Is correct.
Serbia vs England U21 - The Incident
- Thread starter Tomalonge
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Is correct.
So no justification whatsoever then, thought as much. Maybe vuc would like to tell people why he's seemingly giving justification to the fans/players for their reactions.
I think it's pretty clear why people are jumping on you, because this was your response to what happened, which really completely fails to take in any sort of context, or even mention the fact that it was clearly fuelled by the racism experienced by Rose throughout the match. Instead of focusing on a clear racial problem throughout and after the game, you attribute it to 'dance around giving it the biggun', which is retarded.
No context in your post at all. A player is racially abused for 90 minutes, they win the match in the last minute, you think he's going to walk off smiling or not display some kind of emotion? Is it not entirely in his right to show a reaction to racism? Who gives a feck if they were dancing, celebrating, ripping their shirts off and shouting 'you cnuts', none of that justifies the reaction they received.
Not really no, but if he was abused all game what about the rest of the black players? Why in one of those video clips does it show a player shaking hands with a black english player on the floor? Why did they just target Rose in specific? Why did our FA specifically come out and say that Rose was vulgar? I don't get how one player ONLY would be targeted by racists when if they are racists why don't they boo any black player?
As for the FA response. It might be that they are trying to deny it as you say but it's pretty futile as it's clear there was racist chanting.
Last response I can't be fecked to discuss this more - Serbia will more than likely be banned and I won't protest because this will be a strike too many.
Q. If the Serbian players were aware of the racist abuse Rose had suffered, does that make their reactions to his celebrations racist in nature? I think so, but I'm too tired to really get into why.
Validity?
On another note, I hate this fecking idea of players provoking a crowd/inciting a riot etc. It's one (or maybe a few) guys against a few hundred or thousand. If the fans are capable of giving it out, don't expect the players not to give a bit back. If you're such an enormous dripping fanny that you get all teary-eyed and precious when that happens, don't be surprised if people call you on your bullshit.
I should say, that doesn't relate to vuc. I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying, but I think he is closer to "well what did they expect?" than "they deserved what they got" which people don't seem to be acknowledging.
I should say, that doesn't relate to vuc. I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying, but I think he is closer to "well what did they expect?" than "they deserved what they got" which people don't seem to be acknowledging.
I'm not sure about the player on the floor, but to me he looked pretty upset by it all.
Like 90% of people I've only seen the youtube footage of monkey chanting seemingly directed at Rose, but I'd be surprised if that wasn't happening towards the other black players too at points during the game. I don't know if any others have made accusations?
Sordell was also racially abused.
Rose presumably celebrated more extravagantly at the end which led to the Serbians attacking him.
Celebrating a goal after 90 minutes+ of racist abuse = deserved in your book though. "Don't come to Serbia givin' it the biggun, ya black b******s!!!"
Can we make this clear by the way. Not every Serb yesterday was a racist prick, there were several players and coaching staff that were actually trying to calm things down and get the England players off the pitch safely.
The Referee should be suspended for what its worth. That was utterly shambolic.
The Referee should be suspended for what its worth. That was utterly shambolic.
I think everyone understands that, by all accounts there was no racism coming form the Serbian players & staff.
However.... the players reaction to Rose at the end was fecking pathetic.
Rose was probably the most defiant of the lot, the most emotional, or if you want the least restrained. That's not to say others weren't racially abused.
He's the only one they can make any complaints about, thus he gets all the blame and deflection.
It's fascinating how you can in the same post conclude that the FA are basically outright lying about racism, but then express bewilderment at people's refusal to believe their 'Rose was the bad guy' shit.
Brophs I'm sorry to say, despite your best efforts and a very kind attempt to clarify vuc's thoughts, they are still opaque to me. What do you, what does he mean "what did they expect"? Not to get racially abused I hope.
Another opinion from wwwww from the newbie's forum, he politely asked me via PM to add it into this thread.
read this bit on the Sky news website.
From The Serbian FA And while most of the English team players celebrated the score, their player number three, Danny Rose, behaved in inappropriate, unsportsmanlike and vulgar manner towards the supporters on the stands at the stadium in Krusevac, and for that he was shown a red card.
Was he not sent off for kicking something after the game finished ?
