Paul Pogba

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isn't this thread about Pogba and not our midfield "crisis" in general

For me I think he wants the sunshine and lucrative deal that Juv can give him. He can feck off. Let's just have players who really want to play for this club. If they don't, then if they are not playing they will moan groan etc all the way through a season and upset the spirit of the team....

Anyway, from what I gather he isn't exactly the next messi anyway and won't be..
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I agree with all of that. But what of that is different to 12 months ago? Scholes was retired, Giggs was old, Park was still not a centre mid, Fletch was very ill and SAF knew more about it than we did, Jones had never kicked a ball for us and isnt a midfielder, Pogba was revising for his GCSEs and there were question marks over Anderson.

So if we got through that summer without signing a midfielder, what makes you think this summer will be different? If anything things look better now, given Cleverley is a year older and has demonstrated, if only briefly, that is can cut it at this level. SAF could argue that means we have enough cover there.
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I didn't look at Anderson as being injury prone last season. I still don't in a way but the jury has to be out now that we will make it through a season.

It was all looking good last summer because I honestly believed that Cleverley and Pogba would get more game time this season. The former then got crocked and the latter was semi frozen out due his contract saga. We didn't know Fletch was ill until well into the season, not last summer.

So yes, there's a big difference between this transfer window and last years IMO. We needed to add a midfielder and failed last year, not for want of trying, this summer has escalated that need.
 
2Bullish said:
I didn't look at Anderson as being injury prone last season. I still don't in a way but the jury has to be out now that we will make it through a season.

It was all looking good last summer because I honestly believed that Cleverley and Pogba would get more game time this season. The former then got crocked and the latter was semi frozen out due his contract saga. We didn't know Fletch was ill until well into the season, not last summer.

So yes, there's a big difference between this transfer window and last years IMO. We needed to add a midfielder and failed last year, not for want of trying, this summer has escalated that need.
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I am surprised you didnt view Anderson as injury prone last year, because he has had his fair share of injuries pretty much the whole time he has been here.

As for Fletcher - WE didnt know for sure what was going on last summer, although clearly something was afoot because he had been out a long time. But the point is SAF did know what was going on, and will have been advised extensively on his prognosis. The reason we didnt know was medical privacy, not a lack of clarity about what was happening behind the scenes. Yes there may have been a hope that he could come back sooner, but he must have known there were no certainties on that score. So it was a gamble. Just like this summer he can look at the situation and say, Fletcher will have had his break from football, possibly an operation, whatever is required, and he will be back. Hopefully. Maybe he will be the player he was, maybe he wont. To me the situations are comparable.

Im sorry but any way I look at it, I dont see anything has changed with respect to the urgency of our midfield situation in the last 12 months. It is fecking urgent now and it was equally urgent then. SAF might say, well, we had the worst possible luck this year and came close, next year we cant possibly have worse luck than that, and there is no value in the market, so Ill make do with what I have. That would be a massive mistake, I am sure the majority on here agree with that - never has something been so extensively debated when 99% of us are in agreement - except one of the 1% seems to be SAF and he is the only person who matters. All it takes is Carrick to be injured for a few months.... I dont even want to think about it.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I am surprised you didnt view Anderson as injury prone last year, because he has had his fair share of injuries pretty much the whole time he has been here.

As for Fletcher - WE didnt know for sure what was going on last summer, although clearly something was afoot because he had been out a long time. But the point is SAF did know what was going on, and will have been advised extensively on his prognosis. The reason we didnt know was medical privacy, not a lack of clarity about what was happening behind the scenes. Yes there may have been a hope that he could come back sooner, but he must have known there were no certainties on that score. So it was a gamble. Just like this summer he can look at the situation and say, Fletcher will have had his break from football, possibly an operation, whatever is required, and he will be back. Hopefully. Maybe he will be the player he was, maybe he wont. To me the situations are comparable.

Im sorry but any way I look at it, I dont see anything has changed with respect to the urgency of our midfield situation in the last 12 months. It is fecking urgent now and it was equally urgent then. SAF might say, well, we had the worst possible luck this year and came close, next year we cant possibly have worse luck than that, and there is no value in the market, so Ill make do with what I have. That would be a massive mistake, I am sure the majority on here agree with that - never has something been so extensively debated when 99% of us are in agreement - except one of the 1% seems to be SAF and he is the only person who matters. All it takes is Carrick to be injured for a few months.... I dont even want to think about it.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet. The point is, there is a big difference between last year and this summer. Last year no midfield crisis, this year major crisis, compounded by an injury list longer than your arm.

