La Liga - 2012/2013

[jojojo]

Yes, I know it's two weeks early, however the first threat of strike action has come about over: yes, you guessed it TV coverage. Sort of.

The schedule for the first matches is out and in the first weekend three games are scheduled to kickoff at 11pm. The planners say this was unavoidable as they didn't want to schedule games in the heat of the day. But on the 2nd September (not that far out of the heat of August) Rayo are scheduled to play at noon. The clubs not surprisingly are complaining that the schedulers wouldn't dare do this to the big two.

Games have also been scheduled to clash with Barca and Real Madrid (not normally a good idea for TV or live audiences).

Now clumsiness is one thing but some clubs suspect conspiracy. Half of the clubs have TV contracts with Canal+. The other half, including Barca and Madrid are with Mediapro. The teams getting the worst treatment are mostly with Canal+

In week 2 the Barca and Madrid games clash (almost unheard of) and it just so happens that both of those matches are Canal+ owned - effectively halving Canal+ viewing figures.

 

[FCBarca]

 

[VoetbalWizard]

class. how's vilanova done so far? any obvious changes from pep? Certain players he will favour more than pep?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I like the way they've made that. Gives you such a good idea of all possible options. What does the 68% for?

This season La Liga will be shown on espnstar in India instead of tenaction. So much better.

 

[FCBarca]

I like the way they've made that. Gives you such a good idea of all possible options. What does the 68% for?

68% of squad from cantera

class. how's vilanova done so far? any obvious changes from pep? Certain players he will favour more than pep?

United friendly will likely give many of us a better idea of what Tito's Barça might look like...I didn't particularly like how relaxed the defense looked against PSG in that 2nd half - I thought or perhaps hoped Tito was going to reinstill the urgency that became inconsistent in the last season with Pep...I didn't see that but perhaps I was expecting too much too soon as Tito has only had the full squad for about a week

One change or wrinkle I noticed straight away is that there's a re-emphasis on the pressure from the attacking trident...Leo looks rested which is comforting...Apart from the bad call for the pk, Alexis has looked sharp...Haven't really seen much of Pedro or Iniesta...Afellay has done well but perhaps not well enough to secure a decent spot in the rotation...Dani, Puyol, Xavi, Busquets & Masch look ready...The younger kids have not been poor but have done little to stand out - Montoya has probably played the worst...Cuenca still on the shelf and Villa yet to play...Rafinha has to step his game up this season or get lost in the logjam of attacking players

Bartra is the big question mark...Does Tito count on him for the season yet or will he go into the market (Agger, Lovren etc.) should Marc fail to convince him against United or the last friendly?

 

[BD]

68% of their players are from La Masia. Thats ridiculous.

 

[BD]

Funny how they claimed Fabregas and Alba. They should be in purple rather than red.

 

[jojojo]

The TV row rumbles on with a meeting today of the top two divisions. It's assumed by the thirteen or so "rebel" Liga clubs that this has been done to stop them winning any votes on any actions to be taken.

The TV money is shrinking, not surprising given the state of the Spanish economy and the cost of Spanish pay TV. In the bidding for this year's free to view matches (a government mandated thing) basically no one bid for the second division rights and some very low bids came in for the first.

The two pay TV companies are at odds with one another and no one really knows which matches are going to be televised and where, despite the league starting on Saturday. The times of the kickoffs seem to have been set to annoy clubs who are signed to one of the channels, including 11pm starts.

Chances are the meeting will end with another "demand" that Mediapro pay the clubs what they are owed and insisting they do a deal with Canal+ to get the cash to do it. Last season the courts ended up forcing a similar deal on Mediapro, but some of the clubs still didn't get paid.

Ah, Sky - what a beautiful company you are

 

[girish]

I like the way they've made that. Gives you such a good idea of all possible options. What does the 68% for?

This season La Liga will be shown on espnstar in India instead of tenaction. So much better.

The cnuts that are DishTV pulled it from all of their packs.

 

[FCBarca]

Spain is a mess for many things and the tv coverage of football is right up there with some of the biggest issues...Sky is lovely by comparison

 

[Trionz]

Cesc in Red?

 

[Levo]

Cesc in Red?

And Alba...

 

[kouroux]

Cesc and Alba did play at La Masia (which was the point of that pic) even if they developed into proper players elsewhere.

 

[Sarni]

Cesc in Red?

He was 16 when he left Barcelona, wasn't he? He had still been developed by them from a very young age by that point.

 

[Trionz]

Well the list would have been impressive if they had not spend 52m to reach 68%.

 

[jojojo]

The squad list for Valencia shows the bleaker story. It's possible/probable that they'll start Sunday's game with Real Madrid with no Spanish players in the team.

CL standard Spanish players are now too expensive for them. While Arsenal were getting their Cazorla bargain, Valencia were still emptying the kids' piggy banks and coming up empty..

 

[Brwned]

Funny how they claimed Fabregas and Alba. They should be in purple rather than red.

