Ballon D'or ... who will win it? who deserves it?

So who deserves it and who will win it?

  • Iniesta deserves it and he will win it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Iniesta deserves it but Ronaldo will win it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    171
  • Poll closed .
I was reading the BBC story about this and in the comments was this.

a_proud_devil
11 MINUTES AGO
I say it again: Theo Walcott is the best player ever. Bar none.

Either he is a WUM or only been watching football for about 5 mins.
 
A nice article from La Marca:

http://www.marca.com/2013/01/07/en/football/barcelona/1357577303.html

I'm more interested in picking up prizes with my team than on my own, and other teams did better in that sense". The Argentine assured that he never dreamt of being the best in the world. "As a kid I didn't think about being the best – and I still don't now. I just wanted to play football and enjoy myself".

Such a humble player and human being.
 
I was reading the BBC story about this and in the comments was this.

a_proud_devil
11 MINUTES AGO
I say it again: Theo Walcott is the best player ever. Bar none.

Either he is a WUM or only been watching football for about 5 mins.

Of course its a wum.
 
Delighted messi has broke yet another record by winning it. Lets face it.....it was a one horse race in the end. You could bet your life that every person saying Ronaldo should have won it are either from Portugal or support one of the last teams he has player for.....Not to take anything away from Ronnie who has been incredible also but Messi is not human!
 
Well deserved I think, this award is for best player not which player won the most....



C.Ronaldo failed to show up against Bayern Munich and Spain, if he had done so maybe he would be winning the award. You could argue Messi was the reason Barca even were competing with R.Madrid in the 2nd half of the season because as a team they were clearly better but Messi kept them within distance of Barca but in the end it was too much even for him.

Last season Messi had 73 goals for Barca, the next highest scorer was Alexis & Fabregas with 15. Now for R.Madrid C.Ronaldo had 60, Benzema 32 and Higuain 26. While C.Ronaldo clearly more goals his fellow strikers chipped in with almost 60 goals, Messi didn't have that support hence why R.Madrid won the league.

I disagree with this. The reason Messi has been scoring more and more goals and the rest of Barcelona scoring less and less is because they are gearing up for Messi to be the main (almost sole) goalscorer. Compare nowadays to say 08-09 where Henry scored over 25 and Eto'o/Messi scored over 35.

Barcelona are absolutely raping La Liga right now, but guess what? Messi is the only player with more than 5 league goals, more than 5 times the amount of his nearest team mates. It has nothing to do with him lacking support, it is the polar opposite. Every player is clearly drilled to give the ball to Messi every time and watch him finish.

It is in fact the one of the two arguments against Messi being the best player of 2012 (certainly the best player of Sept 2011-Aug 2012). The fact he won nothing and the fact that he basically has 8 players whose sole purpose is to feed the machine.
 
Indeed, had Villa hadn't been injured, then it would have been even closer to be honest. Asking Pedro, Thiago or other young players to do a mans job is asking a bit too much.

Pedro is among the most experienced players in Spain. A 25 year old player was just voted the best in the world for the 4th year straight. Age is irrelevant compared to experience and maturity.
 
A nice article from La Marca:

http://www.marca.com/2013/01/07/en/football/barcelona/1357577303.html



Such a humble player and human being.

I don't believe him for a second. ;) Not saying when he plays that it's all about him, but I think you can see now when he plays that he's absolutely zoned in on being as great as he possibly can. Gets more frustrated when he's open and doesn't get the pass than he used to, and his game is more geared towards basic productivity than it ever has been (although his role is a huge part of that).

Deserved award tonight, obviously. One of the best seasons by anyone ever, and what's scary is that it's not even clear whether it's been his best season.
 
Tbf I agree with Leo. As crazy as it sounds I thought he was better in the season they won at Wembley than he was last year.

To me his overall contribution just seemed a bit off last season and he looked jaded at times. I think it had a lot to do with Pep's formation tinkering as well.

However he seems back to his godlike self this season. Goalscoring is as good as last year but his overall play is much better.
 
