have followed him for awhile. But that's simply not the case here.

His equivalent of negro is our equivalent of wanker - meant to rile someone up, but not meant as an extreme.

And I am not defending Suarez as a man, I think he's vile from the handball at the WC. I'm just defending the misunderstanding of one culture and another.

I have also played with many Latinos in a game of kick about. And I have been called gringo many times - both in a friendly way and in a bantering way. I didn't take it as racism because it simply isn't.

Should he get punished? Sure, make an example out of him. Does he deserve eight bloody games? No. Not with the proof we have.

It would of been far easier to just say sorry and move on, but when it comes to racism, like Terry, you fight it. If someone mistook me for being racist, I wouldn't apologize and move on. I'd fight it tooth and nail. That's your reputation.

And just as an experiment I told my wife about it without mentioning names or teams, just the scenario and she didn't find anything wrong with it. Not that it's final judgment or it holds weight, but ask Latino people to gain a different perspective.

Is the comment punishable? Yes. But I don't think it was racist. I think it was a comment that was misplaced but then twisted out of context by the FA to show up Blatter. "See, we are hard on racism in England, not like FIFA."

But I respect your views and the views of others on here. Part of the wonder of this forum is that you get understandings and perspectives outside of your own. While I can't bring many new perspectives outside of my own judgment, this time I can bring a cultural perspective.

It's really simple. Suarez was making reference to Evra's race, that you agree with. He was trying to wind him up, that you agree with. Thus he was using a reference to his race to wind him up, that's what the charge is, that's what's not allowed. End of.

As far as your perspective of racism in South and Central America, my understanding from studying the issue in college is that you're quite wrong. I found it interesting to see how the norms of racism change from county to country, but there ARE norms of racism in every country.

Yes, you can go up to a stranger and make a reference to them being black and not offend them. It's also very easy to do it in an offensive way.

I could very easily say I've been all over America and been called a 'gringo', 'cracker' and 'white trash' and wasn't offended, heard people called 'black' without offense so there's no racism in America. But I would be wrong.

 

[dev1l]

8 games is too much imo...

This is getting ridiculous and people are using double standards overhere. I know it's the scousers but this will create a dangerous precedent.
Come, next march and the fa will find an excuse to ban rooney or nani like they did when wayne uttered the 'f***' world.
Time will tell and you never know what these clown will come up with, in order to cover up their incompetence in handling more important issues.

 

[Edmeiste]

The classes I am referring to would be "Introduction to the English Culture". It would be mandatory for all new players from outside of England. Anyone who has been to any country has seen foreigners make absolute fools of themselves because they do not know the culture. It's ignorance. But you can't expect someone to come into a country and know all the ins and outs.

The classes don't sound like a bad idea. The premise is though, at the very least, he should know better than trying to incite Evra in that manner.

As I've stated before, I know people who are Latino, I'm married to one, and I have seen them all refer to black people as negro and white people as gringo. To friends, family, and strangers. It's a descriptive noun. It's not racist to them.

The problem here is context. Saying 'negro' to a black person in the United States is not acceptable. In fact, it will get you in a lot of trouble. The US is very similar to England so maybe you should think of it that way. The word negro in English has negative connotations because it's referring to the days of slavery. It's what white slavemasters called blacks along with the n word to belittle them. Suarez is coming into a type of environment where saying 'negro' to someone does not come across as friendly at all. Especially when they're not of the same skin color.

I'm sorry but I do not at all believe that in 10 years of playing professionally, Suarez has randomly decided to come out with a racist comment. He has no history of it and he has been seen countless times with black friends. So magically he's now racist and throws out a racist word? I can understand if, like in the case of Terry, those allegations have followed him for awhile. But that's simply not the case here.

Again, not saying Suarez is racist but you have to take into account the word and where it's used. I can guarantee that because of the connotations of the word 'negro' in English, it comes across as racist. Try explaining to a black person who is only familiar with English version of 'negro' that it's not a racial term and you'll encounter problems.

His equivalent of negro is our equivalent of wanker - meant to rile someone up, but not meant as an extreme.

And I am not defending Suarez as a man, I think he's vile from the handball at the WC. I'm just defending the misunderstanding of one culture and another.

I dont think it's a misunderstanding. It's a matter of context. In one setting, it means this, in another, it means something else. That's the key really. Suarez is getting punished so severely because he's in England and they're going to rule according to the rules in England regardless of how the word is perceived differently in other cultures.

I have also played with many Latinos in a game of kick about. And I have been called gringo many times - both in a friendly way and in a bantering way. I didn't take it as racism because it simply isn't.

You yourself have said that being called gringo is not racist so not sure what the issue is. I think there would be a problem if they were doing it to incite you. Doesn't make them racist but they're looking to cause trouble.

Should he get punished? Sure, make an example out of him. Does he deserve eight bloody games? No. Not with the proof we have.

How do you know this? We havent seen the full details. Come back if the FA's evidence is actually insufficient. Based on the time they spent on this, it seems they had a lot to consider.

And just as an experiment I told my wife about it without mentioning names or teams, just the scenario and she didn't find anything wrong with it. Not that it's final judgment or it holds weight, but ask Latino people to gain a different perspective.

Once again, getting a different perspective is nice but it doesn't change the situation at all. If this took place in a spanish-speaking country and Suarez got an 8 match ban, that would be ridiculous but that's besides the point.

Is the comment punishable? Yes. But I don't think it was racist. I think it was a comment that was misplaced but then twisted out of context by the FA to show up Blatter. "See, we are hard on racism in England, not like FIFA."

