Gareth Bale is...The most expensive player ever?!

Plato said:
Not sure why you're telling me to lighten up. I'm fine. Here we are on an internet forum, dissecting plain text messages from others. Most of the people we have no personal connection outside of RedCafe but we all find some common ground here. I havent interacted with you enough on this forum to know your style (recently got promoted). Hence, why I took your first sentence literally.

It's quite simple mate. If you use certain adjectives with hyperbolic connotations, do you think people are going to take your points seriously? That's my point. If I say Bale has Hulk-like potential, do you think that's a statement to be taken seriously even though I may mean it? It's not necessarily the use of certain adjectives, it's how you're using them in your overall argument. They're simply not necessary.

You say you recognise his limitations but I think your assessment gives Bale too much credit. You keep saying he's underrated in a certain aspects as if you're defending what you see in him and his potential. I don't think you have an agenda but I think your "bias" comes in the fact that you rate him. I'm not saying you're biased because you rate him.

This is where we disagree then. I maintain he has performed well on certain occasions. Obviously, you think differently. I dont expect anyone to adhere to anything. First and foremost, I'm not a mod. I simply make suggestions. It's up to that poster what they do with the suggestion. I'm not really sure what was the point of saying you're not bothered. I'd be a tad concerned if you were. Again, I only got petty about word choices because I felt it gave off a different impression than what you intended. Maybe I was wrong. After all, I dont know what exactly you're thinking. I can only see what you post on here and even interpreting your posts accurately can be a bit tricky as I alluded to earlier (interpreting plain text).

I try not to go overboard with my word choices because I'm not trying to give one the opportunity to misconstrue my argument. It can happen a lot. Especially if the person you're arguing with is good at making straw-man arguments. That's the background I come from.
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Right I've read everything here....just a couple of points I've highlighted.

Your comparison here is a poor one. If you claimed he has "Hulk-like potential" I would in turn ask you to elaborate on why you feel his potential is "Hulk-like," why you specifically select Hulk as a reference point to Bale.....and also ask you to define what "Hulk-like potential" really is? How do you define something that is so indeterminable? That would be particularly laborious for any sane person wouldn't you agree?

As for the bias well that is simply your interpretation of what consitutes bias. It's clear from my posts that I rate Bale...I've not denied this. I've also suggested he needs to become more versatile and that I'm not particularly comfortable with his commitment to the art of simulation....is that not in some way balanced? You suggested Bale is a good player...does that infer that you also rate him? Are you then biased when you say this? Thing is we all say things that could be misconstrued or taken out of context. It's all interpretation and perception of what makes an objective or fair argument.

In turn my use of the word "devastating" to connote Bale's abilities is based on something that is not truly indistinct. The guy has provided football with some better than average performances in the past two years. For instance the obvious performance against Inter at WHL. That performance in my view allows the use of the word in question as it showcased all the players ability in one 90 minute serving. I said he can be devastating which clearly implies he is not so every time he steps onto a pitch. Not overrating him fella just pointing out the obvious.

Your problem appears to be that you are aiming for a solely objective angle to every argument. You can't expect that here as a lot of what is said will be subjective...but that does not mean these points cannot be taken seriously. Why neglect perfectly understandable points just on the basis that a poster holds a mildly subjective stance? It's two sides of the coin...people provide a counter argument to what they see....balance is attained this way. People can then argue the middle ground, you need different points of view to sustain a debate.

I'm not a politician...I don't use straw-men arguments to draw something out of someone....or to change the angle of a debate. If that's where you come from fair enough, we all like to be in control of our argument. Thing is I don't care about this in everything I post....I like to be subjective at times...and it really does not matter to feck whether someone takes it seriously or not, I'm happy for it to just lie there in all it's "hyperbolically connoted" glory.

It's simple really. I'm just more than comfortable with that.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
Glaston's argument was that Bale is more likely to get voted into the world's second X1!?!? than Rooney. A stupid point when Rooney is in the reigning X1 and had one of his best seasons last time round, in terms of scoring anyway.

Incidentally do City and Chelsea become outdated champions in February?
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I've not mentioned "voting", nor "reigning word XIs" based on 2011 (when it's now nearly 2013) ... this is all your stuff.

In the real world here-and-now it's clearly deluded to believe that Rooney is better than RvP or Falcao or Messi or several other strikers/forwards that no doubt many posters could name.
 
