Should we borrow money to buy class players?
Simple question:
- Thread starter Clueless
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
NO NO NO
what made you think of this in the first place
we are united ffs
what made you think of this in the first place
we are united ffs
It's not money. Milan haven't spent a penny this year. Most clubs in Italy tend to swap players on loan deals to improve their teams.
Problem is, would that sort of stuff be acceptable in England?
Problem is, would that sort of stuff be acceptable in England?
Reflectorboy said:
We are united? Is that your argument? I'm not saying we should sell the stadium to get new players, all I'm saying is that we don't have the funds right now, and IMO we need to invest in new quality players.
Loaning money isn't really a bad business option, as long as it's loans we can handle.
1. We DO have money
2. Loaning money is not necessarily a bad option as long as it is done in a controlled way. But we don't need it.
2. Loaning money is not necessarily a bad option as long as it is done in a controlled way. But we don't need it.
antohan said:
How much do we have to spend this summer on transfers then?
have we sunk to such depths that we need to borrow moneyClueless said:
we are the richest club in the world for goodness sake
and antohan i don't think it will work in the PL and apart from the top3 teams and maybe liverpool and newcastle would you see us swapping players with the other teams??IMHO the quality of players and play in the PL is far apart from serie A and the la liga besides in england the rivality between clubs is huge(not saying that in spain and italy its not)but would you see liverpool swapping players with us?arsenal with us?both of them hate us chelsea?no,newcastle?no
I'm just wondering how much money we have left after Rooney, Saha, Heinze, Smith.
I would prefer loaning money to buy quality players than wasting money on cheap talent like Djemba-Djemba and Kleberson.
I would prefer loaning money to buy quality players than wasting money on cheap talent like Djemba-Djemba and Kleberson.
Clueless said:
We really don't need to buy anyone, except Gattuso.
Clueless said:
How much money was left after Yorke, Stam or Ruud, JSV, Barthez ? Enough to buy Rooney, Saha, Kleb, Heinze, Smith, Djemba etc. To conclude, we don't need to borrow to buy, and we don't even need to buy more than one player.
just like your nick you are cluelessClueless said:
first of all we have the money and if a special player is available under special circumstances we would be able to buy the player(read:rooney)
just to remind you we are the richest club in the world in case you are mistaking us for a certain citeh who are 100++ million plus in debt
and besides taking a loan you need to pay interest
but can we buy Gattuso with our current transfer budget?
If we can, then I'm all for it. If we can't then I vote for loaning some money so that we can get the little fecker.
If we can, then I'm all for it. If we can't then I vote for loaning some money so that we can get the little fecker.
and a keeper and a winger and a centerbackRaoul said:
cheersReflectorboy said:and a keeper and a winger and a centerback
Nah, we're ok there.
yes,another idea,why don't you donate all your money to our transfer budget instead of united loaning money?Clueless said:
Clueless said:
Why wouldn't we be able to ?
nah,silvestre and brown makes too many mistakes at the highest level,giggs is almost at the end of his career,and we need a keeperRaoul said:Nah, we're ok there.
but saying that i don't want us go out and buy all of them in one summer
a goalkeeper and gattuso would be fine this year and centerback and winger the next
Reflectorboy said:nah,silvestre and brown makes too many mistakes at the highest level,giggs is almost at the end of his career,and we need a keeper
but saying that i don't want us go out and buy all of them in one summer
a goalkeeper and gattuso would be fine this year and centerback and winger the next
Ok. Name their mistakes and then maybe we can see eye to eye on this.
Keeper - I doubt there will be changes, other than Carroll leaving.
Giggs - Can't see any changes there either.
Raoul said:
If we don't have enough money, we don't have enough money
All I'm saying is, if we have to, we should loan money to get the players we need. Loaning money to buy a player who'll improve our team is just an investment IMO. If it makes us reach CL semi-finals it will be a good investment too.
giggs will be leaving in 2 years and i doubt he can still do the job in CL and if giggs or ronaldo gets injured at one time we are left dead with no cover on the wings(maybe ole can still do the job there fingers cross)but we still need to buy a winger latest by the next 2 seasonsRaoul said:
carroll and ricardo is leaving so it leaves us with howard,fergie will buy one
as for browns and silvestre's mistake.....well it is all for us too see,i can't tell you every single one, i don't have a computer memory
but it is the least of our pirorities nowhow do you know we don't have money?Clueless said:If we don't have enough money, we don't have enough money
All I'm saying is, if we have to, we should loan money to get the players we need. Loaning money to buy a player who'll improve our team is just an investment IMO. If it makes us reach CL semi-finals it will be a good investment too.
