Shinji Kagawa

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think that top 4 is a give if we want to have our best players on the pitch at any one time. We could then play two deeper holding/covering/providing midfielders of Carrick and one other with the two full backs providing proper United style width.

Can't really see the drawbacks of this system. We go back to that super-fast interchange football which saw us win the League and CL and still have loads of cover at the back.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
Kagawa's biggest problem is that he's been closed down so quickly and has had defenders on his back all the time, he can't hold up the ball and was never the type of player to do so. His upper body strength is not good enough yet and he's still lacking match fitness.

He had a very heavy touch too yesterday which was unusual from what I"ve seen, but still he's one of those players when he does have the ball and has a bit of space, you'll know he'd make the best possible pass.

It was really nice in the first half seeing him and Scholes controlling the game, both players seemed to find their own space, however in the 2nd half we were trying to play counter attacking football and it didn't work for him as Kagawa couldn't turn his defenders.

Still a long way from Kagawa's best, he's got a future and was our best player in the first month or so, we just gotta keep him fit and keep playing him either behind the striker or maybe give him a free role coming from the left ( Though he'd lose a lot of stamina tracking back the LB, but I guess that's what he must work on ).
Click to expand...

He needs to do some dead lifts and some deep squats for sure. I say pull him and put him on a horse meat diet for a season. Then we can have Shinji Uberawa.
 
Didn't think he played that bad. He was deeper than he would have liked from the looks of it, but largely kept things ticking over. Did look to tire as the game when on, with his touch becoming looser. But that is expected when he is still coming back from injury.

Would like to see him pushed further forward.
 
Watched the game again last night and he looked even worse, he had a couple of nice touches and one pass that he played through which was quite clever but apart from that he looked unfit (which is understandable) but for me the worrying thing he looked physically weak and appeared to either get brushed off the ball or his touch was poor.
 
There's nothing wrong with his touch in general so that's the last thing I'll worry about. He'll get there eventually. If he plays from the left more he won't have his back to goal so much, which is where SAF implied his problems stemmed from
 
I think he just needs to learn to play with some aggresion, he looks too relaxed in a way, a little like berbatov.

He plays like he has got more time on the ball, but then gets hammered by a tackle and cant hold it up.

He will adjust though i am certain, just needs a run of games.
 
I've not seen him in the positions he found himself in while playing for Dortmund so far his short United career. Not sure if that's his own fault or the teams but he does tend to go looking for the ball and has found himself dropping far too deep for my liking.

He's a player that makes things happen in the final third so I'd prefer to see him there more often than not. Hopefully we'll see the best of him for the remainder of the season if he stays injury free.
 
He is dropping too deep, and that was one of his biggest problems against West Ham. He's currently no central midfielder and when he drops as deep as he has been, he will be pounced on and pushed off the ball. It's a simple case of unfamiliar territory on his part.

Still, it's also a major case of fitness and still being relatively new to the league.
 
Shark22 said:
He is dropping too deep, and that was one of his biggest problems against West Ham. He's currently no central midfielder and when he drops as deep as he has been, he will be pounced on and pushed off the ball. It's a simple case of unfamiliar territory on his part.

Still, it's also a major case of fitness and still being relatively new to the league.
Click to expand...

I think that was a problem in the system, because clev/raf both pushed up high, offensively when we had the ball kagawa had to drop to give scholes an option and defensively, as we've seen when rooney plays there, the a/m has to drop in alongside the d/m. This means kagawa is much deeper than he typically would be when we try and counter.

That's the problem with our diamond for me, the two wider midfielders are usually so advanced it means the a/m has to come deep, deeper than they would in a 433.
 
Ash_G said:
I think that was a problem in the system, because clev/raf both pushed up high, offensively when we had the ball kagawa had to drop to give scholes an option and defensively, as we've seen when rooney plays there, the a/m has to drop in alongside the d/m. This means kagawa is much deeper than he typically would be when we try and counter.

That's the problem with our diamond for me, the two wider midfielders are usually so advanced it means the a/m has to come deep, deeper than they would in a 433.
Click to expand...

This.

We would have been much better off just playing 4-4-2 with Kagawa cutting in off the flank as he did during the Spurs game. He's that David Silva type of player who would be much better off ghosting in off the flanks into the danger zone and threading passes through to the strikers.
 
I don't think him dropping deep is an excuse or the crux of the problem. When Rooney plays that role he also likes to drop deep to get on the ball.

Kagawa just needs to do more with the ball. He often gets it and lays it off with a nice first touch but sometimes he needs to pick it up and dictate play. Actually effect what happens on the pitch rather than just be a part of it.

I suspect something like that will come when he becomes more confident in his surroundings at the club. The injury obviously wouldn't have helped.
 
Difficult to effect the play and not be a part of it when he's so deep though. Watching him for Dortmund showed what he's about. Getting it in and around the final third and scoring/creating goals. We have seen glimpses of this already, he's just not getting into those positions often enough.

I hate the diamond system, feels like it was adopted for the likes of Kagawa and Cleverley but I don't think we ever get the best out of the players when we play that system. I'd rather play our normal system and have Kagawa on the left drifting around finding space.

The diamond is just a mess and I hate it really.

To be fair to Kagawa, he's just come back from injury and hasn't really settled into the team yet so I'm probably over analysing it.
 
Trigg said:
Difficult to effect the play and not be a part of it when he's so deep though. Watching him for Dortmund showed what he's about. Getting it in and around the final third and scoring/creating goals. We have seen glimpses of this already, he's just not getting into those positions often enough.