Who would know that we would have had to play our starting eleven for less that 20% of the season. Some things you just cannot legislate against. Yet we are still joint top. Amazing.
 
2Bullish said:
I'm not disagreeing with you, I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet. The point is, there is a big difference between last year and this summer. Last year no midfield crisis, this year major crisis, compounded by an injury list longer than your arm.

Who would know that we would have had to play our starting eleven for less that 20% of the season. Some things you just cannot legislate against. Yet we are still joint top. Amazing.
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We certainly agree with what we want to see happen, thats for sure.

But without meaning to be a pedant, we disagree on the bits I have bolded. Because I see little difference between last year and this year. And I did regard our midfield as something of a crisis last year, with Scholes retiring. I was stunned we didnt sign anyone and I feared the worst. And to some extent was proved wrong (competitive in the league) and in other ways wasnt (performance in Europe and the cups).

My fear is that whatever logic lead to us not investing last summer will apply again this summer. Because nothing has really changed. That is what I am saying.

That is why I type out these endless fecking posts, again and again, making the same point, over and over, like a broken fecking record, in every thread I stagger into, boring the shit out of everyone - myself included - derailing every conversation, be it about Pogba or Hazard or Essien or what happened this season or Game of bloody Thrones. Because this is the shit that is going around and around in my head. And its killing me.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
We certainly agree with what we want to see happen, thats for sure.

But without meaning to be a pedant, we disagree on the bits I have bolded. Because I see little difference between last year and this year. And I did regard our midfield as something of a crisis last year, with Scholes retiring. I was stunned we didnt sign anyone and I feared the worst. And to some extent was proved wrong (competitive in the league) and in other ways wasnt (performance in Europe and the cups).

My fear is that whatever logic lead to us not investing last summer will apply again this summer. Because nothing has really changed. That is what I am saying.

That is why I type out these endless fecking posts, again and again, making the same point, over and over, like a broken fecking record, in every thread I stagger into, boring the shit out of everyone - myself included - derailing every conversation, be it about Pogba or Hazard or Essien or what happened this season or Game of bloody Thrones. Because this is the shit that is going around and around in my head. And its killing me.
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Not boring at all, what you say is bang on but there are only so many shirts to dish out.. We didn't have a crisis last summer compared to this because we were bring talent from the reserves. Unfortunately that has not worked because of injuries and injuries only. Just unlucky mate. Yes we can strengthen in the market but we are not the financial powerhouse we once were. We need to furnish our debt and until we do we do we cannot go toe to toe against a guy whos families land sits on an oil ocean.
 
There will be an outcry from most of our supporters if we do not strengthen midfield this year. Fact.
 
charlenefan said:
Yes. Why are you disputing his ability then?
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As a World beater for sure.

He is a tidy player but he was too anonymous in the games that he played for us this year. I am certainly unsure at this point if he will be a top class midfielder or not. He also has a poor injury record to boot.

Ramshock said:
Apparently 5 games is not enough to make a judgement on a players ability on this board, despite the fact that players have been bought due to 5 games or less in a world cup many times before.
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Sir Alex Ferguson vowed never to buy from a tournament ever again after Karel Poborsky flopped for United.
 
GCHQ said:
But if we make a significant investment in other positions, like last year, then who should the outcry be aimed at?
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The Glazers. It'll always be the Glazers, even though Fergie displayed last summer that he is not as concerned about our midfield as we are. If we fail to sign a midfielder again this summer then there's no excuses, Fergie decided not to.
 
pocco said:
The Glazers. It'll always be the Glazers, even though Fergie displayed last summer that he is not as concerned about our midfield as we are. If we fail to sign a midfielder again this summer then there's no excuses, Fergie decided not to.
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Not sure how you come to that conclusion, the fact that we failed to sign a midfielder doesn't mean we weren't trying.
 
unitedbhoy said:
When you say 'proven' midfielder, what do you mean exactly? A midfielder like Schweinsteiger who has proved pivotal in his team getting to 2 CL finals? Or promising midfielders like Kagawa or Martinez who play an important role for their relatively successful teams?
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tbh I was thinking of someone in the Martinez mould. Which is nothing to sneeze at btw.

Fergia has said we probabaly cannot compete with City in just buying the 'top players' in the world. His entire style has been to integrate players into a team.

As for up and coming I was thinking of players like Clyne and Powell that was mentioned elsewhere.
 
Red Dreams said:
true.

The mistake was putting all our eggs in one basket. I think the Sneijder deal was pretty close before it fell through. By which time it was too late to get someone else.
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It was well documented that we were also interested in Nasri.

