Gareth Bale is...The most expensive player ever?!

RedRover said:
That argument is simply ridiculous - you could say that about any player in the world at any point.

You could just as accurately say he might become even better.

You think Reus is a better player - fair enough. Perhaps Real Madrid will go for him instead - but what would Dortmund want for him? Certainly more than the £14 million they paid - maybe around the £30 - £40 million mark?
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I am saying there is a chance of that simply because, as I said, his game highly depends on physical attributes which are hard to sustain over a long period of time and I don't any significant quality in his technique that would help him to adapt in a different role.

As for Reus, he just moved to Dortmund last summer, and that was what they paid for him so that is his present value. He actually had a stormer of a season before they bought him, so that was pretty much his maximum value. I don't know how much Madrid will pay for him now, they got Ozil, Khedira and Sahin for very cheap and all of them were top names in the Bundesliga when they signed.

It's just the British tags that is increasing his value.
 
finneh said:
If it were known that Bale wanted to move i'd say at least us, City, Chelsea, Real and PSG would be interested, potentially Bayern and Barcelona too.

The bidding would start at around £40-45m.
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Yeah, finneh, but I somehow don't see all those clubs seeing him as THE signing, do you? That's my point.

I just don't believe that clubs in Europe are bitting their nails and losing sleep over him in the way Glaston portray them to. I'd wager Madrid want him quite bad. Yet, it's Falcao who's allegedly top of their wish list. Bayern won't throw that money for him too, as I don't believe he's their priority. I forgot PSG - fair enough.

Barcelona too won't be begging to get him. He's not their type of winger, they're already contemplating whether Sanchez complements them well and Bale's even more of a direct player. We won't pay over £40-45m and I don't think even City/Chelsea are that interested for various reasons. At the moment , anyway.
 
He would be the real deal at United. He'd make the left side of our attack his own.
 
AldoRaine18 said:
He would be, but I don't think he is the best option for that role, is he? Considering the amount Levy will ask for, it is possible to find better players for lesser amount.
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Considering we just signed Zaha, a winger will be the last thing we will go for in the summer.
 
AldoRaine18 said:
He would be, but I don't think he is the best option for that role, is he? Considering the amount Levy will ask for, it is possible to find better players for lesser amount.
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Right now, yes, you're right. It's just that fear factor you don't know how much can he improve and you don't want to see him tearing teams apart at other club(s). That's the only reason someone would be willing to pay over the odds for him.

The only thing that gets on my tits is those comparisons with Carroll's fee. What does it have to do with it? Everyone with a few brain-cells knew he was worth more 35k than £35m. Laughing at his fee was all well but using it as an indicator of how much Bale's worth is equally wrong.
 
Levy will never sell him to us as Spurs pretend to be our rivals. The only way we're ever gettint him is if Spurs sell him to Barcelona or Real, he flops and is sold back to England.
 
Sarni said:
Levy will never sell him to us as Spurs pretend to be our rivals. The only way we're ever gettint him is if Spurs sell him to Barcelona or Real, he flops and is sold back to England.
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I honestly think that is a likely scenario though. He'll probably get sold to Madrid, not be anywhere near the Galactico they hoped for and be sold back to an English club for relatively cheap.

He's a good player and all, very good even, but he's not and I highly doubt ever will be in the very top bracket of players.
 
Sarni said:
Levy will never sell him to us as Spurs pretend to be our rivals. The only way we're ever gettint him is if Spurs sell him to Barcelona or Real, he flops and is sold back to England.
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Where do people come up with this stuff?
 
Sarni said:
Levy will never sell him to us as Spurs pretend to be our rivals. The only way we're ever gettint him is if Spurs sell him to Barcelona or Real, he flops and is sold back to England.
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This. Even if Bale go out and say he wants to join us, Levy will set some ridiculous price that we simply won't be willing to pay.
 
africanspur said:
Where do people come up with this stuff?
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That Spurs won't sell him to us? It's pretty obvious you won't, or will demand a price that will be a stumbling block in any negotiations anyway. Pretty similar to what you did with Modric - you wouldn't sell him to Chelsea but were quite happy to let him go to Real Madrid.

I don't really think he'd flop in Spain but I find it quite conceivable that he'd be a tad underwhelming when surrounded by superior players.
 
Tomuś said:
Right now, yes, you're right. It's just that fear factor you don't know how much can he improve and you don't want to see him tearing teams apart at other club(s). That's the only reason someone would be willing to pay over the odds for him.

