Shinji Kagawa

[manusteve]

Sorry, but I think we should always play with wingers. It´s always more entertaining to watch and width is important I think.

We can get plenty of width from the full-backs. I just don't like forcing non-wingers to play notional wide positions because their effectiveness is reduced significantly.

If we had wingers in some semblance of form and consistency, then I may agree with you but central midfield, as far as I'm concerned, remains weak.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying play without width. I'm just saying we should be less reliant. If you look at the statistics of our play this season, nearly all of our attacking is coming down the wings (mainly right)

I'm just suggesting that if we want to change it up a bit, we could put Kagawa in the position I mentioned and take some of the burden off of the wingers.

So when attacking through the middle, the wide players could cut in and act as wide forwards, with a full back pushing up to provide width

And when attacking down the flanks, Kagawa could burst forward and act as a shadow striker, or whatever people are calling it now.

 

[Platato]

Sorry, but I think we should always play with wingers. It´s always more entertaining to watch and width is important I think.

Hm I wonder what you thought when we mixed it up from 07-10.

Always more entertaining to watch? Not from what this season has served up on the whole.

What's the point of playing wingers when they're not being effective? You can still play with width even if you don't have wingers. People were complaining we had no width against Southampton. Yet, both Kagawa and Welbeck would find themselves on the touchline. They also drifted inwards leaving room for the fullbacks to attack the space.

As long as SAF is here, we will play with some form of width. If we had scored more goals, no one would have really had said anything about width. We have seen the same thing happen when our wingers were on the pitch. Primarily why I argued it's a mental issue in another thread.

What you want is options. I think what LawCharltonBest is saying is fair. We shouldn't be so reliant on our wingers. Does that mean you no longer play with width? Not necessarily but based on what we have, we use it differently.

When Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo were in the team, we still used width. On some occasions, we were quite fluid with it. I just find it strange that a good lot of you seem so opposed to change when we have mixed it up before. It's not like we're actively trying to abandon the use of wingers.

 

[Mad Winger]

He had a pretty awesome game in the 3-0 victory against Latvia today. Easily MOTM! I know that Latvia isn't exactly the strongest opponent in the world, but you could seriously make a youtube compilation based on this match alone. With his quick turns, flicks, clever one-touch-passes, and dangerous through-balls, Latvia just couldn't stop him, no matter how players they used to surround him. He was instrumental in pretty much everything that happened in the attacking third.

He got 2 assists, but could easily have ended up with 6-7, had it not been for offsides and sloppy finishing from his team mates.

 

[Ish]

Great to hear!

I still think we're not using him optimally, but that will come, with more game time and confidence etc.

 

[Tomuś]

We haven't find a way to use him properly yet, and that was the biggest worry since he came here, due to our wide playing style and abundance of talent in the front formation.

We have to do that eventually, he is a real gem.

 

[Chrisjn]

We haven't find a way to use him properly yet, and that was the biggest worry since he came here, due to our wide playing style and abundance of talent in the front formation.

We have to do that eventually, he is a real gem.

My thoughts exactly.

Maybe he is smart enough to adapt his game?

Work in the gym and on expanding his play.

 

[pocco]

I think he's starting to find his form for us and he did look good out wide in recent outings. It's probably better if he does settle into that role as we can't always afford him games in his normal position. Having said that, he's had rave reviews for Japan from a wide position, so its probably just a case of him settling in here. We do seem to allow our wingers more freedom nowadays too which may help him.

 

[Tomuś]

Magnus is right about width I'm afraid. Said the same thing after the Soton game and I stick to that. We've always been at our best when we've played with two wide players, bar few exceptions (Newcastle away). There have been some games when we've chosen not to and we ended up looking extremely clueless - like in fact that Soton game.

Even when Nani/Valencia, or both aren't at their best, we have better balance and idea how to play. Look at our games at SB and Etihad this season - Our wingers were sort of out of form, esp. Valencia, and we still won them both thanks to wing play.

