Agree, this could our best 11. I was thinking about exact same formation other day. So much pace, fluidity and possibilities for interchanging.
Shinji Kagawa
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in place of Carrick? Madness.
^ Definitely our best formation. How Kagawa plays in that left wing role will be interesting. Given that we usually have a wide player there who's very direct and incisive in his play, playing Kagawa there would mean a slight change in our system.
I dont like seeing Rooney play as deep as he has done this season, I want to see him further forward scoring goals so for me if we've got Kagawa in the starting XI we go one of two ways....
------------De Gea------------
Rafael---Vidic---Ferdinand---Evra
------------Carrick------------
------Cleverley--Anderson------
------------Kagawa------------
---------RVP------Rooney---------
or
------------De Gea------------
Rafael---Vidic---Ferdinand---Evra
Valencia--Carrick--????--Kagawa
------------Rooney
--------------RVP
Looking forward to Kagawa coming back though, we seem to be clicking more as an attacking unit since he's been out so hopefully rather than fecking that up he'll just add to it
------------De Gea------------
Rafael---Vidic---Ferdinand---Evra
------------Carrick------------
------Cleverley--Anderson------
------------Kagawa------------
---------RVP------Rooney---------
or
------------De Gea------------
Rafael---Vidic---Ferdinand---Evra
Valencia--Carrick--????--Kagawa
------------Rooney
--------------RVP
Looking forward to Kagawa coming back though, we seem to be clicking more as an attacking unit since he's been out so hopefully rather than fecking that up he'll just add to it
I like that formation better. If we do need width, we can always move Cleverley & Rooney out wide and play Kagawa behind RVP.
When's Kagawa going to be back? I seem to remember hearing a 4 week absence bandied around - it feels like it's been an eternity.
Expected back on the 24th.
can't be soon enough. He did go off the boil a little before his injury but early season he was highly impressive.
Seems to be a bit forgotten now.
Maybe because of that injury and all...
For me it is still to do with uncertainty about how he will fit in.
I understand his preferred position is central, behind the striker(s). That is where I like Rooney. So I cant say whether Rooney should be moved - forwards or to the side - to accommodate him in my preferred line up. Or whether Kagawa can also be deployed differently - back or sideways - to keep Rooney where I want him.
Basically, I need to see more of him play so I can get a better feel for what he can and cant do.
Well of course, you genius.
What I am saying is it would be awesome if he comes back soon but he haven't missed him.
Its only a good thing.
Agree completely.
It'll be interesting to see how he's used over the Christmas period, do they play over Christmas in Germany?
Can't wait to see him play some more. In the glimpses he's shown he's been superb to watch.
Even when injured, selling loads of shirts.
Good lad.
Good lad.
Hope he starts playing as the most advanced midfielder in a 3 man midfield. That is his best position and where we could best utilize him. His presence in the team gives a threat through the middle, which we seem to lack at times.
Sooo Rooney goes wide? Up-front? or benched?
Don't think we'll see the best of him until next season.
Hate to say it but I think his injury has been a blessing in disguise. Everyone seems very focussed on blaming the likes of Scholes and Carrick on our poor displays at times this season. When you look at the games in detail, though, the one common theme in our most ineffective displays has been the presence of Kagawa. The Spurs game really highlighted this issue, with a massive improvement in the second half once Kagawa got shunted out wide and Rooney took his place in the centre.
Obviously, it hasn't helped his cause that playing for a Rooneyless United won't bring the best out of many players but it certainly highlights the lunacy of all those suggestions that we drop Rooney and play Kagawa instead.
Hate to say it but I think his injury has been a blessing in disguise. Everyone seems very focussed on blaming the likes of Scholes and Carrick on our poor displays at times this season. When you look at the games in detail, though, the one common theme in our most ineffective displays has been the presence of Kagawa. The Spurs game really highlighted this issue, with a massive improvement in the second half once Kagawa got shunted out wide and Rooney took his place in the centre.
Obviously, it hasn't helped his cause that playing for a Rooneyless United won't bring the best out of many players but it certainly highlights the lunacy of all those suggestions that we drop Rooney and play Kagawa instead.
With the emergence of Hernandez, it'll be difficult for Kagawa to get back into this side unless he really does perform when it comes to cameo appearances.
Pretty central, but I'm personally quite fond of the 4-2-2-2 formation.
Rafael Ferdinand Evans Evra
Carrick Anderson
Kagawa Rooney
Van Persie Hernandez
Carrick Anderson
Kagawa Rooney
Van Persie Hernandez
Pretty central, but I'm personally quite fond of the 4-2-2-2 formation.
Sold.
I am kiddin'.
I was hoping for a fluid formation where RVP, Rooney and him do not have any fixed position and interchange constantly causing the opposition defense problems. Starting positions on paper hardly matter. A front four of Nani, Rooney, RVP and Kagawa can occupy and be useful in any of the attacking positions. If Valencia starts on the right then the fluidity will have to come from the other three.
That looks like a recipe for disaster to me. Rooney will have to constantly drop back in order to fill the holes left by Cleverley and Anderson. Plus, the formation has no width and protection for the full backs. Too attacking and will never work.
What the feck is that?
Some of the formations peope put here wouldn't even work on video games.
He should start on the left instead of Young. Doesnt need to stay out wide, should play more as a AM playing slightly wide.