In addition, maybe Fergie wasn't interested in anyone else.
 
pocco said:
I don't think we were in for Sneijder. Nasri might have ended up on the wing or behind the striker.

Of course, there could be others we were in for, but I remain unconvinced.
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Why are you unconvinced that Fergie was actively trying to strengthen our midfield when he knew Scholes had retired?
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Why are you unconvinced that Fergie was actively trying to strengthen our midfield when he knew Scholes had retired?
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Him continually saying he was happy with it and the fact we spent £50million and still didn't bring one in. We'd have got one if we wanted one in my opinion. Plus I think he had high hopes for the likes of Anderson, Cleverley, Morrison and Pogba.

For the record, I said last summer that I dont think we'll sign a CM and I could see why. This summer I think we need one, but I'm still unconvinced Fergie will buy one if the Scholes stays on etc.
 
pocco said:
feckin hell, short of getting Fergie on the blower there ain't no proof I can give you. Why don't you prove we were after one?
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Calm down.

The fact we spent £50million and still didn't bring one in proves nothing, if he can't secure his targets (for whatever reason) he's not going to buy just for the sake of it.
 
2Bullish said:
Not boring at all, what you say is bang on but there are only so many shirts to dish out.. We didn't have a crisis last summer compared to this because we were bring talent from the reserves. Unfortunately that has not worked because of injuries and injuries only. Just unlucky mate. Yes we can strengthen in the market but we are not the financial powerhouse we once were. We need to furnish our debt and until we do we do we cannot go toe to toe against a guy whos families land sits on an oil ocean. QUOTE]

City lost £200M last year. I don't think investing an extra £35M per year in the team, which we now pay out in debt interest, would enable us to compete with that.
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Stack said:
Seriously?

Over the years Fergie has wanted a number of high profile players and was unable to get them. Its not just a case of us wanting to buy a player and they go yes.
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can you prove that?
 
Didnt he want Gascoigne as well? I think Gascoigne has said he wished he had come to us when he had the chance. I may have that wrong.
 
Stack said:
Didnt he want Gascoigne as well? I think Gascoigne has said he wished he had come to us when he had the chance. I may have that wrong.
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Fergie said he regrets not making sure he signed for us but Gazza said he doesn't regret it and loved his time at all the clubs he played for.
 
Stack said:
Didnt he want Gascoigne as well? I think Gascoigne has said he wished he had come to us when he had the chance. I may have that wrong.
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Fergie called his failure to sign Gascoigne his biggest regret in football.

Gascoigne said 'I let him down and you don't let Sir Alex Ferguson down. It took six years - I wanted to speak to him and say sorry but I didn't have the bottle.'

EDIT: To be fair to Fergie it wasn't his fault.
 
"Rejection is an overrated hardship in football. So when Patrick Kluivert was so unimpressed by our approaches in 1998 that he wouldn't even do us the courtesy of talking to us, I had no trouble in believing that he was likely to be a bigger loser than us. As I write, there is a growing mountain of persuasive evidence that the Dutchman's indifference indirectly did us a huge favour"- Sir Alex
 
So basically there is plenty of proof out there that Fergie has tried to sign big name players but for whatever reason was unable to.

Anyone with the idea that big players will sign for us just because we want them is naive
 
Stack said:
So basically there is plenty of proof out there that Fergie has tried to sign big name players but for whatever reason was unable to.

Anyone with the idea that big players will sign for us just because we want them is naive
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By the same token it's tiresome that when we don't sign 'player x' or a player in a certain role, that somehow means we didn't try to.
 
Last January people said we need a midfielder and we didn't sign one. Last summer people said we needed a midfielder and we didn't sign one. This January people said we needed a midfielder and we didn't sign one.

This summer could be more of the same. As I said, I'm not convinced Fergie is overly concerned about it. I'm not saying I'm right, but nobody has any proof that we are even after one. Not even a mouthy agent saying we tried signing such and such a player last summer.
 
pocco said:
Last January people said we need a midfielder and we didn't sign one. Last summer people said we needed a midfielder and we didn't sign one. This January people said we needed a midfielder and we didn't sign one.

This summer could be more of the same. As I said, I'm not convinced Fergie is overly concerned about it. I'm not saying I'm right, but nobody has any proof that we are even after one. Not even a mouthy agent saying we tried signing such and such a player last summer.
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Paul Scholes.

I take your point though. It's also interesting to see the likes of Sneijder and Nasri named as potential central midfield targets that we missed out on last Summer. For the love of god, they aren't central midfielders (!), or at least one has never played there and the other has made it quite clear that he doesn't want to. They were going to be number tens to provide what Fergie hoped he was going to get when he signed Berbatov.
 
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