If we are to convert to diamond or whatever fancy named formation, we would have to stick to that for good and stop juggling (unless it's determined by too good opposing midfield, see Barca). Most of our players are too locked into 'wide' formations to switch overnight.

 

[Tomuś]

My thoughts exactly.

Maybe he is smart enough to adapt his game?

Work in the gym and on expanding his play.

He certainly is smart enough to go wide and perform but it's a question whether he will play at his very best there. We've already had too many converted/expanded/sacrificed to the cause players over the last few years. I wouldn't want him to lose even the slightest bit of his attacking qualities in order to become more of an all-rounder. Can we afford that kind of a luxury, though?

Pocco - Japan wide players are nothing like their counterparts from United. They mostly play wide as their stationary position, then drift inside as much as possible. Good point about United allowing their wingers more freedom mind you, it's getting more and more visible this season.

 

[Elliott]

His assists:

 

[Tomuś]

The second assist is laughably good. He really has it in him.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Nice goal by Honda, and the assist to Okazaki's second goal is sweet.

 

[Mad Winger]

Magnus is right about width I'm afraid.

The solution is simple: we let Kagawa play on the left wing. When Rooney is injured or being rested, we let Kagawa play in his natural position.

Kagawa has been switching back and forth between these two positions for around 30 games for Japan. He can deal with it.

I don't think we are dependent on absolute width on both flanks. Nani has never been the type of player that waits out wide and burst down the wing, unless we play him on the right. Rooney wasn't either in the Ronaldo-era.

Our left side can be the fancy link-up side, controlled by Evra, Kagawa and Cleverley(who already play great together, mind you). The right side can be for classical wing-play, supported by Rafael's brilliant bursts.

 

[Donut]

Fantastic pass for that 3rd goal. Shinji will come good, he's just too talented not to.

 

[Tomuś]

The solution is simple: we let Kagawa play on the left wing. When Rooney is injured or being rested, we let Kagawa play in his natural position.

Kagawa has been switching back and forth between these two positions for around 30 games for Japan. He can deal with it.

I don't think we are dependent on absolute width on both flanks. Nani has never been the type of player that waits out wide and burst down the wing, unless we play him on the right. Rooney wasn't either in the Ronaldo-era.

Our left side can be the fancy link-up side, with controlled by Evra, Kagawa and Cleverley(who already play great together, mind you). The right side can be for classical wing-play, supported by Rafael's brilliant bursts.

Almost entirely agree with that but for one thing. Nani, while not a Valencia type of a winger, is still much more of that than Kagawa. Yes, he likes to cut inside and he's got tremendous skill to do that but it takes places further up the pitch, somewhere nearing to the penalty box. What it results in, is that Evra can overlap him and immediately have (mostly) only one defender to beat and about 20 yards to run before he crosses it. We know he can do that.

In Kagawa's case, from what I've observed since he came here, he likes to drift infield as early as in the regions of the circle and that leaves a huge gap on the attacking part of left wing - Evra won't run 50 yards while beating 2/3 players in the process. Obviously, football is not played on paper and Rooney/RvP can both easily fill that gap but it looked a bit of a problem against Southampton.

 

[Tomuś]

The best thing, as Donut said, is that he's so gifted that even in the current state of things he still looks one of our best players.

 

[Shark]

It would be a crime if this lad didn't make it here. I hope that he kicks on from his first half performance vs Southampton now. Super talent.

 

[Brightonian]

Almost entirely agree with that but for one thing. Nani, while not a Valencia type of a winger, is still much more of that than Kagawa. Yes, he likes to cut inside and he's got tremendous skill to do that but it takes places further up the pitch, somewhere nearing to the penalty box. What it results in, is that Evra can overlap him and immediately have (mostly) only one defender to beat and about 20 yards to run before he crosses it. We know he can do that.

