Where does Valencia fit into this who is a better player than both Nani and Hazard?
Eden Hazard | "I am signing for Chelsea"
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Where does Valencia fit into this who is a better player than both Nani and Hazard?
No he isn't. Nani is better than Valencia in my opinion, and Hazard is a completely different in that he isn't a "winger".
I said in a 433. In a 442, he would still play on the right. Nani, Hazard, and Rooney are infinitely more interchangeable along the front than Valencia. He could play in 433, but I was aiming for a lineup with a varied attack. It would be an alternative to just cross it in from wide that we have now.
Obviously that lineup would be stretching it in midfield since I'm not sure how Cleverley and Carrick would do together. Besides, the players are rotated in and out all the time. One thing that hurt us this season is that if Scholes and Carrick weren't in the middle, we dropped points because we had no one else to play there.
Obviously that lineup would be stretching it in midfield since I'm not sure how Cleverley and Carrick would do together. Besides, the players are rotated in and out all the time. One thing that hurt us this season is that if Scholes and Carrick weren't in the middle, we dropped points because we had no one else to play there.
Ok in your opinion he is in mine he's not so w can agree to disagree. Would be amazed if Hazard comes to EPL and is more productive than Valencia.
Fair enough. He may not be in his first season, but he can cross and thread passes through. He is a "playmaker" winger and if you look at his stats this season (17 goals and 15 assists in Ligue 1) he is very productive. I do still love Valencia no nonsense style of play and wouldn't want him to be frozen out.
rightback.
Lets be honest, valencia is best at keeping the width wide on the right, taking on a man and whipping in a cross.
He can do all that from right back, and allow a more flexible frontline of nani / rooney / hazard too roam around and do the dirty work.
Evra / valencia can push up high when the midfield 3 have the ball.
Funny you should say that because I often thought he would make an excellent RB. Then he broke his leg and I forgot about it. My only doubt was whether he can tackle but I see your reasoning.
--------Smalling--------vidic---------
---------------Martinez --------------
Valencia-------------------------Evra
---------------cleverley---------------
-----Hazard-------------kagawa----
----------------Rooney-------------
----------------welbeck-----------
---------------Martinez --------------
Valencia-------------------------Evra
---------------cleverley---------------
-----Hazard-------------kagawa----
----------------Rooney-------------
----------------welbeck-----------
Very sexy but why would you play a left footer on the right and Kagawa on the left who is right footed?
Because that's his team on Fifa and he's going to smash in the long shots.
They could swap if you like?
No he isn't.
Really?
No where near.
Alright time to put your money where your mouth is
5 AM's who play in the hole for their club who are better than Shinji Kagawa.
I'll give you Ozil, you give me 4 others
Quotes from nasri in tomorrows rags saying he's expecting hazard to sign for city.
The lad has beeen publicly flirting for some time, absolutley no way we'll sign him in my opinion. The way we've operated of late has been under the radar.
The lad has beeen publicly flirting for some time, absolutley no way we'll sign him in my opinion. The way we've operated of late has been under the radar.
The boys a fecking tart and I don't like him already. I would be more gutted if we didn't sign Kagawa.
David Silva is another.
On par/better
Rafael Van Der Vaart
Iniesta
Juan Mata
David Silva
Clint Dempsey
Wesley Sneijder
Thomas Muller(plays it better for national team)
Ganso
Samir Nasri
Lamela
Gotze
Kroos
Lucas Moura
There are plenty but each brings a different quality to the table. Lamela and Ganso would be the closest to Kagawa with terms of awesome through passing
Dempsey better/on par with Kagawa, really?
Take out Dempsey, Nasri, Sniedjer............aww feck it, what's the point.
Going on last season alone it's pretty impossible to argue otherwise, Dempsey was amazing. 23 goals from midfield is similar to Lampard/Gerrard at their peak.