I hate the diamond system, feels like it was adopted for the likes of Kagawa and Cleverley but I don't think we ever get the best out of the players when we play that system. I'd rather play our normal system and have Kagawa on the left drifting around finding space.

The diamond is just a mess and I hate it really.

To be fair to Kagawa, he's just come back from injury and hasn't really settled into the team yet so I'm probably over analysing it.
Click to expand...

The diamond has potential I think but we're going to need 20+ games to really learn if it works for us, you can't write it off after the handful of times we've used it this season. It's never going to work better than our 4-4-2/4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 thing we've played for years in such a short space of time.
 
lunchforthesky said:
The diamond has potential I think but we're going to need 20+ games to really learn if it works for us, you can't write it off after the handful of times we've used it this season. It's never going to work better than our 4-4-2/4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 thing we've played for years in such a short space of time.
Click to expand...

I don't enjoy the football we've played whenever we've used that system thats all. I'm not writing it off as I don't have any say in the matter. But I much prefer the 4-4-2 / 4-2-3-1 variant that we've played at the moment.
 
#Carl said:
I don't think him dropping deep is an excuse or the crux of the problem. When Rooney plays that role he also likes to drop deep to get on the ball.

Kagawa just needs to do more with the ball. He often gets it and lays it off with a nice first touch but sometimes he needs to pick it up and dictate play. Actually effect what happens on the pitch rather than just be a part of it.

I suspect something like that will come when he becomes more confident in his surroundings at the club. The injury obviously wouldn't have helped.
Click to expand...

Rooney plays that role much different to the likes if kagawa, silva, mata, etc, he doesn't look to carry the ball like they do or work around the box in the same way and also for him playing deeper is less if a problem as he's one if the strongest players around, for a kagawa much like silva you want to let them drift, if you make them drop deep out of necessity rather than choice then they're easier to pick up. In the diamond like I said kagawa didn't have any real freedom as he still had to get in next to scholes when we lost the ball.
 
Trigg said:
Difficult to effect the play and not be a part of it when he's so deep though. Watching him for Dortmund showed what he's about. Getting it in and around the final third and scoring/creating goals. We have seen glimpses of this already, he's just not getting into those positions often enough.

I hate the diamond system, feels like it was adopted for the likes of Kagawa and Cleverley but I don't think we ever get the best out of the players when we play that system. I'd rather play our normal system and have Kagawa on the left drifting around finding space.

The diamond is just a mess and I hate it really.

To be fair to Kagawa, he's just come back from injury and hasn't really settled into the team yet so I'm probably over analysing it.
Click to expand...

Ash_G said:
Rooney plays that role much different to the likes if kagawa, silva, mata, etc, he doesn't look to carry the ball like they do or work around the box in the same way and also for him playing deeper is less if a problem as he's one if the strongest players around, for a kagawa much like silva you want to let them drift, if you make them drop deep out of necessity rather than choice then they're easier to pick up. In the diamond like I said kagawa didn't have any real freedom as he still had to get in next to scholes when we lost the ball.
Click to expand...

We didn't play a diamond against West Ham... Did we?
 
lunchforthesky said:
We did to start with.

----------Scholes------------
----Rafael------Cleverley-----
----------Kagawa------------
Click to expand...

Well when did we change? I only missed the first 15mins (thought it was a half past kick off! :mad:) but it looked like:

Rafael Scholes Cleverley Welbeck
--------- Kagawa
-------- Hernandez
 
Yeah was def a diamond, think best example of this is our second goal, the players are really in shape and you can see the diamond quite clearly.
 
Here is a good example of why drinking isn't always good...
 
I didn't notice a diamond either. I thought Rafael was wide right. And I wasn't drinking. Just a little Crystal Meth.
 
lunchforthesky said:
Welbeck was definitely playing as a striker, he was a good 20-30 yards ahead of Rafael all first half.
Click to expand...

I thought Welbeck was wide left :lol:

Don't worry, I know you're right. I wasn't really concentrating. I was tired as shit during the match. Still haven't caught up with my lack of sleep over Christmas and new year.
 
Looked good at times today with some nice touches, dribbling and link-up play. However, I feel he got bullied off the ball too easily and also gave the ball away at times with underhit or sloppy passes.
 
Still not fully fit/adjusted to the league. Probably needs a couple more weeks to get upto scratch - hopefully in time for Real Madrid.

On the ball he is good, but you just feel at the moment his energy, fitness and strength are quite low - looking a bit feeble.

Using a PES description his form is on purple arrow...
 
Saw enough promising signs today to see that he could really fit in well coming off that left hand side. Would not be advised away from home against Aaron Lennon and Walker next week, but as he grows, I think he can hack it regularly.
 
Thought he done quite well today. Was involved in a few nice moves, and was very unlucky with the shot in the 2nd half. Much more promising.
 
Thought he was decent enough today. Showed some good touches. Will get much better.
 
I think he did quite well from the left. Drifted in, good effort on goal and defensively was better than against West Ham. Promising enough to deserve an extended run from the left for me.
 
Again he looked weak and lost, not sure if he's gonna be good enough.
 
Getting back to full fitness and showed an improved performance today. Especially in the second half he did quite well, apart from 1 or 2 occassions.
 
I thought Shinji was very good today. Gave the ball away a few times but Cleverly, Carrick and himself controlled the first half incredibly well with Shinji dropping deep and the slick one touch passing. He is an asset to our squad. Still a bit squishy but he has the X-factor that Nani possesses.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.