In Kagawa's case, from what I've observed since he came here, he likes to drift infield as early as in the regions of the circle and that leaves a huge gap on the attacking part of left wing - Evra won't run 50 yards while beating 2/3 players in the process. Obviously, football is not played on paper and Rooney/RvP can both easily fill that gap but it looked a bit of a problem against Southampton.

That's exactly what Evra does, quite regularly, when on form. He'll make up half the length of the pitch, usually beating at least one player just by the merit of his balance and pace. I agree with you that whilst Nani is no Valencia, he's still a more traditional wide man than Kagawa, most importantly because he crosses, and Kagawa doesn't. But I don't think playing Kagawa there is going to leave a gaping hole. Cleverley likes to drift wide, and Evra is such a good attacking player - particularly at the things which Kagawa won't provide from that side, dribbling and crossing - that the three of them together should give enough cover on the wing.

I agree that we should be playing Kagawa as much as possible, in a wide position if that's the only going space, or in his preferred central position when Rooney is injured/out of form/rested.

 

[Brightonian]

The encouraging thing is that he's been producing stuff like those assists a fair bit for us already, it just hasn't quite come off as often as it should have. He's unlucky not to have more assists and goals already.

 

[Mad Winger]

Nani, while not a Valencia type of a winger, is still much more of that than Kagawa.

Oh, I do agree that Nani is more of winger than Kagawa. Mainly because Nani is a winger, and nothing but a winger

When Kagawa plays out left, he needs the fullback to link up with him. He's not likely to take on players(even though he's more than capable of this), but rather wait for Evra/Rooney/Cleverley. I don't necessarily think that this is a bad plan, considering the material we have. I think it gives us a whole new attacking arsenal, while also making the job for Rooney, Carrick, Cleverley and RVP much easier.

Our CM has been a lot better this season, and I believe that Kagawa and RVP are the main reasons for this. Yes, Cleverley and Ando have both stepped up, but our two new signings give us a whole new boost as far as ball control, passing and link-ups go.

 

[Forevergiggs]

He played 90 minutes this game. Definitely won't start on Sunday. A good chance he'll start against Madrid?

 

[Mad Winger]

A good chance he'll start against Madrid?

It would be weird if he didn't. I just can't see Fergie benching him 3 important games in a row(Fulham, Everton, Real). Especially now that he seems to have found his rythm.

 

[Shark]

The encouraging thing is that he's been producing stuff like those assists a fair bit for us already, it just hasn't quite come off as often as it should have. He's unlucky not to have more assists and goals already.

With the likes of Hernandez, RvP and Rooney the targets he generally aims for, they usually will end up in the back of the net.

It's quite amazing how perfectly weighed his through balls are, he's already one of the best in the world in that regard. I can't wait until he fully adjusts.

 

[Tomuś]

I mean, Evra can do that but we shouldn't expect him to make those runs constantly only to criticize him for leaving gaps later on. He is not a machine after all, however close he is to being one. Neither Kagawa nor Nani have Valencia defending qualities to make up for that and Cleverley, while a hard-worker, shouldn't be left alone to cover that.

 

[Tomuś]

I adore his skill as much as to say he can get even better than Silva or at least as good as him. I genuinely believe that, the guy is a pearl.

 

[Aporkalypse]

That second assist is a thing of beauty.

 

[adamwest]

Damn those are some cheeky passes, nicely done Shinji.

 

[Nate Dogg]

Wow impressive stuff, didn't realise he was that good!

 

[Rozay]

I adore his skill as much as to say he can get even better than Silva or at least as good as him. I genuinely believe that, the guy is a pearl.

I would love that, as Silva is a true genius. Closest thing to Iniesta in our league I reckon, his ability can't be too far behind. I personally think he is more naturally gifted than Shinji, but then again, if Kagawa can supplement any deficit with an increased goal return, then we'll be laughing either way.