GlastonSpur said:
I've not mentioned "voting", nor "reigning word XIs" based on 2011 (when it's now nearly 2013) ... this is all your stuff.

In the real world here-and-now it's clearly deluded to believe that Rooney is better than RvP or Falcao or Messi or several other strikers/forwards that no doubt many posters could name.
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:lol:

So if Luis Figo says that Bale is amazing, then he's amazing. But when the majority of Players rate Rooney as world class, then they are deluded.
 
GlastonSpur said:
I've not mentioned "voting", nor "reigning word XIs" based on 2011 (when it's now nearly 2013) ... this is all your stuff.

In the real world here-and-now it's clearly deluded to believe that Rooney is better than RvP or Falcao or Messi or several other strikers/forwards that no doubt many posters could name.
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You said that Rooney certainly wouldn't be in the World XI, despite the fact that he is in the most recent World XI as voted for by 50,000 footballers and endorsed by FIFA. He's not better than Messi, obviously, but I'd certainly rate him above RvP and it's hardly clear cut that Falcao is better than him, Rooney had a better GPG ratio last season, scoring one fewer goal in 6 fewer appearances, and plays in a League which is arguably more difficult to score in.

There's absolutely no certainty about Rooney not being in the World XI, much less the second or third teams.
 
KM said:
... So if Luis Figo says that Bale is amazing, then he's amazing. But when the majority of Players rate Rooney as world class, then they are deluded.
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Yet another post based on inaccuracies. Do you actually think that distortion helps your argurment, or is it merely a substitute for anything solid?

First, I didn't say that Figo's opinion proved anything. I simply gave it as an example of how highly Bale has been regarded outside the Red Cafe bubble. If you want more examples then Google is your friend: they're not hard to find.

Second, the operative word is not "rate" (present tense) it's rated (past tense) - based, I presume, on the 2010-2011 season

Bale was on the shortlist for the 2010-11 based World XI, but since then, as we continue on with the 2012-13 season, he has clearly improved further, whilst Rooney has somewhat gone off the boil and several other strikers/forwards have leapt into greater prominence - RvP and Falcao to name but two.

So I maintain that Bale now is closer to world class in his position than Rooney is in his position. The voting results for the 2012 World XI will be announced in January, so you won't have too long to wait to find out if my view is closer to the truth.
 
Rooney goes off the boil every year for a set period of time, and always has people like you who write him off. Rooney is proven talent, Bale isn't. I wish you'd just leave this thread, your delusion is stinking it out.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yet another post based on inaccuracies. Do you actually think that distortion helps your argurment, or is it merely a substitute for anything solid?

First, I didn't say that Figo's opinion proved anything. I simply gave it as an example of how highly Bale has been regarded outside the Red Cafe bubble. If you want more examples then Google is your friend: they're not hard to find.

Second, the operative word is not "rate" (present tense) it's rated (past tense) - based, I presume, on the 2010-2011 season

Bale was on the shortlist for the 2010-11 based World XI, but since then, as we continue on with the 2012-13 season, he has clearly improved further, whilst Rooney has somewhat gone off the boil and several other strikers/forwards have leapt into greater prominence - RvP and Falcao to name but two.

So I maintain that Bale now is closer to world class in his position than Rooney is in his position. The voting results for the 2012 World XI will be announced in January, so you won't have too long to wait to find out if my view is closer to the truth.
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Glaston I am a big Bale fan but stop trying to compare him with Rooney its just wrong on every level. Rooney is a level above right now Bale might get to that level he might even over take him but to date a resounding no way.
 
How is it that Bale is allegedly worth £35-40 million yet nani is worth £12 million? The British press are deluded. nani on his day is unplayable, Bale on his day is very very good, but on a whole, I would say Nani is more consistent
 
Comsmit said:
Right I've read everything here....just a couple of points I've highlighted.

Your comparison here is a poor one. If you claimed he has "Hulk-like potential" I would in turn ask you to elaborate on why you feel his potential is "Hulk-like," why you specifically select Hulk as a reference point to Bale.....and also ask you to define what "Hulk-like potential" really is? How do you define something that is so indeterminable? That would be particularly laborious for any sane person wouldn't you agree?

