Well they have done something about the fighting at the end but have your FA admitted that monkey chants took place yet or are they still in denial? That is the big question.
Serbia vs England U21 - The Incident
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Well they have done something about the fighting at the end but have your FA admitted that monkey chants took place yet or are they still in denial? That is the big question.
Still in denial.
Well let's wait and see if more will come out of it. In the meantime people should just lay off a bit.
I don't think people should lay off anyone who tries to cover up acts of racism.
Get a feeling the Serbian FA are hoping this will get swept under the carpet.
Get a feeling the Serbian FA are hoping this will get swept under the carpet.
Or scratch that. It's not denial it's worse than that, it's a campaign of blaming the victim, disparaging England as much as possible and character assassination of Danny Rose.
Deplorable reaction all things considered, and from the majority of people in Serbia.
Now they've banned a few players for brawl, as if that just fixes everything. fecking head in the sand.
You'd be surprised. Everyone over the age of 30 understands it but young people are idiots. A lot of people genuinely didn't know why it was offensive
I didnt say they aren't whats wrong with young people today.
There's a few key differences here. Serbia has a history of doing this and - most importantly - their FA has so far not actually accepted that there were any racism. Instead they made a video proving that there wasn't. If the Serbian FA had come out and apologised right away this thread would be a lot shorter, seeing as most of this thread is criticism aimed at the Serbian FA for being a bunch of twats.
If you actually read through the thread you'll find posts touching this - I know I've written at least one. I won't write it all again, but I'll give you a few points from it:
- Serbia can behave as they want for all I care, as long as it's not affecting any foreigners who's forced (by UEFA in this case) to go there.
- If Serbia wants to play in UEFA competitions they simply have to follow the rules.
- Apparently they can't even accept they've done something wrong, which is a big part of the reason people want a ban. They've received fines in the past and evidently it hasn't worked. When not even their FA can accept it (and apologise) something is definitely needed.
Slightly off-topic, but didn't Porto complain about City singing "You're not incredible!" in the return leg? That was a bit amusing.
Would you've accepted if Porto had been forced to play behind closed doors for a game or two because of the monkey chants? And what do you think the reaction among your support would've been if that had been the case?
Majority of people? And you base your statistics on what exactly, your gut feeling? I'm not saying issues of racism should be swept under the carpet but being unable to discuss this topic without referring to Karadzic and the siege of fecking Sarajevo is even more deplorable. You're labelling almost an entire country racist, how thick is that!
There's a difference between racism and idiotism. It kinda makes no sense that black players who play in the Serbian league for the domestic team do not experience racism nor monkey chants whilst black English players do. It seems those fecking Serbs are not even consistent in their hatred towards black people, right? Or is it maybe that they just don't like the English? Or is it maybe that there are simply loads of morons doing monkey chants?
No I'm not. I'm not even sure I'd brand all those who behaved like monkeys racist, in a sense that they have deeply rooted hatred for black people. It's more ignorance and insensitivity to the issue.
The reaction to an incident of racism by the majority of people though, is contemptible. And how I know it's the majority, well I simply look around me. I hear what's being said and read what's being written. The ones who condemn racism in relation to this incident are regrettably in a very small minority. Most people are happy to blame the victim instead, point out how England has it's own problems and therefore shouldn't dare to point the finger.
There's no deeply rooted hatred for black people, and it doesn't have to be in order for racism to occur. In the minds of these people, once somebody 'deserves it' it's okay to abuse them in any way possible. They do not realise the difference between an insult of that kind and other forms of abuse. Players who play in domestic leagues are not abused because they don't deserve it. They are good blacks, they behave real nice. Hence the supposed discrepancy.
Ironically, the majority of the comments around this subject from the English Gutmenschen have so far demonstrated an underlying level of racism and ignorance (Serbs are not cosmopolitan, think about Karadzic, don't forget Srebrenica, etc.), bringing nothing to the debate but just causing even more antagonism. The majority of Serbs, I'd argue, have no problem whatsoever tackling racism or any other issue, it's just they're sick of being lectured on morality and ethics by the English.
Should probably stop with the monkey chants then. Just a thought.
That's just an excuse for deflection. It doesn't matter who we are being lectured by. We should be a mature enough society by now to recognise this type of behavior as unacceptable on our own. As it happens, all that notwithstanding, England has done a lot to combat racism and hooliganism in football, and we can learn from that, but perhaps with the unthinkable sacrifice of swallowing a bit of pride.
The majority of the comments on this subject by the English on this board haven't mentioned neither Karadzic nor Srebrenica, that's just factually incorrect.
So, in other words, the Serbs feel that being lectured on racism by the English is laughable? That it's a case of the pot calling the kettle... oh dear.
Any form of criticism towards Serbs coming from the English, American, or German, whether justified or unjustified, is met with counter-criticism. This is hardly surprising.
This is just bizarre.
Seriously, why are you Serbs so nationalistic? (And yes I'm generalizing based on the Caf sample)
No idea what your analogy with the pot and kettle is supposed to mean.
Wouldn't been so bizarre if you were clued up on the events which took place in the last two decades and the portrayal of Serbs in the Western media.
Oh I'm not saying it's surprising, just that it's lamentable, and will only postpone confrontation with the problem which is necessary for it's own sake, irrespective of politics.
That we've been wronged in the past is no excuse for racist chants.
We should be better than that no matter where the criticism is coming from.