Reflectorboy said:giggs will be leaving in 2 years and i doubt he can still do the job in CL and if giggs or ronaldo gets injured at one time we are left dead with no cover on the wings(maybe ole can still do the job there fingers cross)but we still need to buy a winger latest by the next 2 seasons
carroll and ricardo is leaving so it leaves us with howard,fergie will buy one
as for browns and silvestre's mistake.....well it is all for us too see,i can't tell you every single one, i don't have a computer memory
A winger the summer after this one might be in the cards. I think Giggs is still playing at a very high level and he was more of a nuisance to their defenders than any other player. I don't think Ricardo is going anywhere, but Carroll probably will.
Reflectorboy said:
Which partly explains why smaller teams stand a chance in Italy and Spain while they don't here. As they get better, they push the top teams to a new level.
I agree we will never get a promising scouser loaned to us. But sure they can be loaned to smaller teams (e.g. Forssell did well for Brum last year, Pennant as well...).
In terms of receiving, Morientes went to Monaco (why not OT, instead of buying Saha?), Portillo went to Fiorentina... Continental clubs generally seem better at getting bargain free transfers.
The thing is we have this thing about players being rejects or mercenaries. If you want to avoid rejects and mercenaries all you are left with are good players that the current club doesn't want to let go off, i.e. high transfer fees.
PS: Clueless, we do have money, whether we are willing to part with it is a different matter, the source of finance is irrelevant.
i think ricardo's contract is up in the summerRaoul said:
well taken your point about giggs but we are still short on cover on the wings but for the moment we can take a gamble and leave it there until as you say 2 more years because we have more important things to fill up..eg DM and GK
Reflectorboy said:
We might also use Giggs and Keane's eventual departures and the possible arrival of a player like Gattuso to adjust our formation to something that is more midfield than wing centric. There will always be players like Vicente available later as well.
Reflectorboy said:
Ricardo's contract is up in the summer and i would be very suprised if he was offered a new one, with Carroll also looking like he's on the way out a keeper is the main aim this summer. We also need a midfield player to replace Keane and play alongside Fletcher (although keane still has alot to offer). If we are sticking with our current formation we dont really need another winger because we play more with 3 behind 1 striker with Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs, Scholes, Smith, Bellion and even Rossi being able to fill those positions.
so raoul a keeper is definately on the cardsCantonaVeron said:
Reflectorboy said:
Sounds like we're getting two new reserve keepers.
you think howard will be good enough for the whole of next season?Raoul said:Sounds like we're getting two new reserve keepers.
Reflectorboy said:
Yes. He's got the ability and he's only going to improve with experience. Athletically, he's better than the rest, and I've been impressed with his form since his return.
me too but he has alot to learn and his mental strength is suspect,we need a finish article that won't cost us much,a couple of names has been thrown around,neimi would be fine for a couple of seasonRaoul said:
Raoul said:
Define the rest?
and if you have been impressed with his form since he came back thank god your not making decissions at Utd
what has howard done wrong since his return?nothing except his kicking at the end of the milan matchCantonaVeron said:
You are joaking, right?Clueless said:
Reflectorboy said:
I know you disagree but he should have saved the goal but i aint argueing that on two posts.. his kicking was atrocias whats he done too impress you? Also i asked to define the rest because if what was meant was better than everyone in the world
i know you didn't write that but...No the team we.ve got is good enough
Clueless said:
No.
err you are taking the piss.
The reason I started this thread was because I read this article over at Red Issue:
http://www.redissue.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=210477
This from Tim Rich in the Telegraph
In defeat there was all of Sir Alex Ferguson's old defiance. AC Milan may have won the tie, they may even go on to lift the European Cup but with five of Carlo Ancelotti's players over 30, their moment could only be now. Tomorrow would belong to his Manchester United side, with Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney, Rio Ferdinand, Gabriel Heinze and Alan Smith all under 25.
However, if the future is United's, then they are going backwards into it. Since losing their European Cup semi-final to Bayer Leverkusen in 2002, Ferguson's teams have produced a worse display with each succeeding year. Quarter-finalists in 2003, beaten unluckily by Porto at the first knockout hurdle last year, overcome comfortably by Milan at the same stage this time around.