As for the bias well that is simply your interpretation of what consitutes bias. It's clear from my posts that I rate Bale...I've not denied this. I've also suggested he needs to become more versatile and that I'm not particularly comfortable with his commitment to the art of simulation....is that not in some way balanced? You suggested Bale is a good player...does that infer that you also rate him? Are you then biased when you say this? Thing is we all say things that could be misconstrued or taken out of context. It's all interpretation and perception of what makes an objective or fair argument.

In turn my use of the word "devastating" to connote Bale's abilities is based on something that is not truly indistinct. The guy has provided football with some better than average performances in the past two years. For instance the obvious performance against Inter at WHL. That performance in my view allows the use of the word in question as it showcased all the players ability in one 90 minute serving. I said he can be devastating which clearly implies he is not so every time he steps onto a pitch. Not overrating him fella just pointing out the obvious.

Your problem appears to be that you are aiming for a solely objective angle to every argument. You can't expect that here as a lot of what is said will be subjective...but that does not mean these points cannot be taken seriously. Why neglect perfectly understandable points just on the basis that a poster holds a mildly subjective stance? It's two sides of the coin...people provide a counter argument to what they see....balance is attained this way. People can then argue the middle ground, you need different points of view to sustain a debate.

I'm not a politician...I don't use straw-men arguments to draw something out of someone....or to change the angle of a debate. If that's where you come from fair enough, we all like to be in control of our argument. Thing is I don't care about this in everything I post....I like to be subjective at times...and it really does not matter to feck whether someone takes it seriously or not, I'm happy for it to just lie there in all it's "hyperbolically connoted" glory.

It's simple really. I'm just more than comfortable with that.
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To the bolded part, my point entirely with over-exaggerating.

Yes I did notice you pointed out his diving but more often than not, you seemed to be defending him and mentioning various reasons of why you rate him so much. The impression you gave off hinted at being biased. However, I may have misread your intentions.

I don't think you have to rate a player to recognize how good they are. I can't imagine Ronaldo fanbois saying Messi is shit despite his world class status.

You said both "can be devastating" and something along the lines of "this is what makes him devastating". This is becoming increasingly pedantic now so I don't feel the need to say much more.

What I will say is I don't expect every single argument to be objective or have an objective angle. I recognize on this forum, posters will make subjective comments as I have done myself. It would be ridiculous to hold anyone to such a standard. That being said, I do think when it comes to topics which are highly contentious, choosing to be more subjective over a more accurate viewpoint in my eyes, hurts your argument. In fact, I think it's important to have some sort of framework or general consensus before the arguments proceed but once again, I speak from my background which has shaped a huge part of how I reason. I think being more subjective in a highly contentious situation leaves room for people to simply pick holes and make a counter-argument against a statement which you didn't even intend. I have seen this happen on previous occasions while reading through the mains. From what you said, you have chosen your path and it seems for you it is the path of least resistance (content with "it's "hyperbolically connoted" glory."). Fair enough. It's your choice. Understand I was pointing out what I thought you could do to give your argument more credence as I found some parts unnecessary. You already make well thought out responses but sometimes I do think your phrasing and word choice allows others to misconstrue your original argument. Nonetheless, you seem to be comfortable with this.

I think you're a good poster and your attention to detail factors into the thrust of your arguments. I think you could become an even better poster if you choose to tighten your points up more often but as you admitted, you can't be arsed. Fair dos mate. Each to their own.
 
Plato said:
To the bolded part, my point entirely with over-exaggerating.
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Not really the comparison is weak, and I explained the difference to you. I've also explained why I felt it appropriate to use said adjective with apparent "hyperbolic connotation" to describe something that is not conjecture or hyperbole....something that is evidenced from the player's performances on a football pitch to date.

Plato said:
Yes I did notice you pointed out his diving but more often than not, you seemed to be defending him and mentioning various reasons of why you rate him so much. The impression you gave off hinted at being biased. However, I may have misread your intentions.
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Indeed you have....I've never defended Bale just merely highlighted his qualities. I've also been honest about his shortcomings, as I've already stated.

Plato said:
I don't think you have to rate a player to recognize how good they are. I can't imagine Ronaldo fanbois saying Messi is shit despite his world class status.
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Slight paradox here? Surely you have to "rate" them to establish how good you believe them to be? Or....do you mean you just take it for granted that they are amazing, therefore no rating is necessary? If so I understand your point. Not sure it applies to Bale as he isn't in this bracket...therefore his rating is open to assessment.