I disagree with this. The reason Messi has been scoring more and more goals and the rest of Barcelona scoring less and less is because they are gearing up for Messi to be the main (almost sole) goalscorer. Compare nowadays to say 08-09 where Henry scored over 25 and Eto'o/Messi scored over 35.

Barcelona are absolutely raping La Liga right now, but guess what? Messi is the only player with more than 5 league goals, more than 5 times the amount of his nearest team mates. It has nothing to do with him lacking support, it is the polar opposite. Every player is clearly drilled to give the ball to Messi every time and watch him finish.

It is in fact the one of the two arguments against Messi being the best player of 2012 (certainly the best player of Sept 2011-Aug 2012). The fact he won nothing and the fact that he basically has 8 players whose sole purpose is to feed the machine.

Someone tell me that stat is wrong.
 
according to this:

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/65

he is right, messi already scored 27 goals :eek:

then four players scored 5: cesc, adriano, xavi and villa

But - Real Madrid is worse - with the difference that Ronaldo does not convert his goals into shots.

If you look at the number of shots at Barcelona
Messi 95
Fabregas 22
Adriano 11
Xavi 27
Villa 10
Pedro 26
Iniesta 20
Tello 9

Look at Real
CR7 138
Higuain 26
Benzema 31
Angel die Maria 32
Sergio Ramos 28
...

Man Utd
RvP 72
Rooney 52
Young 21
Welbeck 23
Evra 14
Rafael 15
....

ManCity
Agüero 57
Tevez 60
Dzeko 42
Balotelli 32
Silva 31
Nasri 15

.....

Bayern

Müller 49
Mandzukic 42
Ribery 38
Kroos 40
Schweinsteiger 23
Shaqiri 17
(funny is that even with Gomez on the field that does not really change - he slightly has some more shots than the others - last year 100, Ribery 71 and Robben in only 18 appearances 70)

............

Falcao only had 58 shots for his 17 goals - his next teammate has 25 and there is another 6 with 15 to 20.
 
But - Real Madrid is worse - with the difference that Ronaldo does not convert his goals into shots.

If you look at the number of shots at Barcelona
Messi 95
Fabregas 22
Adriano 11
Xavi 27
Villa 10
Pedro 26
Iniesta 20
Tello 9

Look at Real
CR7 138
Higuain 26
Benzema 31
Angel die Maria 32
Sergio Ramos 28
...

Man Utd
RvP 72
Rooney 52
Young 21
Welbeck 23
Evra 14
Rafael 15
....

ManCity
Agüero 57
Tevez 60
Dzeko 42
Balotelli 32
Silva 31
Nasri 15

.....

Bayern

Müller 49
Mandzukic 42
Ribery 38
Kroos 40
Schweinsteiger 23
Shaqiri 17
(funny is that even with Gomez on the field that does not really change - he slightly has some more shots than the others - last year 100, Ribery 71 and Robben in only 18 appearances 70)

............

Falcao only had 58 shots for his 17 goals - his next teammate has 25 and there is another 6 with 15 to 20.

Interesting stats for Utd - compared to the rest we don't seem to take nearly as many shots.

I was going to say we should be taking more shots, but we're right up there when it comes to goals scored this season. Bit of a weird one. I do think we should be taking more shots on goal though. RVP and Rooney are fine, but the rest of our squad in general do seem a bit reluctant to shoot (especially with Nani not playing much this season).
 
Messi humble? sure he didn't even vote for Ronaldo.

He voted Iniesta in 1st place, as did fair number of voters. Not voting CR7 in and voting for his mate instead wasn't great but that was a common pattern

He's more humble than Ronaldo.. From the outside at least..

Is that even up for debate? Ronnie's the Portugal captain and for the second year running he's had someone else vote so he could get a 1st place vote :lol:
 
Has he really played that well? Goals galore against the weaker sides and failing to make the difference in the CL (directly responsible for Barca going out) and that El Clasico.

