Martinez isnt really a box to box mid though. Not his style. He'd be similar to Carrick if played in midfield i believe.
Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Martinez isnt really a box to box mid though. Not his style. He'd be similar to Carrick if played in midfield i believe.
the good thing about modric is that he is equally comfortable playing in a 2 man midfield as well as in a 3 man midfield. sometimes when i watch spurs they will play with just 2 CM against the big sides, and modric never look out of place.
we don't need a makelele type of a player. we need someone who is capable of keeping possession well like modric in our midfield.
i would be very surprise if we end up signing him though.
we don't need a makelele type of a player. we need someone who is capable of keeping possession well like modric in our midfield.
i would be very surprise if we end up signing him though.
Fergie once said that he would never sign a 'destroyer' type midfielder, didn't he?
What you mean like Scholes? Well we had that player last year, and as good as Scholes was at keeping the ball, the opponent will still enjoy some possession eventually. Our problem was we could not get the ball back quick enough. We were ineffective throughout the European campaign, because we simply could not stop our opponents from creating chances against us, and good ones at that.
Modric will not help in that regard any more than Sneijder or Nasri would. We need an alternative to Carrick far more imo. You simply cannot expect to go a whole season with only one defensive minded midfielder in a squad of 25.
If you do and he is injured, we are fecked. But even if he does not get injured, there will be times throughout the season when we need to rest him, or even offer more protection to the defence which means using more than one defensive minded player.
If you look at our players we are tantalisingly close to having a very good team, but for me we need just one more player like Carrick before being able to be effective in formations other than 4-4-2. This is the 4-2-3-1 which i would like to see:
-----------Back 5-----------
------Carrick----A. nother---
Nani------Rooney----Young
---------Welbeck----------
or a 4-3-3/ 4-5-1
-----------Back 5-----------
---Carrick--------A.nother---
----------Kagawa----------
-Valencia---Rooney----Young
For me without another at least competent defensive minded player next to Carrick, none of those systems will be effective enough when we don't have the ball. We can swap about the attacking players to suit any particular preference, but you can surely see what i am getting at. We have to be better at picking up runners, and tracking back effectively. Attack minded players fulfilling a defensive role will never be effective enough. We need a better balance between attack and defensive minded players than we had last year if we want to improve significantly.
No systems completely effective without the ball. Just a small thing, but why is Young in both of your formations, and both Nani and Valencia only in 1! They are far better players, in any formation for me and most of the caf!
Anyways, yes, we need another deep lying playmaker that will exist mainly to perform defensive duties but this player NEEDS to be able to pass the ball very well. That's not easy to find. If it was, City would never ever play De Jong.
Yann m'vila and Martinez stand out here.
But, getting Modric would strengthen our first XI significantly. The problem last season was we played 442; this season we'd have an attacking midfield (Kagawa), helping out as it would be a big part of his job to do so (Unlike Rooney). Secondly, if that 'Scholes' type player is Modric, rather than Scholes, who didn't exactly cover that much difference, and has a reputation of being unable to defend well at all, is the reason why at WHL we didn't complete a pass successfully for 10 minutes (Between the 10th and 20th minute!).
Simply said, by adding another midfielder, albeit a CAM, instead of a CF, we'll immediately have more defensive stability in the squad. Secondly, by having a Modric in there, we'd have a much better defensive option that Scholes, who was part of the first choice midfield 2 last season, and will run much much more than the man 10-11 years his senior.
Of course, an M'vila who also passes the ball well, or Martinez would be great sitting with Carrick, as well. Although I think Carrick would assume the 'Scholes-esque- distribution role; which he did very well in Scholes's absence.
However, Modric would lift our team so much, provided Carrick stays fit the season. If only we didn't have so much debt, and the 40-50 million quid profit went into transfers, on top of the 25-30 million cash injection!