Plato said:
You said both "can be devastating" and something along the lines of "this is what makes him devastating". This is becoming increasingly pedantic now so I don't feel the need to say much more.
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Why mention it then? I've already explained in satisfactory detail why I used these words.

Plato said:
That being said, I do think when it comes to topics which are highly contentious, choosing to be more subjective over a more accurate viewpoint in my eyes, hurts your argument.
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Is the Bale thread really.....highly contentious? I'm not sure it is. Some people take themselves a little too seriously but that's all. You are confusing argument with opinion fella...they are not the same thing....think about it.

Plato said:
From what you said, you have chosen your path and it seems for you it is the path of least resistance (content with "it's "hyperbolically connoted" glory."). Fair enough.
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I explained to you that we all like to be in control of our argument....but that I am "comfortable" in posting comments that are in part subjective. This is because I am not afraid to be subjective...and then be held to account for it. To me it is part of the enjoyment of posting on a forum. I like a debate but I'm not fecking obsessed with setting myself up to argue objectively about everything......to me that situation lacks an element of intensity. You are not truly arguing...just waiting to trip people up and be a smug git about it. Back to the straw-man again.

Plato said:
It's your choice. Understand I was pointing out what I thought you could do to give your argument more credence as I found some parts unnecessary. You already make well thought out responses but sometimes I do think your phrasing and word choice allows others to misconstrue your original argument.
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You might want to apply this to yourself, not sure I require it? Again you confuse argument with opinion.

Plato said:
I think you're a good poster and your attention to detail factors into the thrust of your arguments. I think you could become an even better poster if you choose to tighten your points up more often but as you admitted, you can't be arsed. Fair dos mate. Each to their own.
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What the feck!!!.....who's putting words in someone's mouth now? Ostentation is the signal flag of what??? I'm pretty sure you know. Just to clarify, not that I should......I never admitted I "can't be arsed" to do anything, my reasoning is all there in plain English.

Basically you are so astonishingly pretentious you believe someone who doesn't comply with your convaluted method of reasoning is simply a lazy twat?......who cannot possibly be taken as seriously as you take yourself? A true narcissist at work....you are always so easily identifiable :lol:

You just can't help yourselves :rolleyes:
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yet another post based on inaccuracies. Do you actually think that distortion helps your argurment, or is it merely a substitute for anything solid?

First, I didn't say that Figo's opinion proved anything. I simply gave it as an example of how highly Bale has been regarded outside the Red Cafe bubble. If you want more examples then Google is your friend: they're not hard to find.

Second, the operative word is not "rate" (present tense) it's rated (past tense) - based, I presume, on the 2010-2011 season

Bale was on the shortlist for the 2010-11 based World XI, but since then, as we continue on with the 2012-13 season, he has clearly improved further, whilst Rooney has somewhat gone off the boil and several other strikers/forwards have leapt into greater prominence - RvP and Falcao to name but two.

So I maintain that Bale now is closer to world class in his position than Rooney is in his position. The voting results for the 2012 World XI will be announced in January, so you won't have too long to wait to find out if my view is closer to the truth.
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How has Rooney gone off the boil, he scored nearing 40 goals last year and has injured for most of this season so far
 
paceme said:
How has Rooney gone off the boil, he scored nearing 40 goals last year and has injured for most of this season so far
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In all competitions he scored 34 goals - not nearly 40 - and made 6 assists (or so says ESPN stats). However, 6 of his goals in the league from were from pens (I don't know how many of the rest were pens).

So this means he scored 28 goals (at most) from open play, with 6 six assists, in all competitions.

In the same season Bale scored 12 goals from open play (he doesn't take pens for Spurs), with 14 assists.

In other words, from open play Bale scored or directly contributed to 26 goals, whilst Rooney scored or directly contributed to 34 goals.

The one player is a striker/forward. The other is a left winger. The scoring/assist gap between them from open play was 8 goals (across an identical number of games started).

Of itself, I agree that this doesn't show that Rooney has somewhat gone off the boil (although it does show how much Bale has continued to improve following on from his 2010-11 FIFA World XI shortlisting).

But it's more in seeing Rooney play these days - the number of terrible or lack-lustre performances, the inconsistent displays alongside the moments of brilliance - which shows that he's well off any World XI pace.
 
