Paul Pogba

[Sparky_Hughes]

Nah, it's not those comments that I mean. It's the "feckin' greedy twat" "money grabbing cnut" type comments that I find a bit jouvinille.

If he's being offered significatly more money to work for another company then I don't blame him for taking it.

And nor would I if he were on a low wage, but quite frankly anyone on over £1000 a week at the age of 19 is a lucky rich bastard and making such a fuss over a few grand a week extra when he has as yet, achived absolutely feck all makes him a greedy money grabbing twat.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

FFS It's the agent fees of 1.9m which Juventus are willing to pay which is the main thing.

People are really fecking wondering whether we're skint to pay 20k a week to a player. Some here are absolutely idiots.

Basically. From all the reports I've read it actually appears he'll earn less at Juve (20k a week is £1m a year which is more than 1m Euros a year), also it's not for footballing reasons. His path to the first team is far clearer than some of his reserve teammates. Giggs, Scholes and Carrick are in their 30's, Fletch might never play again, Ando and Cleverley are always injured, he just needs to trust SAF. If he doesn't want to stay that's up to him, rather now than 5 years down the line.

 

[lynchie]

Another talent leaving, really frustrating. I mean almost all of us saw a future united consisting of cleverley, pogba, morrison and cleverley. Really a bad year in terms of these things. Whatever be the thing, we should be able to hold on to our talented players although morrison was a different case. I am not sure if it was all about first team football though.

Well, when you put it like that, half of them have made it into the first team. Not a bad return.

 

[Wumminator]

nice Pogba tidbit: he was supposed to start against Crawley last year but was late for the team bus. Got a bollocking, left on the bench

Thank feck he's getting out the club. Can you imagine someone like that in your squad?

 

[Name Changed]

And nor would I if he were on a low wage, but quite frankly anyone on over £1000 a week at the age of 19 without having achieved a damn thing is a money grabbing cnut and a fecking greedy twat as you put it.

No they aren't. That's ridiculous. Should you have to reach a certain age before you can make money? Any player, regardless of their age, is perfectly entitled to look for the best deal possible. They are not obliged to take lesser wages just because they are young.

I completely agree with cw1984.

Personally, barring Heinze maybe, I have always wished a player all the best after he leaves the club.

 

[KM]

Basically. From all the reports I've read it actually appears he'll earn less at Juve (20k a week is £1m a year which is more than 1m Euros a year), also it's not for footballing reasons. His path to the first team is far clearer than some of his reserve teammates. Giggs, Scholes and Carrick are in their 30's, Fletch might never play again, Ando and Cleverley are always injured, he just needs to trust SAF. If he doesn't want to stay that's up to him, rather now than 5 years down the line.

Saw this tweet from a Juve fan

Clearly Pogba led by Raiola. Lot of "he'll play more than at #MUFC" comments on TL. Presence of Marchisio, Vidal, Pirlo & Gabriel says not

 

[Wumminator]

I can't believe some people are going mad at Ferguson.

He's bought through more youngsters than anyone. Just this season alone with Cleverly/Welbeck and Evans establishing themselves as first choice he's done more than any Chelsea/City manager, and Wenger wishes he has the young talent we do.

 

[Name Changed]

nice Pogba tidbit: he was supposed to start against Crawley last year but was late for the team bus. Got a bollocking, left on the bench

Thank feck he's getting out the club. Can you imagine someone like that in your squad?

Luckily Ferguson doesn't really hold on to grudges for too long, or we would have lost Scholes years ago after he refused to play.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Not training with the first team squad today so I think it's fair to say with him not playing for the reserves yesterday that these reports are correct, or he might be injured but I doubt it.

 

[Gambit]

I can't believe some people are going mad at Ferguson.

He's bought through more youngsters than anyone. Just this season alone with Cleverly/Welbeck and Evans establishing themselves as first choice he's done more than any Chelsea/City manager, and Wenger wishes he has the young talent we do.

Who's doing that then?

 

[TheBest]

Well, when you put it like that, half of them have made it into the first team. Not a bad return.

Yeah but the manner in which other 2 are leaving does leave you bitter.

 

[Name Changed]

I can't believe some people are going mad at Ferguson.

He's bought through more youngsters than anyone. Just this season alone with Cleverly/Welbeck and Evans establishing themselves as first choice he's done more than any Chelsea/City manager, and Wenger wishes he has the young talent we do.