But yeah, it's between getting a Modric (1/3 with the bookies; fans must be convinced he's coming!) which would really help us out in terms of adding massive quality and help the attackers out so much, as well as being a player free to bomb forward a little more than our midfield was last season, due to us having 1 WHOLE more midfielder to play with, but it still leaves Carrick under big duress for the season, to stay in form and injury free. Although, I think a midfield of Kagawa Modric and Cleverley/Anderson/Fletcher would do well.
However, Scholes wouldn't really be able with any of those players, i don't think; none of them are defensively able enough in that role to play with him, apart from Carrick (Who'd have Kagawa ahead of him to help out!)
OR we can get a more defensive minded deep lying playmaker, ala Mvila / Martinez, who'd give Carrick cover, be competitive for 'Scholes's' role and also ensure Carrick gets a lot of rest, and also compete with Carrick.
Possibly the second option may be better, but I think Modric and one of our Anderson/Cleverley's/Fletchers can play with Kagawa in a midfield 3, and easily be balanced.
As SAF said, 3 average midfields will run circles (triangles) around a midfield 2, no matter how good the '2' is. And a '3' of Modric, Cleverley and Kagawa would be far better than average. Even defensively it's decent; Cleverley just won't have as much license.
With the signing of Kagawa, I am not sure we need a Modric type of midfielder but rather someone who plays a bit deeper and adds some steele. M'Vila or Martinez seem to be great talents but Fergie just wont listen.
I think Modric is a good player but not what we really need now and I am not too keen on him
I think Modric is a good player but not what we really need now and I am not too keen on him
I agree with most of your post bar this. While they would be great to watch in possession, I would be shitting myself every time we lost the ball. Any top 4 midfield would absolutely own them, no question.
It's not just that they wouldn't protect the back four at all, we also get into asking players to be very mindful of doing other jobs to the ones they are best at. In that three Kagawa would be asked to spend a lot of time and energy defending, Cleverley would be asked to stay back and be more conservative, Modric probably as well... Which springs the obvious question: why not sign someone who can do that job so others can do what they are best at?
Thanks for your points, and I'm happy you agreed with most of my points!
However, Modric plays quite deep anyways, for spurs as part of a midfield 2 a lot of the time as well. He does really well when this happens, too!
Of course, we need to play players in their best position, but this would only (hopefully) be when Carrick is injured, or against a team like Wigan or Everton or worse (Lots of teams we'll play), in which we WILL be camped in the other teams half. If people think that Cleverley could play in a midfield 2 with Carrick, I don't see why he can't in a 3 with Kagawa and Modric, when circumstances dictate. Is it ideal? No. Is it conceivable, especially against poorer teams? Yes.
That said, I do think we need a defensive minded midfielder who'll pass at above 85% at LEAST, and perhaps before Modric. But only because Carrick has become so pivotal, and we lose so much quality in his position, if he cannot play, due to resting or injury. It's a risk, either way. The safer option is the M'vila/Martinez, and it would be cheaper too (Especially M'vila).
But, I think we'd have a good chance at beating teams like Real with.. and that's why its worth muppeting over Modric.
-----------De Gea----------
Rafael----Vidic--Rio------Evra
-------Carrick---Modric------
Valencia---Kagawa---Nani----
-----------Rooney-----------
Us not being linked with M'Vila is mistifying. I'm increasingly of the opinion that SAF is willing to risk it for 6 months and hope Fletcher comes back like he had never been out. My concern is you could make the same argument on Clevs and Ando, and end up with no midfield reinforcements
The irony
Because no one in that midfield is anywhere near as good at doing what Carrick does, nor do any of them have the same mental disposition. It is two issues here: ability and disposition/awareness. Can't see any of those three being particularly mindful of this defensive/protection lark.
It's a bit like asking Valencia to cross or pass with the left peg. He may -miraculously- pull it off once or twice, but over 90 minutes it just won't happen. And if you scream at him from the touchline all you will do is confuse the hell out fo the poor fecker.
I do agree Modric would make us a better more competitive team, no question on that, it's common sense.
