I think he is individual ability is very close if not equal to those mentioned above. The difference is Kagawa plays differently to all of them despite playing the same/similar positions. Look at how Kagawa and Goetze could play in the same team, they are quite different as players despite having similar abilities.
Shinji Kagawa
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I think he is individual ability is very close if not equal to those mentioned above. The difference is Kagawa plays differently to all of them despite playing the same/similar positions. Look at how Kagawa and Goetze could play in the same team, they are quite different as players despite having similar abilities.
Yeah, I have no doubt that he will improve as you've said its crazy to think his professional career only effectively began 2.5 years ago or something.
I don't think he will ever reach Hazard, Nani, Neymar etc levels in dribbling/ability on the ball. Do you think he will ever be the type of player to dribble past 3 players and unleash a shot? I think that's what some of the other posters were kind of hinting at when they meant individual ability on the ball? Might be wrong though.
Silva, Carzola levels seem fair and within his reach, on second thought. And yeah, Iniesta was nothing special at 23, so you never know in football you're right.
How would you compare him to Oscar who is 21?
He could definitely dribble past 3 players and unleash a shot, but that's not his style.
Dribbing past several players is overrated. Unless you're Messi or Ronaldo, your team will seldom profit from this style. Especially if you're an AM. You use Nani, Neymar and Hazard as examples, which is a bit unfair. Nani is a pure winger, and Neymar is not only a forward/winger, but he's also totally unproven at top level. Hazard is also more of a winger than an AM, if you ask me. Either way, Kagawa is a better player.
At the end of the day I think it's better to have a genius AM who can perform flashy moves occasionally, than a flashy AM who can perform genius moves occasionally.
Lovely backheel for the brilliant last attack which Welbeck messed up.
I love how simple he makes it.
As Scholes and Cleverly do, he constantly makes himself available for a pass, and having players like that will always help you maintain possession. I can't wait to see what this little genius has in store for us, in the long run.
As Scholes and Cleverly do, he constantly makes himself available for a pass, and having players like that will always help you maintain possession. I can't wait to see what this little genius has in store for us, in the long run.
He's the only one remotely near Scholes in terms of his use of the ball, and how easy he makes it look. So graceful, he is simply a more direct, more forward, more physical version of David Silva - not as much of a midfield player I feel.
If a player can dribble past multiple players and actually manage to create something dangerous then their teams are obviously going to profit from it.
Nani isn't really a true winger either. Valencia is more of your traditional winger, and Nani has a lot more to his game. Wouldn't really define Hazard solely as a winger either as he can play in an attacking role. Would struggle to say Kagawa is better than him.
Dribbling isn't just aesthetics. If you play in a role that means that you are often pressured a lot, it is a very useful tool to be able to step away from opponents. Players like Iniesta, Silva or Pirlo are not primarily fancy-dans, they are ultimately productive team players. Yet they are very effective in the situations where they don't/can't immediately get help from their teammates and have to do a bit on their own. Obviously makes them much harder to contain.
I'm not so sure Cheesy I think he is better than Hazard at this moment. I think Hazard has a higher ceiling though to become better. Don't think Hazard has lived up to the hype so far since his move although granted he is quality for his age.
He's not had a lesser impact than Kagawa, so not sure how your point works here.
Whoever turns out the better player between Kagawa and Hazard will be seen by the next few seasons because they're both new, relatively young and one of them has had a bad injury so far.I have happened to watch a lot more football from Hazard than Kagawa and I can only say this that Hazard hasn't been at his best (just like Kagawa) by any stretch.
At Chelsea, he's still in "discovery" mode and once he truly takes more confidence and responsibilit, then his football will sadly get better.
I would say it's the same thing more or less with Kagawa, he's still settling in, the injury hasn't helped but even if he stayed fit since the summer, I wouldn't have expected him to play at a level close to his best this season.
At Chelsea, he's still in "discovery" mode and once he truly takes more confidence and responsibilit, then his football will sadly get better.
I would say it's the same thing more or less with Kagawa, he's still settling in, the injury hasn't helped but even if he stayed fit since the summer, I wouldn't have expected him to play at a level close to his best this season.
Think he's wasted deeper at this moment in time. Would not agree that he was always looking for the ball today; thought he looked a bit more shy looking for it than he usually would in a more advanced position. Possibly due to some nervousness from not being entirely comfortable in his role.
Still looks absolutely class in possession, though. We really need to try him in a wide left role to see if he can do it in this team because it would be so ideal if he could.
Still looks absolutely class in possession, though. We really need to try him in a wide left role to see if he can do it in this team because it would be so ideal if he could.
Wide left or as an advanced midfielder. Came to life when he was in more attacking areas.
Playing him on the left rotating with Rooney is IMO the best option, because he always plays there for Japan and has played there for Dortmund once or twice as well. Whatever the position, he needs to play and the only way to fit rvp, Rooney, kagawa on the pitch together is to have him out there. Both him and Rooney could rotate, much like him and gotze used to when they were at Dortmund and played together.
Anderson Carrick Cleverley
Kagawa Rooney
RVP
Kagawa Rooney
RVP
Not saying this is our best option, or even advisable, just demonstrating that having Kagawa wide is not 'the only way' to fit them all in.
We're wasting him by playing him the deeper positions, play him just behind Rooney and Rvp and he'll excel but I doubt we'll ever play him there. 
Carrick Cleverly
Nani Rooney Kagawa
RVP
We can all dream...
Nani Rooney Kagawa
RVP
We can all dream...
Carrick Cleverly
Nani Rooney Kagawa
RVP
We can all dream...
Nani Rooney Kagawa
RVP
We can all dream...