The portrayal of Serbs in the western media is not gonna improve by us condoning racism.
we are being racist by arguing against racism, you couldn't make it up! Oh wait, someone just did."Ok boys, we are playing Serbia next. Now ignore the monkey chants, racism and voilence you'll encounter, because it's just their way. Oh and whatever you do, don't point it all out because that's racist"
It's outstanding how you can get the arse with someone using the word majority, when you yourself want to try and justifythe situation, the whole governing body denies it and starts a smear campaign against the victim, and not one single person on here has said how bad it all was. Does that mean the whole country? Of course not. But lets not claim a small minority here.
Unless I'm mistaken and will now get called a racist facist, or some shit
So it's the western media's thought now? Everyone but the real guilty! Victims.
Do you honestly think we find it appaling because we've been taught to loathe serbia? Or is it far more likely that the event, and subsequent denial and smear campaign has got everone's backs up?
Do you honestly think we find it appaling because we've been taught to loathe serbia? Or is it far more likely that the event, and subsequent denial and smear campaign has got everone's backs up?
I insist on the word majority, and I can't repeat it enough. That's the saddest part of this whole thing for me. The reflection on this affair in the general public and the media. It highlights, underlines and exemplifies the root of the problem better than any video you might find on youtube.
"Ok boys, we are playing Serbia next. Now ignore the monkey chants, racism and voilence you'll encounter, because it's just their way. Oh and whatever you do, don't point it all out because that's racist"
It's outstanding how you can get the arse with someone using the word majority, when you yourself want to try and justifythe situation, the whole governing body denies it and starts a smear campaign against the victim, and not one single person on here has said how bad it all was. Does that mean the whole country? Of course not. But lets not claim a small minority here.
Unless I'm mistaken and will now get called a racist facist, or some shit
Are you capable of making the connection and reading my posts in the intended context?
Don't know about the rest of the caf but yes, you do loath them. That at least is my impression.
Are you capable of understanding why we think racism is wrong?
Brilliant, just brilliant. Of course you don't see the hypocrism right there.
You're obviously quite happy with your argument. Excellent. How much of the Serbian media have you read, btw? Which news portals have you been gathering your empirical data from?
It's not hypocrism but hypocrisy. And yes, you're exhibiting it to the fullest.
I usually only buy two papers, Politika, and Blic. I've also borrowed someone else's 'Novosti' the other day, but I've browsed through various online editions of our esteemed press looking for the reaction to this incident, watched some Tv, talked to people.
The unequivocal condemnation of racism and lies that ensued was absent in any of these, which is a disgrace. Selective quotes from twitter, headlines like 'Rio Ferdinand knows Serbs are not racist' and defamation of anything and all England was present instead.
Now I've never claimed I conducted an elaborate study, so your sarcasm is completely misplaced. It is my impression that the overwhelming majority of people in this country are unwilling to deal with this problem. I can't put a percentage on it of course, but if I did it would probably be more accurate than your impression of how many Englishmen have been racist in this thread(something you can actually check with exactitude).
Even the usually disinterested and mild(when it comes to all things political) commentator in the Sunderland game had to make a baseless little snide comment on Danny Rose calling him a weaselly character.
What does the comment about me being happy with my argument suppose to mean I'll never know.
I guess I can be accused of preaching to the choir. Of that I'm probably guilty, but then that's only coincidental.
No, no, no. Rose deserved it and it's our fault and we all hate Serbia! Rejoice!
People can only go by what they have seen which is thuggery by some players and coaches, and racism by some fans, maybe if the guilty fans were kicked out by stewards and banned on the spot it could cut down on what happens in the future.
I didn't notice that, it was glossed over here. I did a search now, and only one or two newspapers reported it and saying Porto was going to file a complain about "incorrect behaviour" from City fans. They didn't specify that, only the English sources quote it like that. But yes, it seems a bit of an unsubstantiated and shallow attempt to get back at City for their complaint.
I think it would be unfair if we got that punishment as we have no precedents and the usual response from UEFA in these cases seems to be the 20k fine. That said, if it happened I don't think it would be a big thing, and it might have the positive impact of putting the Portuguese thinking a bit more about it and probably not repeating it again. From what I glossed in Porto's forum, quite a few fans were were afraid of that and acknowledging "it's our own fault if that shit happens".
Agree that it probably would be harsh after just one incident, but as you say it might send the right message; that it simply will not be tolerated. Thanks for sharing - I like seeing what most fans actually think about it, but as I don't understand Portuguese I figured it'd be a waste of time for me to start researching myself.
I really think it's time UEFA started making the rules much more clear cut though. As you say, the rules you linked only really leaves room for fines when it comes to racism. It's time they put down some rules that specify what happens the first time (I agree that a fine will probably enough then - all sets of fans can have some idiots among them) and what happens if its a repeated offence. Should also be some difference between how severe it is of course - such as how often the chanting occurred and by how large parts of the crowd joined in on it. With all the campaigns going on it's utterly stupid that there's so little punishment and so vague rules.
Henry Winter @henrywinter
Serb police say they've charged 2 unidentified #eng U21s/5 Serbs/both teams' asst coaches for 'act of violence during sports event' via @ap
Serb police say they've charged 2 unidentified #eng U21s/5 Serbs/both teams' asst coaches for 'act of violence during sports event' via @ap
Sounds about right. It would be hypocrisy to ignore the fact that a couple of English players did act stupidly in that brawl. Yes, they were under extreme provocation, and yes more Serbs were involved and clearly did more reprehensible things. But they lashed out, and their have to be consequences.
However, still no sign of any serious action on the disgusting, prolonged racism from the Serbian crowd and allegedly players which was the cause of the violence, and clearly the more significant issue here.
EDIT: Although it looked to be like all our assistant coach did was get assaulted by a couple of their staff. Not sure why he's been charged.
Has this still not been addressed? Are they waiting until the individual cases are over, or have the swept this under the rug? Disgusting if the latter, especially considering the history.