I don't think we've really used him properly yet, when he's been allowed to play further up the pitch, playing well or not he's made stuff happen, but a fair few times he's been asked to play either a wide left role or stuck in a fixed position in the diamond. I'm hoping fergie is still ubderstanding what sort of player as he is as I don't think he'll either be properly effective in a fixed role like that, particularly out wide. He still looks like he can bring something different with his dribbling ability in the box and intelligence.
Personally I hope we go to a 433, Rooney playing more of an a/m position with kagawa flanking rvp with lisence to roam in the way that hazard, mata and Oscar though. I don't see any reason why Rooney and he couldn't interchange and not having such a fixed defensive position would help him imo. I think I general that's the way forward for our team and mixes the wide play we've built our foundations on with a more modern approach.
Personally I hope we go to a 433, Rooney playing more of an a/m position with kagawa flanking rvp with lisence to roam in the way that hazard, mata and Oscar though. I don't see any reason why Rooney and he couldn't interchange and not having such a fixed defensive position would help him imo. I think I general that's the way forward for our team and mixes the wide play we've built our foundations on with a more modern approach.
Some of the blame for Carrick and Scholes is justified. The one common theme has been our inability to get a player like Kagawa involved in those games. When our Modus operandi is Carrick to Scholes to Valencia then a player like Kagawa in going to be rendered useless more often than not. His game his simple one-two passes while moving the game forward and creating space for the final killer ball. Scholes and Kagawa do not suit each other as they the opposite players. Scholes specialty to find the attacking player on the run and a long pin point pass to him where as Kagawa likes to keep it simple. In the Spurs game, Rooney came and plugged the holes that we were created by the midfield and the attackers playing too far apart.
To get the best out of Kagawa we need to play a more mobile midfield. Some one who can move with Kagawa and has an understanding with him. He is a modern day attacking midfielder and Scholes is an old School English midfielder with old legs. There is virtually no chance of them playing together and excelling.
But the blame there is with fergie surely? He's the one picking scholes and effectively telling the team to play in the way/using kagawa as more of a winger. And it's not like its only in a 442 that kagawa has looked off his game, it's been the same in the diamond where scholes hasn't been on the pitch. The problem for me is that we're asking him to play a more restrictive/disciplined role which his game isn't based on. And when we have played him in the hole we've not really tried to alter out game to adapt to how he plays, we've still tried to maintain our width when we need the wide players to come inside and give options/make runs.
The thing with playing him there is it would most lilkely mean Rooney moving wide left and no room for one of Anderson or Cleverley in the midfield. I think his best bet when he comes back is playing from the left of a front 3.
@Ash_G
I don't think he has played in the "revolutionary" diamond with Scholes? Has he? Have we played diamond with Scholes?
The formation with Scholes has been pretty much 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1.
From the memory I remember Kagawa starting in only one game in the diamond formation and that was at the right with Rooney at the head.
I don't think he has played in the "revolutionary" diamond with Scholes? Has he? Have we played diamond with Scholes?
The formation with Scholes has been pretty much 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1.
From the memory I remember Kagawa starting in only one game in the diamond formation and that was at the right with Rooney at the head.
What the feck is that?
Some of the formations peope put here wouldn't even work on video games.
The chimney formation
A good example of where and how Kagawa fits:
ASTON VILLA GAME
First Half: Rooney was too deep in the midfield. Rooney was almost alongside Scholes and Carrick. This resulted in a lack of link up play with the attacking pair Welbeck and Robin Van Persie, and we got lacked the movement in the midfield.
Kagawa would have fitted in, precisely to link the gap. There is a role and future for Kagawa, he can build attacks and score.
The injury is a minor setback.
ASTON VILLA GAME
First Half: Rooney was too deep in the midfield. Rooney was almost alongside Scholes and Carrick. This resulted in a lack of link up play with the attacking pair Welbeck and Robin Van Persie, and we got lacked the movement in the midfield.
Kagawa would have fitted in, precisely to link the gap. There is a role and future for Kagawa, he can build attacks and score.
The injury is a minor setback.
What the feck is that?
Some of the formations peope put here wouldn't even work on video games.
Brazil used it for years at World Cups.
Like I mentioned, the starting positions are only on paper. Rooney, RVP and Kagawa can interchange and no one needs to be rigid.
There is room for Ando or Clevers as one of the two in the midfield if Kagawa starts as the most advanced midfielder and we adapt towards a 4-3-3 or a lop-sided 4-3-3 with Valencia on the right.
No he hasn't played with scholes, think I said that in my first post not sure. But yeah think he's only played 1 and he didn't look comfortable there until we changed things and stopped making clev and kagawa so fixed in their tucked in wide positions. But I think the point was that its not just then, I mean he's played in other games where it was him carrick and clev in the middle and there were issues. Like I said I thinks it's more the set up of the team and how we've tried to use him.
As did France and Real Madrid if I'm not mistaken?
The magic square with Platini. Euro 2004 as well arguably with Pires coming central.
Which Madrid side are you thinking off, they probably have at some point?
Sure I saw something about them maybe using it at the next one as well? That bloke on BBC.co.uk who does the South American football blog.
IIRC, the front six of the "chimney" that he had was:
Sandro - Romulo
Hulk - ???
Oscar - Kaka
I definitely think if we finally switch to one of the two formations that Rooney's role will be the central one, but I am all for giving Kagawa and Cleverley more freedom to roam as both are good link players with an eye for an opening in the final third and don't benefit from a rigid set up.
Kaka and no Neymar?
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