Bale's record against Arsenal, City, Chelsea, United and Liverpool last year: 10 starts (0 subs), 2 goals, 1 assist.

Rooney's record against Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool last year: 11 appearances (1 sub), 12 goals, 1 assist.

There's certainly something laughable about suggesting Bale and Rooney are on the same level.
 
Brwned said:
Ah, a good 'ol stats comparison eh?

Bale's record against Arsenal, City, Chelsea, United and Liverpool last year: 10 starts (0 subs), 2 goals, 1 assist.

Rooney's record against Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool last year: 11 appearances (1 sub), 12 goals, 1 assist.
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Not only that, Rooney contributed a hell lot more to our overall play.
 
GlastonSpur said:
In all competitions he scored 34 goals - not nearly 40 - and made 6 assists (or so says ESPN stats). However, 6 of his goals in the league from were from pens (I don't know how many of the rest were pens).

So this means he scored 28 goals (at most) from open play, with 6 six assists, in all competitions.

In the same season Bale scored 12 goals from open play (he doesn't take pens for Spurs), with 14 assists.

In other words, from open play Bale scored or directly contributed to 26 goals, whilst Rooney scored or directly contributed to 34 goals.

The one player is a striker/forward. The other is a left winger. The scoring/assist gap between them from open play was 8 goals (across an identical number of games started).

Of itself, I agree that this doesn't show that Rooney has somewhat gone off the boil (although it does show how much Bale has continued to improve following on from his 2010-11 FIFA World XI shortlisting).

But it's more in seeing Rooney play these days - the number of terrible or lack-lustre performances, the inconsistent displays alongside the moments of brilliance - which shows that he's well off any World XI pace.
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His general play fell off in the last quarter of 11-12 but since he has come back from injury he has put in two brilliant displays of 'general play' against newcastle and then one against your lot when he came on. You are talking out of your arse here. World class shouldn't be measured by how you stack up against players currently in your position but how good you are. If you took all strikers apart from Heskey and Crouch out of the game that wouldn't mean they were world class :lol:.
 
Does Glaston not get the idea that if he stopped trying to say Bale's one of the very best wingers in the world then there wouldn't be so much Bale hate around here?
 
Would it be okay to infract Glaston for being so stupid?
 
GlastonSpur said:
In all competitions he scored 34 goals - not nearly 40 - and made 6 assists (or so says ESPN stats). However, 6 of his goals in the league from were from pens (I don't know how many of the rest were pens).

So this means he scored 28 goals (at most) from open play, with 6 six assists, in all competitions.

In the same season Bale scored 12 goals from open play (he doesn't take pens for Spurs), with 14 assists.

In other words, from open play Bale scored or directly contributed to 26 goals, whilst Rooney scored or directly contributed to 34 goals.

The one player is a striker/forward. The other is a left winger. The scoring/assist gap between them from open play was 8 goals (across an identical number of games started).

Of itself, I agree that this doesn't show that Rooney has somewhat gone off the boil (although it does show how much Bale has continued to improve following on from his 2010-11 FIFA World XI shortlisting).

But it's more in seeing Rooney play these days - the number of terrible or lack-lustre performances, the inconsistent displays alongside the moments of brilliance - which shows that he's well off any World XI pace.
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You haven't watched Rooney much recently, since his return from injury, have you?

And why have you conveniently removed penalties from the stats? Being able to take good penalties is, like it or not, a real footballing skill, and that Rooney takes them for his club, when Bale doesn't, is actually an interesting contribution to your comparison between both players.
 
Hectic said:
Would it be okay to infract Glaston for being so stupid?
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:lol: I think it would be heartless cause Glaston isn't sane.He's mentally challenged.Talk about having an agenda and shaping your argument towards it.
The truth will be revealed soon and it'll all be too clear that there is still a gulf between Rooney and Bale whether it's in actual football or world XI polls (btw it's an extremely weird thing to argue on)
 
Brwned said:
Bale's record against Arsenal, City, Chelsea, United and Liverpool last year: 10 starts (0 subs), 2 goals, 1 assist.

Rooney's record against Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool last year: 11 appearances (1 sub), 12 goals, 1 assist.

There's certainly something laughable about suggesting Bale and Rooney are on the same level.
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Great figures for Rooney there. He does like a big game to come into his own.