The critical factor is that is likely to be Dempsey's best ever season, he's 29 and at his absolute peak, Kagawa is still developing.
I really hope we sign Kagawa so that some of you can see him up close. The level of techincal ability, as well as vision he has puts him well above the level of dempsey. You are forgetting that dempsey can and for some stages of games for Fulham this season often has played as a lead striker.
His position on the pitch is normally far closer to goal than Kagawa and his size and ability in the air makes him more of a goal threat however Kagawa is light-years ahead of Dempsey in terms of allround play. Under the right guidance Kagawa can be one Europe's best Attacking midfielders, at no stage during his career can anybody make a similar claim about Dempsey.
The two aren't even close.
VDV? Really? ha
Iniesta doesnt play there. Mata doesnt play as well there. Silva ends up there but he's picked on the wing as he didnt work there for City. Dempsey?
Sneijder hasnt been any good. Muller doesnt start for Bayern. Ganso? You're going to compare the brazilian league? Nasri plays on the wing. Lamela doesnt play in the hole either. Goetze plays in the same team as Kagawa, that should tell you that he isnt playing there but something tells me you've seen as much of Goetze as you have Kagawa, ie. nil. Kroos plays in central midfield aside from the odd game further forward. Brazilian league again?Verdict is you're talking shite.
Lamela, there's a name I've forgotten. Watched him in his last game for River Plate as we were rumoured to be interested, he was impressive. How's he getting on in Rome?
VDV? Really? ha
Iniesta doesnt play there. Mata doesnt play as well there. Silva ends up there but he's picked on the wing as he didnt work there for City. Dempsey?
Verdict is you're talking shite.
I agree wholeheartedly with this post.
What? Dempsey played on the wing or up front, not central midfield like Lampard or Gerrard. Kagawa set up more goals and didnt play the same position
Amazingly, apparently he's playing off the striker at Roma and doing better than being second top scorer and assister at a team that won the double. Also keeping Totti out of the team. Must be on the shortlist for the ballon d'or top 3 along with Dempsey.
What you asked for were people who played from the same position and were better than Kagawa. I gave you a list that were on par if not better and you threw your toys out the pram. Unless of course you are suggesting Kagawa is top 3 in the world material
Rafael Van Der Vaart (Played in that exact same role)13 goals 8 assists
Iniesta 8goals 11assists (ill give you this one who didnt totally play in the hole)
Juan Mata 12goals 19assists
David Silva 9goals 21assists
Clint Dempsey 23goals 8assists
Wesley Sneijder 5goals 6assists
Thomas Muller(plays it better for national team) 10goals 20assists
Ganso 2 goals 3 assists in 4 games so far
Samir Nasri 6goals 9 assists
Lamela 6 goals 6 assists
Gotze 7goals 8 assists
Kroos 7goals 18 assists
Lucas Moura 2 goals 2 assists in 7 so far
VDV? Really? ha
Yes really, played up front or in behind Adebayor countless times
Iniesta doesnt play there
About one of the few times you have been right
Mata doesnt play as well there
He has played there and played off the wing...same as Kagawa has
Silva ends up there but he's picked on the wing as he didnt work there for City.
Right so he's picked on the wing and plays in behind the striker? Which means he doesn't play behind the striker because he wasn't initially picked to play there? RIIIIIIIGHT
Dempsey?
23 Goals playing right off or in behind Ruiz, Johnson and whoever else has played ahead off him. Nobody mentioned world player of the year.... someone who statistically on par with Kagawa and performed in one of the worlds best leagues.
Sneijder hasnt been any good.
Granted...poor season, lots of stop starts but fact is it doesn't make him not world class anymore.
Muller doesnt start for Bayern.
Sure he doesn't....52 appearances this season and did i fail to mention 7 of them were when he was coming ON as a sub?
Ganso? You're going to compare the brazilian league?
And why not? Does that make Neymar, Lucas etc not good enough
Nasri plays on the wing
Granted he starts there on paper but "ends up there". Forgot that Silva, Tevez, Nasri don't interchange at all.