They didn't claim Fabregas and Alba as 'theirs', though, they just claimed they are from La Masia...and they are.

 

[kouroux]

Well the list would have been impressive if they had not spend 52m to reach 68%.

Take away Cesc and Alba and they're still doing something no other club in the world is.If that's not impressive then I don't know what is

 

[Sarni]

Well the list would have been impressive if they had not spend 52m to reach 68%.

It's still impressive. Puyol, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi are the best in the world in their positions, no other club in the world has accomplished anything like that in the last decade. We're boasting about how we're producing great players when the likes of Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley wouldn't make it into Barcelona's best XI at all. feck, the whole English system hasn't produced the kind of players Barcelona have in the last 10 years.

 

[Ish]

Yep, there are always pot shots being taken at Barcelona, and alot of times for good/valid reason, but to criticise their academy and their ability in producing "home grown" talent, just reeks of bitterness actually.

That should actually be the 1 area in which they are appplauded/envied, even if they are a bunch of self righteous Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.

 

[jojojo]

Not surprisingly today's Liga meeting ended with lot of promises to talk and consult more more and to try and get the contract/payment rows with one of the TV groups resolved.

Espanyol's representative did admit that he'd spotted the elephant in the living room. "The rest of Europe laughs at us. No one outside understands the proportions (of TV money) here. We want the same system as other leagues. The current arrangement suits two clubs, but the number of objectors is growing."

 

[Sarni]

Yep, there are always pot shots being taken at Barcelona, and alot of times for good/valid reason, but to criticise their academy and their ability in producing "home grown" talent, just reeks of bitterness actually.

That should actually be the 1 area in which they are appplauded/envied, even if they are a bunch of self righteous Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.

Pedro, who usually doesn't make it into their first team and isn't really amongst the best talent they've produced in the recent times, is at least on par with Welbeck that we have all praised continously and used as a proof of our acamedy success. Hell, even someone like Tello would be considered a major talent over here.

 

[Mander]

Not surprisingly today's Liga meeting ended with lot of promises to talk and consult more more and to try and get the contract/payment rows with one of the TV groups resolved.

Espanyol's representative did admit that he'd spotted the elephant in the living room. "The rest of Europe laughs at us. No one outside understands the proportions (of TV money) here. We want the same system as other leagues. The current arrangement suits two clubs, but the number of objectors is growing."

I read on a Barca site (haven't checked their sources, so it may be bollocks) that the Spanish TV deal is - collectively - only the 5th biggest in Europe, behind even France. I may be biased, but surely La Liga is at least on par with Ligue Un in viewership and overall attractiveness (considering Valencia, Atl. Madrid, Athletic, Sevilla, etc., beyond the big two)?

Collective bargaining could increase the pie for the league as a whole, and it needs to be done. Here and now it could decrease the TV money for Barca and Real, but in the long run, it'll make the league stronger, and therefore more attractive... leading to more TV money than without a collective deal. On the same site it was suggested that Spain could go the Serie A route, where clubs are awarded money based on number of fans, success, etc. Could be a compromise between "everybody gets an equal share" and "Barca and Real get half", and might make it easier to reach an agreement.

In the end, there's no league without the other 18 clubs, but take away the big two and the league is just as unattractive.

 

[Gambit]

Long may the current TV deal for Spain continue, and the house of cards collapse from under them.

 

[Snow]

They didn't claim Fabregas and Alba as 'theirs', though, they just claimed they are from La Masia...and they are.

Saying 'made in La Masia' is claiming that they are theirs. Of course they wanted that percentage up a bit to illustrate a point but there really wasn't a need for it. Alba has been at 5 different clubs. He didn't join Valencia from Barcelona. Valencia purchased him for 6k from Cornelia, the team that gave him his first pro contract. When Barcelona bought him this summer I'm sure some of that money went to Cornelia.
Part of him grew up there but he hardly played any football there.

Fontas joined when he was 18 and Cuenca spent about 4 years of his youth career with Barca, the rest with Espanyol and various other teams. They belong in the purple as well unless they rephrase the header.

Don't think there's team in England that's close to that. Eh, maybe Portsmouth.

 

[Homeomorphic]

Alba was born in Barcelona and educated in Barcelona's youth ranks from age 9 until age 16. If Alba shouldn't be labeled as "made in La Masia", despite spending 7 years in La Masia and learning his whole footballing fundament there, then what does that make the likes of Beckham and Neville who joined United at age 16 and were thrown into first team football with 17? Not Manchester United youth products?

 

[Snow]

Beckham didn't join at age 16. He was discovered as a little kid but he lived in London. He went back and forth a lot and signed a schoolboy contract at age 14 when he was allowed to do so. Things work a lot differently in England.