 

[Mad Winger]

didn't realise he was that good!

You and a lot of other United supporters, I'm afraid.

The truth is that he pulled off stuff like this every other game for Dortmund, consistently for 2 seasons. That is why he was named the best attacking midfielder of the Bundesliga.

 

[Brightonian]

I would love that, as Silva is a true genius. Closest thing to Iniesta in our league I reckon, his ability can't be too far behind. I personally think he is more naturally gifted than Shinji, but then again, if Kagawa can supplement any deficit with an increased goal return, then we'll be laughing either way.

I don't think he's more naturally gifted. Kagawa's just much more direct, and doesn't look to spend as much time on the ball.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

His flair for a decisive pass is really impressive. From his time at Dortmund, his ability to be in good goalscoring places and his finishing seemed pretty great as well. He's a fantastic little player that will bed into our team progressively and be brilliant for us, I have no doubt about it.

 

[Rozay]

I don't think he's more naturally gifted. Kagawa's just much more direct, and doesn't look to spend as much time on the ball.

Nah, Silva is no ball-hog. He'll play it quick if it's on, and if he's rushed at, he'll skip around two or three players - and then play it. He's unplayable at his best.

 

[dejans]

He had a pretty awesome game in the 3-0 victory against Latvia today. Easily MOTM! I know that Latvia isn't exactly the strongest opponent in the world, but you could seriously make a youtube compilation based on this match alone. With his quick turns, flicks, clever one-touch-passes, and dangerous through-balls, Latvia just couldn't stop him, no matter how players they used to surround him. He was instrumental in pretty much everything that happened in the attacking third.

He got 2 assists, but could easily have ended up with 6-7, had it not been for offsides and sloppy finishing from his team mates.

Yep, he schooled us big time.

 

[Tomuś]

Nah, Silva is no ball-hog. He'll play it quick if it's on, and if he's rushed at, he'll skip around two or three players - and then play it. He's unplayable at his best.

True, but I've seen him hopeless when the things were down. He needs lot of possession, while Kagawa has this lovely factor that he can score out of nothing. Silva too had to take his time to really shine after coming to England. He can also go on a 2/3 months' period when he doesn't perform to his best.

Atm Silva's the better player but once Kagawa fully settles, or rather we find a way to use him appropriately, we'll be able to judge. He's potentially much better a goal-scorer than Silva is. More direct.

 

[Baxter]

Looks like he was playing on the inside left. I think he's been too wide when on the left for us.

 

[SATA]

How i would love to see those coming off for United. It's been due time

 

[Mad Winger]

Atm Silva's the better player but once Kagawa fully settles, or rather we find a way to use him appropriately, we'll be able to judge. He's potentially much better a goal-scorer than Silva is. More direct.

It's worth noting that Kagawa is 3 years younger. Silva at 23 was nowhere near as successful and talented as Kagawa currently is. If we don't count international team trophies, then I'd say Kagawa already is a more successful player than Silva in terms of trophies and goals.

Silva: Copa Del Rey, FA Cup, Premier League.
Kagawa: Bundesliga x 2, German Cup.

Silva for Valencia: 119 apps, 21 goals.
Kagawa for Dortmund: 49 apps, 21 goals.

You could say it's unfair to not include the City years, but Kagawa has only been in the PL for half a season so...

 

[LawCharltonBest]

It's probably just me, but does anyone else see him as a Barcelona type player. He seems the sort of player they would love if they weren't already richly blessed there with Iniesta, Cesc, Xavi... But I salivate at the thought of Kagawa in the current Barcelona team. Maybe a computer game fantasy I'll have to fulfill.

Anyway back to reality, It seems at the moment we are trying to fit him into the way we play, which you can't complain about because we have had a very successful season so far, but it would be nice if over the next few seasons we started to play a style that benefited him more. It would mean less importance on the wingers, but Rooney, Van Persie, Hernandez et all could do wonders with his build up play.