From The Serbian FA And while most of the English team players celebrated the score, their player number three, Danny Rose, behaved in inappropriate, unsportsmanlike and vulgar manner towards the supporters on the stands at the stadium in Krusevac, and for that he was shown a red card.
Was he not sent off for kicking something after the game finished ?
Ban them.
@ that statement from the Serbian FA. The classic Shaggy defence.
The fact that they refuse to even acknowledge that there was any racism in the ground last night tells you all you need to know about how serious they are about cleaning up that element of their support. Absolutely deplorable.
The racism is vile.
Time for zero tolerance policy - you chant racist shit, you lose the game and play the next home game in an empty stadium.
Monkey chants? Shows the true nature of those dispicable fans. And for the ones that did the chanting, they made all the other people in the stadium (probably the majority) seem like racists too.
I've personally never had to deal with racism (well, I'm white and live in the most multi-cultural place in the world where all people get along peacefully) but if I did hear that shit I would freak the feck out.
Imagine thousands of people chanting monkey noises. Makes my blood boil and I'm not black.
Time for zero tolerance because this is bullshit and just injects so much negativity in our world that is crying out for some kind of positive change.
feckers.
Time for zero tolerance policy - you chant racist shit, you lose the game and play the next home game in an empty stadium.
Monkey chants? Shows the true nature of those dispicable fans. And for the ones that did the chanting, they made all the other people in the stadium (probably the majority) seem like racists too.
I've personally never had to deal with racism (well, I'm white and live in the most multi-cultural place in the world where all people get along peacefully) but if I did hear that shit I would freak the feck out.
Imagine thousands of people chanting monkey noises. Makes my blood boil and I'm not black.
Time for zero tolerance because this is bullshit and just injects so much negativity in our world that is crying out for some kind of positive change.
feckers.
Yeah, he's said a lot of strange things, but he's not saying the players deserved racist abuse, just that they naturally would have gotten a reaction.
Which is true, opposition player taunts fans, fans react. Obvious. Common sense.
However, the reaction they chose was bollocks. Racism isn't on, period. Yes the England players should have expected a reaction from the Serbian fans, but that reaction shouldn't have been racist abuse or missiles. It should have been your generic booing/telling them to feck off like most fans do to most opp players.
On a side note, I don't agree that Serbia should be banned from International football indefinately. How exactly do you control your fans before the end of the game? Use every steward you currently have in the stadium to eject hundreds of people? SAF appeals every year to the United fans not to do something stupid at Anfield and yet it happens. Is it United or SAFs fault? No. It's the people involved that are at fault.
I'd be satisfied with retrospective action by the Serbian FA such as identifying those involved and banning them, which unfortunately isn't coming. Their response is a disgrace, I liked that they have admitted their own staff were out of order and will be responding appropriately but it's unbelievable to see how they talk about their fans. I'd like to see UEFA come down hard on Serbia and make them take action against the fans involved. A ban is too knee jerk and emotive. After all we were a lot less bothered by Terry/Suarez getting peanuts for their racism so why should it be much different. I think Mockney suggested games behind closed doors which would also be appropriate.
What a terrible idea. While we're at it, why don't we dock United points every time some spastic in our crowd sings Hillsborough songs? Or, we could just take retrospective action against the people involved, rather than punishing the football team who aren't physically able to stop a random dickhead from shouting something disgusting.
good point evil geko...rose clearly did a monkey symbol at the end and all the serbians were doing was doing it back to him whilst saying as if we would do something like that....
nice one
nice one
All of England got banned from Europe for years because of Liverpool-fans. And you know what? It fecking worked.
So I'll say it again, maybe United should be banned from the Premier League next time some spastics in the crowd shout something the club are powerless to stop them shouting?
Or, more sensibly, action could be taken against those responsible.
Sounds like an embittered man, which is somewhat understandable given his brothers recent case. He'll be at a loss though, to point out a game 'in his own house' that featured a large portion of the stadium very convincingly impersonating monkeys. And at a bigger loss still to point to any incident of racism that wasn't looked at or dealt with, whether he agrees with specific ban lengths or not.
Our FA on the other hand geko, has it's head buried in the sand, about stuff that even you don't bother to deny. That's disgraceful, even for a country with such a distinguished history of concealment.
feck YES.