Alba was obviously not considered good enough so he was let go. He joined a very small team and then a couple of years later Valencia pick him up for a minimal fee. They let him play for their reserves. He does well so they loan him to a better team to get experience. He does well there so he gets promoted to the first team.
Players learn a lot and mature a lot as footballers when they finish puberty. There are loads of kids at La Masia between the ages of 10-16. Way way more than at age 16-18. A lot of them learn a lot there but they're hardly footballers by then.

Arsenal gave Cesc his shot. Valencia took Alba to the next level. Saying he's made in La Masia is a slight on other clubs since they took a punt on them at the age where it matters the most. There's no chance in having a 13 year old on your books.

 

[Homeomorphic]

No one claimed that Fabregas and Alba have become the finished articles at Barcelona. Even if they have become world class somewhere else, it doesn't change the fact that they are Barcelona youth products. Really not getting your problem here.

 

[Snow]

I don't have a problem. I recognize La Masia's contribution to their talent. I just agree with some of the others that said that some of them, like Alba and Cesc, should really be purple. If you want to go into specifics those players will would not be considered as home grown when they're registered for the CL.

It's basically just the headline that's off. If it said 'from La Masia' instead of 'made in La Masia' it would be spot on. I just thought there was no need to word it like that. Doesn't make it any more or less impressive if it weren't.

 

[mariachi-19]

No one claimed that Fabregas and Alba have become the finished articles at Barcelona. Even if they have become world class somewhere else, it doesn't change the fact that they are Barcelona youth products. Really not getting your problem here.

Because as players, their true class and development was built at other clubs. If there were not better players than both at the same age, Barca would never have let them go. Key development age of footballers is between 16-21. That is where you find out if they have it or it was just youthful talent and those two developed at other clubs in that time period.

 

[FCBarca]

Because as players, their true class and development was built at other clubs. If there were not better players than both at the same age, Barca would never have let them go. Key development age of footballers is between 16-21. That is where you find out if they have it or it was just youthful talent and those two developed at other clubs in that time period.

You're making massive assumptions on two players that you have precious little backstory or information on...That first line, particularly cringeworthy

 

[Trionz]

You're making massive assumptions on two players that you have precious little backstory or information on...That first line, particularly cringeworthy

Because Cesc as a player, his true class and development was built at Arsenal.

 

[FCBarca]

Because Cesc as a player, his true class and development was built at Arsenal.

He won more trophies on the global stage as a youth player at Barcelona than he ever did with Arsenal - that's not much in terms of true class or development

 

[Sarni]

He won more trophies on the global stage as a youth player at Barcelona than he ever did with Arsenal - that's not much in terms of true class or development

He left you at 16. You have to admit that at least 50% if not more of his development was due to Arsenal who started playing him from a very young age and gave him a chance to turn into a top class player.

 

[Trionz]

By that logic, Busquets has more class than say Totti.
In that case, it is suggesting me to go eat some dog shit but be rich, so people can respect me regardless.

 

[FCBarca]

He left you at 16. You have to admit that at least 50% if not more of his development was due to Arsenal who started playing him from a very young age and gave him a chance to turn into a top class player.

I admit only that the player developed at Arsenal but to paint some picture of Wenger unearthing some hidden gem that Barcelona were unaware of or that he wasn't already ascending into a world class player is a narrative that Gooner nation would love to be true when deep down they know this to be fiction...Repeating the same false story over & over again, does not make it a fact

 

[Sarni]

I admit only that the player developed at Arsenal but to paint some picture of Wenger unearthing some hidden gem that Barcelona were unaware of or that he wasn't already ascending into a world class player is a narrative that Gooner nation would love to be true when deep down they know this to be fiction...Repeating the same false story over & over again, does not make it a fact

Fair enough. Barcelona would have gladly kept him if it weren't for the money. They weren't allowed to offer him a professional contract until he turned 18 while Arsenal offered him a contract when he was just 16, am I right?

 

[kouroux]

A lot of ridiculious nit picking when it comes to Alba and Fabregas
It's really stupid

 

[KingEric7]

There's always a subtle sort of aggression and/or jealousy in these Barcelona threads. There are no two ways about it - what Barcelona and Cruyff have done with La Masia is phenomenal, and everyone else should be aspiring to replicate it.

Even if people do not feel Alba and Fabregas qualify (which is perhaps a fair viewpoint), to have produced the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Pique, Busquets, Thiago, etc in such close proximity is absolutely mind-blowing.

 

[Snake Plissken]

There's always a subtle sort of aggression and/or jealousy in these Barcelona threads. There are no two ways about it - what Barcelona and Cruyff have done with La Masia is phenomenal, and everyone else should be aspiring to replicate it.

Even if people do not feel Alba and Fabregas qualify (which is perhaps a fair viewpoint), to have produced the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Pique, Busquets, Thiago, etc in such close proximity is absolutely mind-blowing.

It's blatantly obvious, the same people every time, nit picking the same things every time.

I was reading the match thread when they had the friendly against Utd and I eventually gave up on it because it was so cringeworthy