There's only one person to blame in my opinion and it's the agent. Pogba is a young lad who is clearly being advised by an agent who has not got his best wishes as his priority. It is ridiculous that agents can influence young naive players like this.

It's not Fergusons fault.

 

[Gambit]

So can we activate this one year option thing then?

 

[The Taurean]

So can we activate this one year option thing then?

what would be the point?

 

[Name Changed]

So can we activate this one year option thing then?

Why would we want to if his mind is made up because he is being led and/or badly advised by a prick of an agent?

 

[apotheosis]

We pay our youngsters well enough. Welbeck was given a contract of 15k when he was 19 and that was three years ago. Do you seriously think we won't pay Pogba near that amount considering how highly rated he is by Sir Alex and the coaching staff(according to the article he has signed a contract with Juve for 20k Euros).

I don't know but people have created the myths of
"United offering contracts late" or "United doesn't pay youngsters well"

What it's based on?
How many youngsters have really lose on to wages. I think Pogba's the only one. Rossi and Pique had different reasons but it wasn't money and we simply kicked out Morrison. Fryers looks like he has signed a new contract as he's played for the reserves yesterday.

For every case of Aaron Ramsey, there's Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, so it's not an issue of us not paying well.

The only thing against the club is that they have perhaps waited too long to negotiate Pogba's contract, although according to Fergie Pogba has changed his agents twice so that perhaps made it difficult.

I agree on the whole, but i would be interested to find out what we are paying the likes of Jones and Smalling in relation to what we have offered Pogba. It would seem a little contradictory if we were willing to pay those youngsters we bring in, twice as much as those we bring through our own ranks.

It doesn't seem to make much sense that Pogba has agreed to move just so his agent can pick up a couple of mil in fees. You would think there has to be some added incentive for Pogba too.

 

[TheBest]

So can we activate this one year option thing then?

My bitter side says yes but what would be the point if he will eventually sign for juve sooner or later. Why waste one year on him.

 

[The Taurean]

I agree on the whole, but i would be interested to find out what we are paying the likes of Jones and Smalling in relation to what we have offered Pogba. It would seem a little contradictory if we were willing to pay those youngsters we bring in, twice as much as those we bring through our own ranks.

It doesn't seem to make much sense that Pogba has agreed to move just so his agent can pick up a couple of mil in fees. You would think there has to be some added incentive for Pogba too.

For the case of Jones and smalling, you would need to compare to what welbeck will be earning tbh. prove yourself and earn.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

So can we activate this one year option thing then?

I don't think so by the looks of reports. This is very peculiar too, SAF seemed confident and not in a rush to tie Paul down because of this option but all of sudden it's out of the equation, I heard murmurs that Pogba's camp countered such a clause would take him beyond his 3rd year in contract (youth players only allowed to be offered 3 years max). However if you presume his contract he signed on his 17th birthday becomes legally binding in the July of that year (have you ever heard of a player going out of contract in March?) then it wouldn't take him beyond 3 years at all. Very confused. Conversely if he wants to leave why keep him here?

 

[Name Changed]

I agree on the whole, but i would be interested to find out what we are paying the likes of Jones and Smalling in relation to what we have offered Pogba. It would seem a little contradictory if we were willing to pay those youngsters we bring in, twice as much as those we bring through our own ranks.

It doesn't seem to make much sense that Pogba has agreed to move just so his agent can pick up a couple of mil in fees. You would think there has to be some added incentive for Pogba too.

Those played were transferred in though. There is no way Smalling would sign a 15k contract if his transfer value was 10m. Similarly with Jones.

 

[finneh]

We pay our youngsters well enough. Welbeck was given a contract of 15k when he was 19 and that was three years ago. Do you seriously think we won't pay Pogba near that amount considering how highly rated he is by Sir Alex and the coaching staff(according to the article he has signed a contract with Juve for 20k Euros).

I don't know but people have created the myths of
"United offering contracts late" or "United doesn't pay youngsters well"

What it's based on?
How many youngsters have really lose on to wages. I think Pogba's the only one. Rossi and Pique had different reasons but it wasn't money and we simply kicked out Morrison. Fryers looks like he has signed a new contract as he's played for the reserves yesterday.

For every case of Aaron Ramsey, there's Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, so it's not an issue of us not paying well.

The only thing against the club is that they have perhaps waited too long to negotiate Pogba's contract, although according to Fergie Pogba has changed his agents twice so that perhaps made it difficult.