The only thing that gets on my tits is those comparisons with Carroll's fee. What does it have to do with it? Everyone with a few brain-cells knew he was worth more 35k than £35m. Laughing at his fee was all well but using it as an indicator of how much Bale's worth is equally wrong.
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What about Lucas Mouras fee?
 
I don't think anybody is saying bale isn't a very good footballer or anything. He's one of the best true wingers (none of that playmakers on the wing like silva) in the world clearly at the moment. However, he is a long way away from the very top players like Ronaldo, Ribery, even nani from 2009-2011. He just isn't technically good enough to improve so drastically because he is 24 currently, not like he's a young player anymore. Maybe he will improve a little bit, but there won't be any ridiculous improvements.

He's obviously in great form now, but go back around 1 month and a half back, and nobody was even mentioning him. Now that he's scored in a few consecutive games he's worth 50million and the hottest prospect in football? feck that. For a winger, he gets a very low number of assists, and no matter what you say about strikers not putting chances away, he has to do better then 2 or 3 a season. That's just really poor for a winger. Also, can't understand some people calling him a prospect? Like I said, he's not a young winger anymore. He is pretty close to his prime, and the way his game is, you can't see him imporving all that much. I could see him getting more consistency and adding assists to his game, but he'll never be at the level of Ronaldo, or Ribery, or what robben was a few years ago. He simply doesn't have enough in his locker to get to that level.

On the comparisons with other youngsters, if people watch gotze, or if he was English and in the premier league, the prices touted for him would be well above 40m, no question about that. His ability on the ball, vision, awareness and football intelligence can't be trained and its something bale could only dream of having.
Neymar is definitely overhyped as well, but to call bale a better prospect is just wrong. Neymar is one of four players to have ever scored 100 goals before the age of 20. The other 3 are maradona, pele, and Ronaldo. Are you seriously going to put bale in his company? He's probably a better player right now because he is four years older and has played in a much better league his whole career, but he doesn't have anywhere near neymars talent on the ball.

Like others have said, he's having a good season and is probably in the form of his life, but look at some other players this season like mata, who has one goal less then him, and plenty more assists. Mata has scored 16 in all comps and asissted 18. We're are the talks of his form, or the prices of 40 million for him? One thing is for sure, I'd much rather spend that on mata then bale.
The only reason bale is valued so highly is because he is British. Very good player, in great form. But a world class player? I don't think so.
 
Fergus' son said:
What about Lucas Mouras fee?
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Brazilian. They are bound to warrant huge fees when coming to Europe. Even younger than Bale as well. As far as I know he went for less than £40m as well. English-based players don't have that big reputation in Europe than they do in England (see transfer fees of players changing English club A for English club B).

Bale isn't viewed as a very top-bracket player outside of England, rightly so or not.
 
Sarni said:
That Spurs won't sell him to us? It's pretty obvious you won't, or will demand a price that will be a stumbling block in any negotiations anyway. Pretty similar to what you did with Modric - you wouldn't sell him to Chelsea but were quite happy to let him go to Real Madrid.

I don't really think he'd flop in Spain but I find it quite conceivable that he'd be a tad underwhelming when surrounded by superior players.
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Yeah, just like Berbatov and Carrick eh?

Comparing yourselves to Chelsea is ridiculous. Firstly, Chelsea and us have been rivals for a long time and some fans on both sides hate the other team more than Arsenal/Fulham or QPR etc. Second, despite the sustained abuse Glaston received for the mere suggestion at the time, turns out Chelsea and us are league rivals at the moment too. Finished above them last season and currently 1 point behind them with 12 games of the season to go. So selling Modric to them would have been a stupid move for that reason alone, putting aside the fact that there is no love lost between us and them.

And it is always better to sell players abroad anyway. Why strengthen another team in the league, even if we're not currently in direct competition or likely to be in the near future when we can sell him abroad and never see him again? Especially if the prices are not too dissimilar?

And a final point. Levy sets the prices he thinks are reasonable for our players. I see no reason why he should bend over backwards to sell our players for a low price whenever a moneybags club comes calling.
 
Tomuś said:
Brazilian. They are bound to warrant huge fees when coming to Europe. Even younger than Bale as well. As far as I know he went for less than £40m as well. English-based players don't have that big reputation in Europe than they do in England (see transfer fees of players changing English club A for English club B).