Bale has got a lot of work to do based on these figures....not enough goals but particularly assists for someone who has the talent he does. It looks like he may be expected to carry most of the creative burden for Spurs this season with the departure of Modric & Van der Vaart.
 
Cheesy said:
Does Glaston not get the idea that if he stopped trying to say Bale's one of the very best wingers in the world then there wouldn't be so much Bale hate around here?
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I can't help it if some posters on here can't handle the truth: Bale is now one of the very best wingers in the world - that much is abundantly clear - and I can only wonder at the motives and/or perceptive blindness of those who seek to deny it.

Anyhow, there's no convincing the pre-determined knockers. So I'm content to let the rest of Bale's season unfold as it may.
 
I guess it depends what sort of player you're classing as a winger, considering some may still say Ronaldo's a better winger. Players such as Ribery, Robben, Mata etc are still much better than Bale, so he's got a bit to go until he's up there with them consistently.

Would you say he's one of the best players in the world overall Glaston? Out of interest.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Anyhow, there's no convincing the pre-determined knockers. So I'm content to let the rest of Bale's season unfold as it may.
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Does this mean you won't post about Bale on here any longer? Sounds too good to be true!
 
Bangor_Red said:
How is it that Bale is allegedly worth £35-40 million yet nani is worth £12 million? The British press are deluded. nani on his day is unplayable, Bale on his day is very very good, but on a whole, I would say Nani is more consistent
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Nani more consistent...:wenger:
 
You pick Moyes and Ian Wright? I'd have picked this man.



“But on the pitch, Rooney is the key. I like him - he is a great player, very strong, with a lot of energy. He works hard for the team, holds the ball up well and he is a formidable striker."

“It would be a dream to play with Rooney if Manchester United ever came to the point where they needed to sell him,” Messi said in the Daily Star Sunday. “I would personally go to the Barcelona president and ask that he be signed myself. There are always a handful of players in the world at any one time who can go down in the footballing history books. At the moment, there are maybe (Cristiano) Ronaldo, Rooney, Xavi and one or two more – but I can’t think of one that plays with the desire of Rooney. We all know football players at the top level are blessed with high wages, it’s no secret. But Rooney would play for 100 euros-a-week. You can see the fire in his eyes. It’s that fire which makes him the best of the best.”

Messi feels that were United to ever cash in on Rooney, he could easily become the most expensive player in history. “If Rooney is ever sold, I think he will become the first 100million euro player,” he added. “With all respect to Ronaldo, I think Rooney is a more important player for United than he was. Ronaldo’s ability is undoubted but Rooney is not only the talent but the heart of the Manchester United team. I don’t know if I will ever play with him but, if he ever wants to leave, he is one of the few talents that can improve this Barcelona team.”
 
We can pick them all but it make little to no sense to pre-determined..... :D
 
But I wouldn't bother. I'd just say this.



Glaston is a fecking moron.
 
Lynk said:
You pick Moyes and Ian Wright? I'd have picked this man.



“But on the pitch, Rooney is the key. I like him - he is a great player, very strong, with a lot of energy. He works hard for the team, holds the ball up well and he is a formidable striker."

“It would be a dream to play with Rooney if Manchester United ever came to the point where they needed to sell him,” Messi said in the Daily Star Sunday. “I would personally go to the Barcelona president and ask that he be signed myself. There are always a handful of players in the world at any one time who can go down in the footballing history books. At the moment, there are maybe (Cristiano) Ronaldo, Rooney, Xavi and one or two more – but I can’t think of one that plays with the desire of Rooney. We all know football players at the top level are blessed with high wages, it’s no secret. But Rooney would play for 100 euros-a-week. You can see the fire in his eyes. It’s that fire which makes him the best of the best.”

Messi feels that were United to ever cash in on Rooney, he could easily become the most expensive player in history. “If Rooney is ever sold, I think he will become the first 100million euro player,” he added. “With all respect to Ronaldo, I think Rooney is a more important player for United than he was. Ronaldo’s ability is undoubted but Rooney is not only the talent but the heart of the Manchester United team. I don’t know if I will ever play with him but, if he ever wants to leave, he is one of the few talents that can improve this Barcelona team.”
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Aye good call.....and the thing is you can totally believe it with Messi, he's a pretty humble guy considering his enormous talent and status. Not sure I agree with everything he says but I don't doubt his sincerity.
 
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