Lamela doesnt play in the hole either
He plays in front of the midfield and behind the striker....Called in the hole.
Goetze plays in the same team as Kagawa, that should tell you that he isnt playing there but something tells me you've seen as much of Goetze as you have Kagawa, ie. nil.
Being a Dortmund fan and having attended games since 1989. I have seen as much of Gotze as you've probably signed on Football Manager. Gotze plays again infront of the midfield, in the midfield and i have also seen him feature on the wings the odd time. He very much does what he wants and "ends up there". Kagawa, Gotze and whoever else between Kuba/Grosskreutz/Perisic end up like City and effectively play 3 in the hole. Depending on the opposition they will push to hog the width and stretch teams but 3 play in the hole with Gundogan and Kehl in Centre mid role.
Kroos plays in central midfield aside from the odd game further forward.
He's playedi n both positions and have even seen him spread out the wing. Fact is he can still comfortably play there without trouble
Either way, your argument lacks sufficient research to carry on. You asked for 5 players better than Kagawa in this role. I pointed out a whole list of those who were on par or better based on how they played this season or typically play.
I've seen more than enough of Kagawa thank you very much
I know exactly what he's like and in terms of raw ability he is light years ahead of Dempsey. However effectiveness and ability aren't the same thing, Dempsey has been as effective as anyone this year in his role behind the striker (and yes, I know he has played as a lone striker sometimes and as a wide striker of 3. It still doesn't change the fact his performances this season have been as good as almost anyone.Dempsey has played the large portion of his season behind a lone striker, a similar position to Lampard and Gerrard when they where at their best. I'm not saying he's more talented than Kagawa, he's not close. But he has been massively effective, in the last year there are very few players who have been more effective. He's not the most clinical of players but he gets on the end of a lot of chances and has been the pretty major reason they're top half material, plus he's one of the only people in there team that can score away from Craven Cottage.
You can tell this is going badly when people arguing that Silva and Mata don't play in the same position. You could tell he was on a hiding to nothing, if Kagawa had a twin brother who played with a team of other twin brothers from Dortmund in exactly the same position you'd be moaning that one Kagawa had yellow boots and the other had red.
Kagawa is a great talent, one of the best in the world in fact, but he's not in the top 4-5 players in the world in his position.
For a Dortmund supporter, you really don't like Kagawa. Quite worrying.
What you asked for were people who played from the same position and were better than Kagawa. I gave you a list that were on par if not better and you threw your toys out the pram. Unless of course you are suggesting Kagawa is top 3 in the world material
Rafael Van Der Vaart (Played in that exact same role)13 goals 8 assists
Iniesta 8goals 11assists (ill give you this one who didnt totally play in the hole)
Juan Mata 12goals 19assists
David Silva 9goals 21assists
Clint Dempsey 23goals 8assists
Wesley Sneijder 5goals 6assists
Thomas Muller(plays it better for national team) 10goals 20assists
Ganso 2 goals 3 assists in 4 games so far
Samir Nasri 6goals 9 assists
Lamela 6 goals 6 assists
Gotze 7goals 8 assists
Kroos 7goals 18 assists
Lucas Moura 2 goals 2 assists in 7 so far
VDV? Really? ha
Yes really, played up front or in behind Adebayor countless times
Iniesta doesnt play there
About one of the few times you have been right
Mata doesnt play as well there
He has played there and played off the wing...same as Kagawa has
Silva ends up there but he's picked on the wing as he didnt work there for City.
Right so he's picked on the wing and plays in behind the striker? Which means he doesn't play behind the striker because he wasn't initially picked to play there? RIIIIIIIGHT
Dempsey?
23 Goals playing right off or in behind Ruiz, Johnson and whoever else has played ahead off him. Nobody mentioned world player of the year.... someone who statistically on par with Kagawa and performed in one of the worlds best leagues.