Cmon mate you're being silly now. Bringing FIFA into it. This was heard by an independent panel. I'm sure they cared about showing FIFA what it means to make a decision. There's no place for that word in English football. You have to accept that. It comes with different connotations and does not mean the same thing if you were in Mexico or some other spanish-speaking country that it does compared to a nation that speaks English and also has a past with racism. That plays a huge factor as well. It's not the same.

But I respect your views and the views of others on here. Part of the wonder of this forum is that you get understandings and perspectives outside of your own. While I can't bring many new perspectives outside of my own judgment, this time I can bring a cultural perspective.

Cultural perspectives are always appreciated but honestly, it doesn't do much here. All it shows is what 'negro' means in other places. Even though Suarez grew up in that type of background, the way he used the word was far from a friendly manner. No one can deny that. Suarez was wrong in this situation. Everyone should accept that. Poyet and his Uruguayan compatriots can scream about it all day long but it doesn't change the fact that in England, using such language on the football pitch or anywhere is unacceptable.

I respect your views as well but I'm trying to get you to see that even though 'negro' means something else in another place, doesn't mean it carries over to somewhere else. In this case, Suarez offended Evra by repeatedly calling him "negro" which as I said before is not acceptable in England. Even though to Suarez, it's a friendly term or at least a harmless one, he doesn't get that leeway here. That's really the difference. It seems unfair but you have to draw the line somewhere. Mixing in the cultural aspects to any situation like this makes it quite convoluted.

 

[swooshboy]

8 games is too much imo...

This is getting ridiculous and people are using double standards overhere. I know it's the scousers but this will create a dangerous precedent.
Come, next march and the fa will find an excuse to ban rooney or nani like they did when wayne uttered the 'f***' world.
Time will tell and you never know what these clown will come up with, in order to cover up their incompetence in handling more important issues.

Nonsense.

If the precedent this creates is that anyone who is found guilty of using a racial term in an offensive way receives a similar punishment, then this is a good thing.

You cannot have a "kick racism out of football campaign" and then shy away from enforcing the punishments.

Which is why I find Liverpool's stance so ridiculous and offensive.

 

[Edmeiste]

8 games is too much imo...

This is getting ridiculous and people are using double standards overhere. I know it's the scousers but this will create a dangerous precedent.
Come, next march and the fa will find an excuse to ban rooney or nani like they did when wayne uttered the 'f***' world.
Time will tell and you never know what these clown will come up with, in order to cover up their incompetence in handling more important issues.

based on what?

 

[kps88]

Made me chuckle -

The FA have handed Andy Carroll an eight-game run in the Liverpool first-team. The club are set to appeal.

 

[Rowem]

As I've stated before, I know people who are Latino, I'm married to one, and I have seen them all refer to black people as negro and white people as gringo. To friends, family, and strangers. It's a descriptive noun. It's not racist to them.

The word itself isn't what makes it racist, it's the usage of that word. I can't imagine what reason Suarez had to use it merely as a descriptive noun midway through a United vs. Liverpool derby?

"Hey Patrice, I've just noticed that you're a black man"
or
"Hello my opponent who just so happens to be a black man, did you watch the Graham Norton Show last night?"

If he's using the colour of his skin to deliberately rile him it is racist even if the word itself isn't. It's about intent/meaning/delivery, and that is universal. Suarez wasn't innocently using the word even though the word can be used innocently.

 

[redman5]

Again, I absolutely don't believe it was a racist comment.

The classes I am referring to would be "Introduction to the English Culture". It would be mandatory for all new players from outside of England. Anyone who has been to any country has seen foreigners make absolute fools of themselves because they do not know the culture. It's ignorance. But you can't expect someone to come into a country and know all the ins and outs.

As I've stated before, I know people who are Latino, I'm married to one, and I have seen them all refer to black people as negro and white people as gringo. To friends, family, and strangers. It's a descriptive noun. It's not racist to them.

I'm sorry but I do not at all believe that in 10 years of playing professionally, Suarez has randomly decided to come out with a racist comment. He has no history of it and he has been seen countless times with black friends. So magically he's now racist and throws out a racist word? I can understand if, like in the case of Terry, those allegations have followed him for awhile. But that's simply not the case here.

His equivalent of negro is our equivalent of wanker - meant to rile someone up, but not meant as an extreme.

And I am not defending Suarez as a man, I think he's vile from the handball at the WC. I'm just defending the misunderstanding of one culture and another.

I have also played with many Latinos in a game of kick about. And I have been called gringo many times - both in a friendly way and in a bantering way. I didn't take it as racism because it simply isn't.

Should he get punished? Sure, make an example out of him. Does he deserve eight bloody games? No. Not with the proof we have.

It would of been far easier to just say sorry and move on, but when it comes to racism, like Terry, you fight it. If someone mistook me for being racist, I wouldn't apologize and move on. I'd fight it tooth and nail. That's your reputation.

And just as an experiment I told my wife about it without mentioning names or teams, just the scenario and she didn't find anything wrong with it. Not that it's final judgment or it holds weight, but ask Latino people to gain a different perspective.

Is the comment punishable? Yes. But I don't think it was racist. I think it was a comment that was misplaced but then twisted out of context by the FA to show up Blatter. "See, we are hard on racism in England, not like FIFA."

But I respect your views and the views of others on here. Part of the wonder of this forum is that you get understandings and perspectives outside of your own. While I can't bring many new perspectives outside of my own judgment, this time I can bring a cultural perspective.

Great post mate.

Hypocrisy: the English disease // The Anfield Wrap


This excellent article by Rory Smith is also bang on the button.