No, he's been really crap these past few years. He literally offers nothing to the team apart from goals, assists and playmaking. Such a poor player that it defies belief that people rate him.
 
Messi should come to England, the strongest league in the world (together with La Liga) and win a few trophies here. Or do something exceptional and go to Italy and sign up for a team ala Napoli, like Maradona did, and win a trophy or two with them. Then we could maybe talk a about him as the greatest player ever. Or he could just stay in Barca and score hundreds of goals against Zaragoza, Granada, and Espanyol. That's fantastic too.
 
One thing that I like with the fact that Messi has won it again, it just pisses off the Ronaldo fans (the most hardcore ones I mean). You can come up with all the arguments you want but there is a reality out there, Messi has owned Ronaldo for a long time now.4 Ballon d'Ors and possibly even more as long as he stays healthy and fit
 
Don't think there's much wrong with the current voting system. As ridiculous as that break up sheet looks, the top three turned out right at the end.
 
Messi should come to England, the strongest league in the world (together with La Liga) and win a few trophies here. Or do something exceptional and go to Italy and sign up for a team ala Napoli, like Maradona did, and win a trophy or two with them. Then we could maybe talk a about him as the greatest player ever. Or he could just stay in Barca and score hundreds of goals against Zaragoza, Granada, and Espanyol. That's fantastic too.

"Maybe"???

I'm sorry to bring bad news, but you can talk about Messi being the greatest player of all time without him going to England or Italy.

I'm NOT saying Messi is greater than Pele, but Messi has already done enough to put an end to any doubts that he might already be the greatest player ever. My vote still goes to Pele, whose numbers for his club (he never played for an English or Italian club, by the way) were astronomical and he was the best player on three World Cup winning sides, though he was out injured in 1962. Pele was the world's best player for 10-12 years. Messi can get there, but he hasn't gotten there yet.
 
One thing that I like with the fact that Messi has won it again, it just pisses off the Ronaldo fans (the most hardcore ones I mean). You can come up with all the arguments you want but there is a reality out there, Messi has owned Ronaldo for a long time now.4 Ballon d'Ors and possibly even more as long as he stays healthy and fit

I don't think ronnie fans get that mad besides cal on here.

I guess you could call me a ronnie fan given in every thread since he's left i've always gone on about 'bringing him back home' and i'd sell rooney to fund it and pretty much won't give up hope (unless he moves to city or summat) of him coming back....

and yet, i'm f a p ping to messi and have no issues with messi being the boss.
 
I don't think ronnie fans get that mad besides cal on here.

I guess you could call me a ronnie fan given in every thread since he's left i've always gone on about 'bringing him back home' and i'd sell rooney to fund it and pretty much won't give up hope (unless he moves to city or summat) of him coming back....

and yet, i'm f a p ping to messi and have no issues with messi being the boss.

I should have said fanbois tbh.Being a simple fan of a player doesn't make one unreasonable and delusional of course.
 
What a cheesy, cringe-inducing production this show was. Who put this shit together?

Sorry, just getting around to watching it now.
 
"Maybe"???

I'm sorry to bring bad news, but you can talk about Messi being the greatest player of all time without him going to England or Italy.

I'm NOT saying Messi is greater than Pele, but Messi has already done enough to put an end to any doubts that he might already be the greatest player ever. My vote still goes to Pele, whose numbers for his club (he never played for an English or Italian club, by the way) were astronomical and he was the best player on three World Cup winning sides, though he was out injured in 1962. Pele was the world's best player for 10-12 years. Messi can get there, but he hasn't gotten there yet.

For me that's the proof that Brazil didn't win three world cups because of Pele, it's more that Pele happened to play for a great Brazilian side. Compare this to Barcelona (at which Messi isn't that great because "he plays with Xavi and Iniesta"), if Messi gets injured Barcelona will have a shot in hell of winning anything..

Having said that, if Messi is to prove that he's the best ever, then he'll have to do it on the biggest stage of all.. A cold rainy night at the Britannica.