Sneijder hasnt been any good.
Granted...poor season, lots of stop starts but fact is it doesn't make him not world class anymore.
Muller doesnt start for Bayern.
Sure he doesn't....52 appearances this season and did i fail to mention 7 of them were when he was coming ON as a sub?
Ganso? You're going to compare the brazilian league?
And why not? Does that make Neymar, Lucas etc not good enough
Nasri plays on the wing
Granted he starts there on paper but "ends up there". Forgot that Silva, Tevez, Nasri don't interchange at all.
Lamela doesnt play in the hole either
He plays in front of the midfield and behind the striker....Called in the hole.
Goetze plays in the same team as Kagawa, that should tell you that he isnt playing there but something tells me you've seen as much of Goetze as you have Kagawa, ie. nil.
Being a Dortmund fan and having attended games since 1989. I have seen as much of Gotze as you've probably signed on Football Manager. Gotze plays again infront of the midfield, in the midfield and i have also seen him feature on the wings the odd time. He very much does what he wants and "ends up there". Kagawa, Gotze and whoever else between Kuba/Grosskreutz/Perisic end up like City and effectively play 3 in the hole. Depending on the opposition they will push to hog the width and stretch teams but 3 play in the hole with Gundogan and Kehl in Centre mid role.
Kroos plays in central midfield aside from the odd game further forward.
He's playedi n both positions and have even seen him spread out the wing. Fact is he can still comfortably play there without trouble
Either way, your argument lacks sufficient research to carry on. You asked for 5 players better than Kagawa in this role. I pointed out a whole list of those who were on par or better based on how they played this season or typically play.
This, this post right here, is ownage.
I especially like the bit where he informs Ekeke about actually going to the Dortmund games, genuinely laughed out loud.
I do quite like him, don't get me wrong, that's the last way I wanted to come across. I just pointing out that it's not the end of the world if Hazard and Kagawa all goes Pete Tong. EVERY single one of those players brings something different to the table and in a team which is crying out for that type of player for the past 4-5 years, I'd take ANY one.
Beggars can't be choosers. But if we sign Kagawa I'm confident we would be going 4-2-3-1 and ditching a striker this summer. Hernandez, Rooney, Valencia and Young following those through balls would be jizz worthy.
Kagawa is a talented lad no question but you also have to be realistic that he isn't really a world class player yet.
Non the less I think he has still the potential to improve and might grow into a world class player at a bigger club but as always nothing is certain.
It's also the possibility that he won't make it at the highest levels but I guess for a fee of 10-15 mio. € it's worth the risk.
Non the less I think he has still the potential to improve and might grow into a world class player at a bigger club but as always nothing is certain.
It's also the possibility that he won't make it at the highest levels but I guess for a fee of 10-15 mio. € it's worth the risk.
I expect to wake up to the news that Hazard has signed for shitty...expect this to happen any day now.
100% That other guy bit off way more than he could chew in this instance, ended up looking a bit foolish. Nevermind though, happens to us all sometimes.
I've highlighted the players who I disagree are better... For lucas and Ganso they will almost certainly become better eventually but they are both still really young, and yes they play in the brazilian league which you can't discount. The bundesliga is on a completely different level to the brazilian league.
What makes Lamela better? He's scored and assisted less, in arguably a slightly lesser league as well. You could argue Muller (only Bayern form) and Van der Vaart are on par with him as well, VDV because he is pretty much a highlights player. He goes missing a lot but then pops up with a goal/assist. He's really inconsistent as well. Still a good player. Muller is nowhere near as good for Bayern as he is for Germany, but he is still a good player, you could argue him and Kagawa are on par.
Dempsey, although he scores loads, he is the main man at Fulham and he pretty much plays as a support striker. Good player, but not at Kagawa's quality IMO, especially on the ball.
Anyways, yeah he's not top 5 in his position but he isn't as low as you made out he is there.