I'm pretty sure it is factual that we pay our most promising youngsters less than a lot of top teams. From what I've read/heard we tend to pay on a curve whereby all youngsters are paid a similar decent wage, rather than some clubs who pay who they feel are the most promising almost first team wages.

As Swiss Ramble stated "While there is some logic in giving youngsters good contracts, as it prevents other clubs from snapping them up for free, it is questionable whether this has worked out for Arsenal, given the relatively small number of success stories. My hope would be that one of Arsenal’s smart executives is conducting a review of whether this approach is the most appropriate in 2012."

Smalling/Jones were totally different as they went straight into the first team and so were paid as first team players, not promising young players.

 

[Carl]

And nor would I if he were on a low wage, but quite frankly anyone on over £1000 a week at the age of 19 is a lucky rich bastard and making such a fuss over a few grand a week extra when he has as yet, achived absolutely feck all makes him a greedy money grabbing twat.

Well, safe to say I don't agree.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Quite honestly this new breed of young footballers are a perfect representation of modern society. In the past you wanted a new TV, you saved up and bought one, new kitchen? Ditto, these days just lumber yourself in debt because you deserve everything you want RIGHT NOW.
What do you mean you expect me to PROOVE I deserve tens of thousands of pounds every week? But Im telling you Im amazing, that should be enough damnit.

 

[TheBest]

Quite honestly this new breed of young footballers are a perfect representation of modern society. In the past you wanted a new TV, you saved up and bought one, new kitchen? Ditto, these days just lumber yourself in debt because you deserve everything you want RIGHT NOW.
What do you mean you expect me to PROOVE I deserve tens of thousands of pounds every week? But Im telling you Im amazing, that should be enough damnit.

Its not past we are living in anymore, people should realize this quickly.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Its not past we are living in anymore, people should realize this quickly.

No we arent, but just because something is the more modern way doesnt automatically make it better.

People should realise THIS quickly.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Why do people keep going on about wages? The reports say he'll get €1m a year at Juventus and Andy Mitten said we offered him £20k a week which equates to a bit more than £1m a year, he'd earn more here assuming they're talking about the basic wage and no bonuses etc. Clearly the fact the agent is getting a €2m bonus (which will take Paul 2 years to earn and which should actually make him realise his agent isn't doing him any favours at all), has swayed the direction of the deal. I do think we might have a little bit presumptuous with our contract negotiations with our youth players this year, we might need to adapt as it appears the agents are now targeting talented youth players.

 

[TheBest]

No we arent, but just because something is the more modern way doesnt automatically make it better.

People should realise THIS quickly.

People realize it but you can't change it, you just have to deal with it and adapt accordingly rather than moaning all day IMO.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

People realize it but you can't change it, you just have to deal with it and adapt accordingly rather than moaning all day IMO.

Sadly your absolutely right.

 

[TheBest]

Why do people keep going on about wages? The reports say he'll get €1m a year at Juventus and Andy Mitten said we offered him £20k a week which equates to a bit more than £1m a year, he'd earn more here assuming they're talking about the basic wage and no bonuses etc. Clearly the fact the agent is getting a €2m bonus (which will take Paul 2 years to earn and which should actually make him realise his agent isn't doing him any favours at all), has swayed the direction of the deal. I do think we might have a little bit presumptuous with our contract negotiations with our youth players this year, we might need to adapt as it appears the agents are now targeting talented youth players.

Agree, I don't understand pogba's thinking tbh, it seems like his agent probably screwed him but he isn't that young. Probably hidden incentives.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

From the agent's point of view he is quids in. If Pogba had signed for United, assuming he is on 10% cut, he would have received £100k, instead as Pogba signs for Juve he receives 2m Euros.

 

[finneh]

Quite honestly this new breed of young footballers are a perfect representation of modern society. In the past you wanted a new TV, you saved up and bought one, new kitchen? Ditto, these days just lumber yourself in debt because you deserve everything you want RIGHT NOW.
What do you mean you expect me to PROOVE I deserve tens of thousands of pounds every week? But Im telling you Im amazing, that should be enough damnit.

Unfortunately I think you have crossed the line to idealism.

As I understand it: Pogba knows he is currently worth £x per week. He knows this because several clubs are willing to pay it, hence it is market value. His current team will not come near his market value, ergo either they don't believe he is as talented as other clubs or they want to pay him below his market value.