It will have to be on Monday as well.
 
I disagree with this. The reason Messi has been scoring more and more goals and the rest of Barcelona scoring less and less is because they are gearing up for Messi to be the main (almost sole) goalscorer. Compare nowadays to say 08-09 where Henry scored over 25 and Eto'o/Messi scored over 35.

Barcelona are absolutely raping La Liga right now, but guess what? Messi is the only player with more than 5 league goals, more than 5 times the amount of his nearest team mates. It has nothing to do with him lacking support, it is the polar opposite. Every player is clearly drilled to give the ball to Messi every time and watch him finish.

It is in fact the one of the two arguments against Messi being the best player of 2012 (certainly the best player of Sept 2011-Aug 2012). The fact he won nothing and the fact that he basically has 8 players whose sole purpose is to feed the machine.

This is why, despite its inherent flaws, statistics are very important in football whether we like it or not. If you're using the parts in bold as one of the main arguments as to why Ronaldo (I'm guessing) deserved to be the best player of 2012, then your argument is fundamentally flawed because the stats (All from whoscored.com) show that last season, Real Madrid were even more geared towards feeding the ball to Ronaldo in attacking areas than Messi. I think we can accept that a player that takes the most amount of shots in a team is the "go to" guy for goals in that team. Most moves end with that player taking the last touch of the ball before he shoots on or off target, this is more pronounced with a player like Ronaldo who is more of an "off the ball" player and likes to make deadly runs behind, rather than be on the ball a lot (like Messi or Rooney). Now, with all this in mind, I'm surprised you think it was Messi who was more dependent on the service of 8 players as you put it, because it certainly wasn't the case.

No of shots by Ronaldo 264, Goals 46
No of shots by the whole of the Real Madrid squad: 732, Goals 121
So, Ronaldo took 36% of Real Madrid shots, and scored 38% of their goals

No of shots taken by Messi 202, goals 50
No of shots by the whole Barcelona squad: 626, goals 114
Messi took 32% of Barcelona's shots, scored 44% of their goals

So what you're seeing there is that Messi was more efficient, took a smaller percentage of shots than Ronaldo relative to their teams (despite his bigger goal scoring burden with Villa out) and scored a higher percentage of goals than Ronaldo did, again relative to their teams.
The difference though is that the rest of the Madrid squad were more clinical than Barca's, hence why Madrid's other players scored more goals than their Barca counterparts.
 
397991_10151485644779305_280518340_n.jpg

Messi winning the Ballon D'or for 2012 was the inevitable but not undeserved result.

In 2009 and 2011 Barca did the Treble (and more) and last year, even though he didn't win any major trophies, Messi broke so many individual records that to my mind it would have been idiotic to claim he wasn't the best in the world.

The only one I disagree with is 2010 where Sneijder should have won it for being an essential element in Inter winning the Treble and Holland getting to the World Cup final.
 
For me that's the proof that Brazil didn't win three world cups because of Pele, it's more that Pele happened to play for a great Brazilian side. Compare this to Barcelona (at which Messi isn't that great because "he plays with Xavi and Iniesta"), if Messi gets injured Barcelona will have a shot in hell of winning anything..

Having said that, if Messi is to prove that he's the best ever, then he'll have to do it on the biggest stage of all.. A cold rainy night at the Britannica.

It will have to be on Monday as well.

Pele was instrumental to Brasil's World Cup wins in both 58 and 70. There's no question that he was Brasil's best player in both 62 and 66. Sadly, he was cut down with injuries in both 62 and 66.

The biggest stage, from a purely footballing though not commercial point of view, is the UEFA Champions League. It's a longer grind that involves significantly better competition than the World Cup. Messi has done quite well against the world's top competition.

That said, Pele schooled his competition in Brasil when all Brasilians stayed in Brasil and tore apart Europeans when it came time to deal with them in the World Cup.

Whatever is between Pele and Messi, it ain't much. Maradona has been bested by an even greater Argie.
 