Also wanted to add on Lamela that I've seen him play only once before, so obviously can't make an opinion on him but if he was that good at the age of 20 than surely he'd be making much more noise than he currently is (aka, nothing).
VDV? Really? ha
Iniesta doesnt play there. Mata doesnt play as well there. Silva ends up there but he's picked on the wing as he didnt work there for City. Dempsey?
Verdict is you're talking shite.
And so were you with top 5 and world class Ekeke I like you as a poster but not with you on this one.
Sneijder
Kaka (yes him)
Silva
Kroos (personal favourite)
Ozil
I could go on but here are 5 of real quality. Not saying he's not a good player just not as good as the hyperbole that's now happening! Would be a good addition to our squad given the alleged price quoted.
ExcellenteWhat you asked for were people who played from the same position and were better than Kagawa. I gave you a list that were on par if not better and you threw your toys out the pram. Unless of course you are suggesting Kagawa is top 3 in the world material
Rafael Van Der Vaart (Played in that exact same role)13 goals 8 assists
Iniesta 8goals 11assists (ill give you this one who didnt totally play in the hole)
Juan Mata 12goals 19assists
David Silva 9goals 21assists
Clint Dempsey 23goals 8assists
Wesley Sneijder 5goals 6assists
Thomas Muller(plays it better for national team) 10goals 20assists
Ganso 2 goals 3 assists in 4 games so far
Samir Nasri 6goals 9 assists
Lamela 6 goals 6 assists
Gotze 7goals 8 assists
Kroos 7goals 18 assists
Lucas Moura 2 goals 2 assists in 7 so far
VDV? Really? ha
Yes really, played up front or in behind Adebayor countless times
Iniesta doesnt play there
About one of the few times you have been right
Mata doesnt play as well there
He has played there and played off the wing...same as Kagawa has
Silva ends up there but he's picked on the wing as he didnt work there for City.
Right so he's picked on the wing and plays in behind the striker? Which means he doesn't play behind the striker because he wasn't initially picked to play there? RIIIIIIIGHT
Dempsey?
23 Goals playing right off or in behind Ruiz, Johnson and whoever else has played ahead off him. Nobody mentioned world player of the year.... someone who statistically on par with Kagawa and performed in one of the worlds best leagues.
Sneijder hasnt been any good.
Granted...poor season, lots of stop starts but fact is it doesn't make him not world class anymore.
Muller doesnt start for Bayern.
Sure he doesn't....52 appearances this season and did i fail to mention 7 of them were when he was coming ON as a sub?
Ganso? You're going to compare the brazilian league?
And why not? Does that make Neymar, Lucas etc not good enough
Nasri plays on the wing
Granted he starts there on paper but "ends up there". Forgot that Silva, Tevez, Nasri don't interchange at all.
Lamela doesnt play in the hole either
He plays in front of the midfield and behind the striker....Called in the hole.
Goetze plays in the same team as Kagawa, that should tell you that he isnt playing there but something tells me you've seen as much of Goetze as you have Kagawa, ie. nil.
Being a Dortmund fan and having attended games since 1989. I have seen as much of Gotze as you've probably signed on Football Manager. Gotze plays again infront of the midfield, in the midfield and i have also seen him feature on the wings the odd time. He very much does what he wants and "ends up there". Kagawa, Gotze and whoever else between Kuba/Grosskreutz/Perisic end up like City and effectively play 3 in the hole. Depending on the opposition they will push to hog the width and stretch teams but 3 play in the hole with Gundogan and Kehl in Centre mid role.
Kroos plays in central midfield aside from the odd game further forward.
He's playedi n both positions and have even seen him spread out the wing. Fact is he can still comfortably play there without trouble
.....
Add in a 100% fit Fletch(please dear God) to that if we need a more in your face midfield and we have a feck off great team in the making.
Hazard isn't left footed
are we getting him?
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