----------Carrick--Anderson
---Nani-------Rooney-----Kagawa
-------------V. Persie
Pretty close, but this would be the attacking line up I most would like to see when they are all back.
---Nani-------Rooney-----Kagawa
-------------V. Persie
Pretty close, but this would be the attacking line up I most would like to see when they are all back.
I think Oscar is more likely to score spectacular shots and likewise with Hazard, he's more a Ronaldo type player i.e. an out and out matchwinner. Kagawa is more the type to kill you slowly.. he's more of an Iniesta but definitely possesses the attributes to be a regular goalscorer from midfield and an assist machine, though to be fair we've not seen him fully fit and running at players, so might hold back on judging him just yet.
Playing at United and getting used to the Premier League does take time, will be interesting to see how he develops.
Definitely an attacking mid and not a cm. I'd like to see how he would do on the left cutting in.
ditto.
feckin' love me a good old RedCafe ceiling post. Love it.
We will surely see that at some point this season. Surely....
This one for me. Anderson's probably narrowly the better mid individually, but almost every single one of those players is better when Tom's on the pitch, so his overall contribution is bigger.
Of course, either way it's sexy as feck.
Almost.
Swap out Ando and insert Cleverley and you've nailed it.
Ando hasn't done enough to warrant leaping over Cleverley, who's quietly putting in outstanding performances.
Good to see him get some more minutes under his belt after coming back. Hopefully we start him in the FA cup tie now.
He had a rather quite game when coming on I thought. Didn't really set the game on fire, just kept things ticking over, which at 3-0 up isn't a bad thing. I really did love the combination with I think RVP and someone else in extra time before Welbeck messed the move up. Great little touches and movement between those players. Was a great little exchange to watch and shows what could be waiting around the corner for us.
He had a rather quite game when coming on I thought. Didn't really set the game on fire, just kept things ticking over, which at 3-0 up isn't a bad thing. I really did love the combination with I think RVP and someone else in extra time before Welbeck messed the move up. Great little touches and movement between those players. Was a great little exchange to watch and shows what could be waiting around the corner for us.
Hope he starts against West Ham with Hernandez ahead of him and Scholes behind him.
Although cleverley has been great lately, before his injury Anderson was consistently one of our best players every game. People, again, massively underrate him once he's out with an injury. If he ever gets over his injury problems, you can be sure that he'd force his way into the team.
Either way, Anderson or cleverley, that is our best option for me, I just hope the players can stay fit and nani can come back to form.
So here is where you've kinda alluded to the fact that his dribbling ability is right up there with the best, albeit not Messi/Ronaldo standard.
And I compared his ability on the ball to Hazard, Nani, Neymar etc. only because you kinda hinted his dribbling ability was right up there with the best dribblers - something that I was a bit reluctant to agree with.
Anyway I agree with your last sentence - whist dribbling past a few men is a great asset to the team, it's not the be all or end all. It's just that the most complete playmakers often have the ability to play others in, as well as taking a few men on and unleashing a shot themselves - the likes of Zidane, Ronaldinho were able to do both.
Of course those two players are once in a generation talents so it's a bit unfair to compare them to Kagawa.
The whole point is that I think most on here don't rate his dribbling as being right up there, especially based on what we've seen so far.
I just don't like seeing Kagawa defending in deep MF role, he's weak and honestly his still adapting to the defensive side of the game which isn't his strong point.
You'd wanna see Kagawa lurking anywhere around the 18 yard box, playing 1-2's and threading through balls and that is where we bought him to play.
You'd wanna see Kagawa lurking anywhere around the 18 yard box, playing 1-2's and threading through balls and that is where we bought him to play.
His dribbling might not be on Nani's level, but it's definitely better than Rooney's(for instance). Either way, it's pointless to compare Kagawa with wingers/forwards who's MAIN weapon is dribbling/flair. We might as well start comparing his goal scoring abilities with RVP then.
The reason you don't see Kagawa bursting past several players that often, is because he's rarely in a position where that is the correct decision. He's an offensive playmaker. He's said it himself: "I prefer to assist, rather than score." I really doubt that this is the case for Neymar/Nani/Hazard.
Rest assured that Kagawa can dribble. He might not be the best dribbler, but his ball control is impeccable. Combine this skill with intelligence, vision, speed, and world class first touch, and we have a potential world beater. Dribbling becomes nothing but a shallow bonus when you have all this. Especially if you're as two-footed as Kagawa.
But that's just my 2 cents. I feel like there's a new Hazard/Nani every summer. Players like Kagawa are more rare.
So is Kagawa! That is one of the reasons he's being compared with Iniesta and Silva.
He was only put on there as the game was won and he needed minutes.
Forget Nani and Neymar, the comparisons were Gotze, Cazorla, Isco, Silva, etc who are all intelligent players as well.
I only compared him with the likes of Nani/Hazard 'cause it seemed like you were implying his dribbling is right up there! If that's not quite you implied, but you meant he is still a very capable dribbler then fair enough - bit of a pointless argument.
Götze:
When Kagawa was still in Dortmund, he was a better player than Götze. I don't know how much Götze has developed in 6 months, but I highly doubt that he has surpassed Kagawa already. Kagawa is the better player, but Götze might be able to catch up considering his age.
Cazorla
He is 5 years older than Kagawa and plays in a team where it's much easier to shine. If Kagawa isn't the better player already, he's definitely going to be in the future.
Isco:
I haven't seen enough from this player to fairly judge him.
Silva:
He's 3 years older than Kagawa and has much more PL experience. Kagawa is already on par with Silva if you ask me, but Silva is more proven at top level so he's edging it slightly. Still, Kagawa at 23 is much better than Silva at 23.
And there you have it
Kagawa vs Wigan. Doesn't look comfortable deeper in midfield. Love that flick to RVP at the end.
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