Messi winning the Ballon D'or for 2012 was the inevitable but not undeserved result.

In 2009 and 2011 Barca did the Treble (and more) and last year, even though he didn't win any major trophies, Messi broke so many individual records that to my mind it would have been idiotic to claim he wasn't the best in the world.

The only one I disagree with is 2010 where Sneijder should have won it for being an essential element in Inter winning the Treble and Holland getting to the World Cup final.

I agree 100 %.Sneijder really deserved it but I think a lot of people underestimate the importance of the August-November period in the final voting.It's like the last impression of a player on memories is the one that sticks out the most, Sneijder was average the season after the treble and world cup.
It may be unfair to he missed out on it but it surely played a role.Just like Ronaldo didn't win it last night (whereas he had a better chance than Messi in August) because Messi has just been too much to keep up with since the start of the season
 
He voted Iniesta in 1st place, as did fair number of voters. Not voting CR7 in and voting for his mate instead wasn't great but that was a common pattern

His 1 - 2 - 3 were his mates. Piss poor voting from the lad. I have to criticise him somehow!
 
Messi deserved it. Its not even up for debate.

It think the top 3 are pretty spot on.

However there sre some jokes in there. RVP should be 4th or 5th for sure.

The team is a bit of joke obviously. Pique? wtf?
 
I should have said fanbois tbh.Being a simple fan of a player doesn't make one unreasonable and delusional of course.

Only as delusional as over half of the actual voters who didn't vote for Messi? :confused:

Whilst Messi being the best player around is a popular opinion, it's by no means agreed to by everyone in the football world.
 
One thing that I like with the fact that Messi has won it again, it just pisses off the Ronaldo fans (the most hardcore ones I mean). You can come up with all the arguments you want but there is a reality out there, Messi has owned Ronaldo for a long time now.4 Ballon d'Ors and possibly even more as long as he stays healthy and fit

It’s nothing to do with Ronaldo fanboyism, it’s just a matter of subjective, personal opinion. I would have spread out the award for the past four years to Sneijder, Ronaldo, and Messi twice. Messi four time in a row is ridiculous. It obviously depends on the parameter you set to determine the best player in the world and to me scoring the most goals is not the only criteria.
 
Only as delusional as over half of the actual voters who didn't vote for Messi? :confused:

Whilst Messi being the best player around is a popular opinion, it's by no means agreed to by everyone in the football world.

Don't be twisting my words now you weirdo.Liking and voting for Ronaldo isn't a pb to me, it's being as obtuse, nitpicking and narrow minded like you.Ronaldo has done well last season but in the end someone was just better.
 
Don't be twisting my words now you weirdo.Liking and voting for Ronaldo isn't a pb to me, it's being as obtuse, nitpicking and narrow minded like you.Ronaldo has done well last season but in the end someone was just better.

That's your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it. Just as the vote breakdown shows, there are plenty of football people around who do not share that opinion.

I just don't get why you Messi fanbois have to throw around your opinions as facts and get all upset when people don't agree?
 
That's your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it. Just as the vote breakdown shows, there are plenty of football people around who do not share that opinion.

I just don't get why you Messi fanbois have to throw around your opinions as facts and get all upset when people don't agree?

I'm showing you how annoying you are to a lot of posters on this forum.I like both players and I have no pb saying they're cnuts when they really are.You on the other hand, I have never seen someone as biased as you towards a single player.

@Mihajlovic: You are absolutely spot on but at the same time Messi is more than goals.His general productivity, involment in football matches go far beyond his incredible scoring record.
When I think of him as the best in the world, "goals" do not automatically come the first in mind.
 
I'm showing you how annoying you are to a lot of posters on this forum.I like both players and I have no pb saying they're cnuts when they really are.You on the other hand, I have never seen someone as biased as you towards a single player.

I've my opinion and stuck to it, that's what forums are for, no?

Messi fanbois on the other hand get all offended if people do not agree that he's the bestest footballer ever ever in every single dimension.