When, three years ago, United returned from Germany having lost Ferguson the chance to play Real Madrid in a European Cup final in his native Glasgow, his captain, Roy Keane, reacted with cold fury. He demanded a major overhaul at Old Trafford and in his autobiography, published later that year, claimed Manchester United were a club living on the memories of winning the Treble. "Yesterday's heroes" he called them.
In Europe, at least, they are slowly sinking. Take away that astonishing season of 1998-99 and Manchester United's record in Champions League knockout football is damningly ordinary. Of their 20 such matches in the Champions League, United have won four. In the group stages, especially at Old Trafford, United still cut a formidable figure but you would have to go back to Feb 2003 for their last truly convincing away display, the sweeping aside of Juventus in Turin.
Manchester United are routinely described as the wealthiest football club in the world, yet relatively little of that appears to transfer to the pitch. Milan's bench on Tuesday was jammed with ability - Tomasson, Serginho, Costacurta and Inzaghi. Andrei Shevchenko, the European footballer of the year, was not missed. United's substitutes, Smith, Phil Neville, David Bellion, John O'Shea and Quinton Fortune were not in that class.
Admirably, debt has long been treated with suspicion by United's board. However, some borrowing will have to be entered into if Ferguson is to land a world-class goalkeeper and overhaul a midfield too reliant on the ageing shoulders of Keane, Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes, men to whom tomorrow does not belong. 2002: Semi-finalists. Lost to Bayer Leverkusen on the away-goals rule. The Germans secured a 2-2 draw in the first leg at Old Trafford and cancelled out Roy Keane's opener in the BayArena.
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Just trying to start a debate. Sorry if I was taking a piss...
http://www.redissue.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=210477
This from Tim Rich in the Telegraph
In defeat there was all of Sir Alex Ferguson's old defiance. AC Milan may have won the tie, they may even go on to lift the European Cup but with five of Carlo Ancelotti's players over 30, their moment could only be now. Tomorrow would belong to his Manchester United side, with Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney, Rio Ferdinand, Gabriel Heinze and Alan Smith all under 25.
However, if the future is United's, then they are going backwards into it. Since losing their European Cup semi-final to Bayer Leverkusen in 2002, Ferguson's teams have produced a worse display with each succeeding year. Quarter-finalists in 2003, beaten unluckily by Porto at the first knockout hurdle last year, overcome comfortably by Milan at the same stage this time around.
When, three years ago, United returned from Germany having lost Ferguson the chance to play Real Madrid in a European Cup final in his native Glasgow, his captain, Roy Keane, reacted with cold fury. He demanded a major overhaul at Old Trafford and in his autobiography, published later that year, claimed Manchester United were a club living on the memories of winning the Treble. "Yesterday's heroes" he called them.
In Europe, at least, they are slowly sinking. Take away that astonishing season of 1998-99 and Manchester United's record in Champions League knockout football is damningly ordinary. Of their 20 such matches in the Champions League, United have won four. In the group stages, especially at Old Trafford, United still cut a formidable figure but you would have to go back to Feb 2003 for their last truly convincing away display, the sweeping aside of Juventus in Turin.
Manchester United are routinely described as the wealthiest football club in the world, yet relatively little of that appears to transfer to the pitch. Milan's bench on Tuesday was jammed with ability - Tomasson, Serginho, Costacurta and Inzaghi. Andrei Shevchenko, the European footballer of the year, was not missed. United's substitutes, Smith, Phil Neville, David Bellion, John O'Shea and Quinton Fortune were not in that class.
Admirably, debt has long been treated with suspicion by United's board. However, some borrowing will have to be entered into if Ferguson is to land a world-class goalkeeper and overhaul a midfield too reliant on the ageing shoulders of Keane, Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes, men to whom tomorrow does not belong. 2002: Semi-finalists. Lost to Bayer Leverkusen on the away-goals rule. The Germans secured a 2-2 draw in the first leg at Old Trafford and cancelled out Roy Keane's opener in the BayArena.
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Just trying to start a debate. Sorry if I was taking a piss...
One thing I can tell you, the more we borrow and use our cash on players, the less likely we are to be taken over. Maybe that's the motivation behind such an otherwise idiotic statement on RedIssue.
CantonaVeron said:
"I have full confidence in Tim. That's why I'm selecting him".
- SAF
Yes, Thank God I'm not making the decisions at Utd.