If huge portions of the United crowd do monkey chants and no amount of previous fines etc get the club to control them....
Yes, we should be fecking kicked out.
So, what can the club do to stop it when dickheads decide to shout out especially in large numbers? Why is banning people who had nothing to do with it, better than simply banning the people who were at fault?
The action should be taken after the game, with a proper investigation into who the offenders were, and sanctions against each of them.
The fact that you think a club have magical powers that stop someone from shouting something is ludicrous to me. I'm not sure what you expect them to do at the time. They have the power to take action after the game, after completing a proper investigation. Which is what I would expect to happen.
I like hokw VUC calls everyone morons, then proceeds to say cause is greater than effect.
What was the cause of all this again?
What was the cause of all this again?
It's up to the club/national team to indentify these pricks and ban them, but if the club/national team don't do this despite it happening many times then something more has to fecking happen of course.
Instead of trying to find and ban these cnuts, Serbia's FA are trying to fecking deny it.
There's a reason repeat offenders get tougher sentences.
And that's what will very likely happen in the coming weeks. UEFA will come down on them I imagine.
Banning the Serbian FA is ridiculous. The Serbian FA are not repeat offenders. Their fans are. Since we've established it's not possible to stop them from shouting shit, but it is possible for them to take action afterwards, hopefully that's what gets done. Racism has no place in football and we shouldn't be tolerant of it, but we should punish those reponsible. Not the next best option.
The Serbian FA are at fault for not clamping down on this after plenty of previous incidents, instead of trying to take action afterwards, they prefer to blame the opposition and deny any racism.
That is fecking their FAULT!
But if they don't punish those responsible, that is the point here. This has happened many times before, they just ignore it and pay the fine.
In these circumstances tougher sanctions HAVE to happen, I'm amazed you don't understand this.
If the Serbian FA keep fecking it off, and try to sweep it under the carpet, what should we do then? Just ignore it too?
No, we should ask UEFA to intervene. Which we have done. Hopefully they will.
It's been one day. Save calling for bans until the Serbian FA actually do sweep it under the carpet. At the moment it's the followign day, tensions are high, UEFA have yet to get involved. Don't be kneejerk, and just let it pan out.
For all you know, next week UEFA get involved, Serbian FA then conduct an investigation into those involved, ban them from attending Serbian games and voila. What should have been done, has been done. No need to punish the innocent when you could just as easy punish the guilty.
Yes the reply from the Serbian FA was abysmal, so let's see what UEFA do.
I'm just going off previous Zarlak, at some point we have to get tougher, in my opinion that time is now.
They've had enough chances in the past to do the right thing.
They've had enough chances in the past to do the right thing.
Agreed.
Whilst true, as I said earlier, England had a massive problem in the 70's & 80's, the European ban worked a treat on that.
Many were innocent, the clubs/players and plenty of fans, but it worked.
Banning Serbia from competition will make the idiots think again, no question about that, they are passionate about their country and their football team, and you can bet you'd get many MANY fans stopping fellow fans doing idiotic stuff if they knew the consequences.
It might have worked, but so will forcing the Serbian FA to investigate and take retrospective action, under thread of a ban. There isn't only one way to sort this out, so surely you should go for the one that makes the most sense?
The only difference is, your way punishes thousands of innocent people whilst the other way does not.
Banning Serbia will not make idiots think again, they will simply feel victimised and/or have a chip on their shoulder as well as pissing off thousands of match going innocent fans at the same time as hundreds of thousands of fans who follow the team on TV etc.
Why ban the idiots plus the normal people? What advantage does that situation grant, than just banning the idiots doesn't? The idiots get the same treatment.
As I said, we know this happened to all English Club Teams in the 80's and it worked.
Do you have a case of reference where it didn't work?
If the problem is a country wide "epidemic", as it was in England, harsher measures are required I'm afraid. It may be impossible to just single out the guilty.
Ban them right back to the dark ages where they belong. There is no place in modern decent society for these people, let them play 5 a side games against each other its all they deserve
You're completely failing to grasp that there is more than one way to solve this issue, and that another option is better. There is 0 need to punish innocent people, when you can just punish the guilty people. Who gives a shit if punishing everybody works? So does punishing just the guilty people. Therefore it's better. Why would you go with a worse option when there's a better option there?