Anderson played as the most defensive midfielder in a 2 and a 3 for us on many occasions, big games and small ones. He may be a bit better suited for it than Cleverley, but I think he could also play that role well, I was impressed with his defense, at times, during his hopeful beginning to last season.
Of course there's a big question mark there if we did go that route, but I think Cleverley has the disposition to play a more defensive role. Especially in a 3 man midfield trying to play possession football, I think he could manager to play defense well enough to earn a place behind two more attacking mids.
Of course there's a big question mark there if we did go that route, but I think Cleverley has the disposition to play a more defensive role. Especially in a 3 man midfield trying to play possession football, I think he could manager to play defense well enough to earn a place behind two more attacking mids.
Us not being linked with M'Vila is mistifying. I'm increasingly of the opinion that SAF is willing to risk it for 6 months and hope Fletcher comes back like he had never been out. My concern is you could make the same argument on Clevs and Ando, and end up with no midfield reinforcements
Maybe Fergie knows something about Fletch, Ando, and Cleverley's fitness and availability that we don't.
Really? I can recall a few decent performances, particularly when he first came against arsenal although he had Hargreaves as well. Don't remember too many other big games when he's played as the more defensive player.
Ando is fairly solid but he has lots to learn not to mention is probably our biggest liability with injuries. Banking in him to come in for carrick would be a mistake IMO. Plus I think ando will be better off as the more attacking member of a two/3.
Ando is fairly solid but he has lots to learn not to mention is probably our biggest liability with injuries. Banking in him to come in for carrick would be a mistake IMO. Plus I think ando will be better off as the more attacking member of a two/3.
I'm sure he thought they'd be available last season as well but they weren't. After it cost us last season I think it would be an unnecessary gamble to bank on 3 players staying fit, when 1 has an actual medical condition and the other 2 seem very injury prone. If they don't stay fit we'll have to rely on two players who certainly can't play every game. Added to that of all these players only one can really come in for carrick and hes the biggest doubt.
I doubt he can know much about Ando given the nature of his injuries, but Cleverley was trauma, not a recurring chronic condition so it should be more predictable.
As for Fletcher, sammsky posted somewhere his own experience with the same illness and according to the calendar/timeframes associated with its treatment, SAF would now know whether he will ever come back or not. Then he has to train, get himself in shape, etc. but he would have a definite indication over whether he can be a goer or not.
If we were to sign Modric we'd be a much better team, that's all that matters to me.
I see Young as better on the left than either of them, he offers goalscoring, quality delivery and defensive workrate. But as i did actually point out in my earlier post, you could change the attacking 5 according to your personal preference.
Of course that is why i stressed another Carrick type, either someone who can play instead of him or beside him.
Nuri Sahin for me. Passes like Scholes, defends more agressively than Carrick, and is a player proven to be able to dictate the play for a successful team.
It's not that i don't think Modric would be an improvement, but weigh in the cost of getting him, the fact we have signed Scholes for another year, and Cleverley is also looking at that position, combined with the fact we have a far greater need for another Carrick. I just feel our money would be better spent on the one irrefutable area of weakness, Carrick's postion. Another season having only one defensive minded midfielder would be madness and detrimental to our chances of competing seriously for the big trophies next season, imo!
Provided Carrick stays fit. But what if he doesn't? The bottom line however you try and slice it, is Carrick's role in our team is absolutely essential. We could spend on Modric, but for me we are not solving the fundamental weakness in our squad. Instead we are buying a Scholes with more energy, who is 27 and will cost a fortune, plus his acquisition will only limit opportunities for Cleverley. Just not worth it to my mind.
Surely you can see which would be the more beneficial option throughout the season. It has got to be another like Carrick for me. It is our only weakness, and will be the one position once strengthened that will improve our options in midfield, but also our ability to switch formations effectively while maintaining a balance between competent attack and effective defence.
Going forward perhaps. How good would we be defensively, and what use what Modric be if/when Carrick get's injured. As with all midfielders like him they need an effective more defensive minded partner beside them to compliment their skills and give them a platform so they can play with freedom.