If you can give me a single reason that you would accept a lower (good) wage rather than a higher one simply because you are currently well paid I'll reconsider my stance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Unfortunately I think you have crossed the line to idealism.

As I understand it: Pogba knows he is currently worth £x per week. He knows this because several clubs are willing to pay it, hence it is market value. His current team will not come near his market value, ergo either they don't believe he is as talented as other clubs or they want to pay him below his market value.

If you can give me a single reason that you would accept a lower (good) wage rather than a higher one simply because you are currently well paid I'll reconsider my stance.

Really?

You know something the rest of us don't?

 

[Hectic]

This is fecked. I'm really frustrated that we've managed to lose both of them.

Not sure what the lad's thinking is here, but he'll be left with regrets.

 

[apotheosis]

For the case of Jones and smalling, you would need to compare to what welbeck will be earning tbh. prove yourself and earn.

How had Jones or Smalling proved anything until after they signed their contracts?

Those played were transferred in though. There is no way Smalling would sign a 15k contract if his transfer value was 10m. Similarly with Jones.

Yes i understand that, but from Pogba's point of view i cannot really see him accepting that someone coming in should automatically be on more wages than him. Would he then not be within his rights to be looking at his own potential transfer value as a valid consideration for determining his wages?

 

[Wowi]

How had Jones or Smalling proved anything until after they signed their contracts?

Uhm, by playing PL football elsewhere maybe?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I love the way people always assume an air of authority about the contractual details of loads of different United players in discussions like this.

I have absolutely no idea what sort of initial salary we offered Smalling and Jones, nor do I know if they received incremental increases or bonuses based on first-team appearances (which will have definitely been triggered by now, bearing in mind how often they've featured already).

I certainly don't know how much their weekly wage is at the moment nor do I have the foggiest idea exactly what sort of terms were offered to Pogba - by United or Juventus.

Glad to know there are so many people on here so much better-informed than me.

 

[kps88]

Not sure what the lad's thinking is here, but he'll be left with regrets.

Not really. Its too early in his career for him to make any huge mistakes. If he's as good as he thinks then he'll make it at Juve/earn himself another big move later on sort of like how Beardsley made it despite leaving us. If he's a bit shit then he won't get much football (like with us tbf) and eventually get a move to a club at his level. Either way his agents raking it in.

We're the big losers here if he does turn out to be good.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not really. Its too early in his career for him to make any huge mistakes. If he's as good as he thinks then he'll make it at Juve/earn himself another big move later on aka doing a Beardsley. If he's a bit shit then he won't get much football (like with us tbf) and eventually get a move to a club at his level. Either way his agents raking it in.

We're the big losers here if he does turn out to be good.

I think Hectic's point was he stands a better chance of making the most of his talent at United. It's one thing having talent, quite another making the most of it.

At United he has less competition in his preferred position and a manager with a record that is second to none at bringing through young players into the first team while remaining competitive at the very highest level. That's a really big opportunity to turn your back on.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Not really. Its too early in his career for him to make any huge mistakes. If he's as good as he thinks then he'll make it at Juve/earn himself another big move later on sort of like how Beardsley made it despite leaving us. If he's a bit shit then he won't get much football (like with us tbf) and eventually get a move to a club at his level. Either way his agents raking it in.

We're the big losers here if he does turn out to be good.

Why are we big losers, what's stopping us from getting someone better than Pogba within the coming years? Even if he's fulfils his potential it doesn't matter really, if he doesn't want to stay there's no point keeping him.

 

[Hectic]

Not really. Its too early in his career for him to make any huge mistakes. If he's as good as he thinks then he'll make it at Juve/earn himself another big move later on aka doing a Beardsley. If he's a bit shit then he won't get much football (like with us tbf) and eventually get a move to a club at his level. Either way his agents raking it in.

We're the big losers here if he does turn out to be good.

I'm pretty sure he is, not us. It's shit that neither will make it here, or at least not at this stage of their careers, but ultimately he is one player, we are one of the best footballing clubs in the world. If he makes it, then he'll also realize he could have made it at United, by just staying. A big move later does not match what he might have had here. If he's a bit shit, then maybe it won't make such a difference to him as he would have inevitably left us anyway, but at this stage of his career, with the promise he's shown, it doesn't make sense. Even if he's not the player some think he will be, he'd still have a better chance securing a better career for himself after at least playing some time with United.