Without Carrick, we would be fecked, end of. For what Modric will cost, i really cannot see what he is going to provide, that outwiegh's the blatantly obvious need for another Carrick type.
Yeah? Well let's hope he does a better job of assessing their respective fitness and availability, than he did last year!
How good is M'Vila then? A mate was chatting to me about him the other day and he sounded quality - absolutely like the sort of player we should be looking at.
Still, I've not seen him and couldn't say. I still can't help thinking about how fecked we'd be without Carrick, despite the fact that Modric would be an excellent signing.
Still, I've not seen him and couldn't say. I still can't help thinking about how fecked we'd be without Carrick, despite the fact that Modric would be an excellent signing.
If we decide to invest another £25-35m we have to do it wisely. Nobody disagree with that Modric would improve our squad but we still have Scholes for another season, he can hopefully play 20-25 games. There are big question marks regarding how many games Flecther, Anderson and Cleverley can play this season. Do we talk about 50-60 games all together or is it closer to 20-25. We know that our squad will play somewhere between 54 - 71 games this season (5-6 pre season + 38 PL + 9-16 CL + 1-7 CC 1-7 FA) so to be safe we need body's.
I'm not sure Modric is the wisest option when we have Scholes, Ando and Clev all capable of plying together with Carrick. As many have mention a back up or a successor for Carrick would be a better choice if we have to chose. But off course I wouldn't say no to Modric but at the moment he's type of player isn't our biggest priority if we look at it short and middle term.
Modric plays quite deep for Tottenham so that wouldn't be a problem. My problem with him would be the price. I think he's too expensive and for the money there are better alternatives.
Modric would have the biggest influence/improvement on our first 11 but someone like Martinez/M'Vila would be better for the squad as a whole. It'd be amazing to get Modric and then a cheap option for defensive cover for Carrick, but that's probably unrealistic.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts. Another DM should be a much younger player than Carrick, or an experienced alternative. I don't think it's necessary to spend big money on a DM while Carrick has a good few years left. Surely some kind of backup is essential though..
Bizarrely enough, those noncommital quotes make me think he might be on his way out.
With no champions league next season he must want to go, but he's not taking the opportunity to pressurise Levy. Why? Perhaps because he's got an agreement that if an acceptable offer arrives he'll be allowed to leave?
Got no manager now.
He's gone imo, just depends where now.
Chelsea.
If the rumour that Redknapp is gone is true I expect him and Bale to leave.
I think we can all agree that we have expressed an interest in him, how much is up for debate. But for Redknapp to leave fairly unexpectedly, and not of his own accord it seems, it wouldn't be too absurd to suggest they've had a falling out, and if they are falling out, could it be over the proposed sale of Modric?
Lot of ifs and buts, but if you're one wanting Modric here, Redknapp leaving could probably be taken as very good news to you.
Lot of ifs and buts, but if you're one wanting Modric here, Redknapp leaving could probably be taken as very good news to you.
It does t necessarily mean he's coming here though, if he were to leave.
Cheeky bid for both Modric and Sandro?
This is shaping up to be another of those sagas where they build us up, give us hope and make us think we are signing him, only for a last minute decision to go somewhere else.
I just hope I am wrong.
I just hope I am wrong.
We have to pay through our nose to sign Modric.
If I have to personally push all the fivers and coppers through Gill's nose to get Modric, I will
Why won't you listen to the fecking muppet babies, SAF?!
Silly Fergie, what is he thinking? That he is better then us average muppets? Pff. What has he ever done that makes him sooo special?
Vedran Corluka spicing up the transfer rumour:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ottenham-this-summer-says-Vedran-Corluka.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ottenham-this-summer-says-Vedran-Corluka.html
Get him Fergie! Get hom. Bring him to us. I'll have my ever own Modric party and everyone will be invited.
Just don't go to City you cnut.
Just don't go to City you cnut.