Bale isn't viewed as a very top-bracket player outside of England, rightly so or not.
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From speaking to people outside the UK and reading some Spanish/Italian media, I don't think this is true at all tbh. Especially as most of these people who have seen Bale don't necessarily see when he is shut out against Norwich in the premier league but will only really watch him in European competition.
 
bosnian_red said:
I don't think anybody is saying bale isn't a very good footballer or anything.
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Correct. Don't get me wrong, I like him as a player mainly because he's somewhat my type of a winger. I just watering down the expectancy of the alleged perception of him in Europe.
 
africanspur said:
Yeah, just like Berbatov and Carrick eh?

Comparing yourselves to Chelsea is ridiculous. Firstly, Chelsea and us have been rivals for a long time and some fans on both sides hate the other team more than Arsenal/Fulham or QPR etc. Second, despite the sustained abuse Glaston received for the mere suggestion at the time, turns out Chelsea and us are league rivals at the moment too. Finished above them last season and currently 1 point behind them with 12 games of the season to go. So selling Modric to them would have been a stupid move for that reason alone, putting aside the fact that there is no love lost between us and them.

And it is always better to sell players abroad anyway. Why strengthen another team in the league, even if we're not currently in direct competition or likely to be in the near future when we can sell him abroad and never see him again? Especially if the prices are not too dissimilar?

And a final point. Levy sets the prices he thinks are reasonable for our players. I see no reason why he should bend over backwards to sell our players for a low price whenever a moneybags club comes calling.
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He shouldn't, I never said he should.

We had to pay a premium price for Berbatov and Carrick to be fair, I doubt we'd do the same for Bale because in his case premium price would probably be well above £40m. I think Glaston is spot on with his theory that you will have two prices - one for English clubs and another for foreign sides, slightly lower.
 
The only way Bale will play for Man Utd in the near futur is that he does his absolute best to play for Man Utd, I'm talking about the entire process (moaning in the press, saying United is his boyhood club, threatening to go on strike or score own goals like Gallas did) and even if after it's a long shot.
Some players aren't meant for United
 
I think most clubs in and around the top of their respective tables probably do to be fair. I imagine that Napoli/Athletico etc would also prefer to sell their players abroad, even if they lose out on a few million and even if they aren't directly competing with the team trying to buy the player.

I also think, on top of the reasons given above, that Levy eventually decided he wouldn't sell to Chelsea as a point of principle, especially as they were clearly working together to try to get his move for the cheapest price possible. 'Can only stay in London now', yep sure Luka.
 
Tomuś said:
Brazilian. They are bound to warrant huge fees when coming to Europe. Even younger than Bale as well. As far as I know he went for less than £40m as well. English-based players don't have that big reputation in Europe than they do in England (see transfer fees of players changing English club A for English club B).

Bale isn't viewed as a very top-bracket player outside of England, rightly so or not.
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Younger equals more expensive now? And why pay for Brazilian hype and not British hype?

Bale is clearly a better player than Moura was when he was signed for 40million so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he went for more than that.
 
bosnian_red said:
I don't think anybody is saying bale isn't a very good footballer or anything. He's one of the best true wingers (none of that playmakers on the wing like silva) in the world clearly at the moment. However, he is a long way away from the very top players like Ronaldo, Ribery, even nani from 2009-2011. He just isn't technically good enough to improve so drastically because he is 24 currently, not like he's a young player anymore. Maybe he will improve a little bit, but there won't be any ridiculous improvements.

He's obviously in great form now, but go back around 1 month and a half back, and nobody was even mentioning him. Now that he's scored in a few consecutive games he's worth 50million and the hottest prospect in football? feck that. For a winger, he gets a very low number of assists, and no matter what you say about strikers not putting chances away, he has to do better then 2 or 3 a season. That's just really poor for a winger. Also, can't understand some people calling him a prospect? Like I said, he's not a young winger anymore. He is pretty close to his prime, and the way his game is, you can't see him imporving all that much. I could see him getting more consistency and adding assists to his game, but he'll never be at the level of Ronaldo, or Ribery, or what robben was a few years ago. He simply doesn't have enough in his locker to get to that level.

On the comparisons with other youngsters, if people watch gotze, or if he was English and in the premier league, the prices touted for him would be well above 40m, no question about that. His ability on the ball, vision, awareness and football intelligence can't be trained and its something bale could only dream of having.
Neymar is definitely overhyped as well, but to call bale a better prospect is just wrong. Neymar is one of four players to have ever scored 100 goals before the age of 20. The other 3 are maradona, pele, and Ronaldo. Are you seriously going to put bale in his company? He's probably a better player right now because he is four years older and has played in a much better league his whole career, but he doesn't have anywhere near neymars talent on the ball.

Like others have said, he's having a good season and is probably in the form of his life, but look at some other players this season like mata, who has one goal less then him, and plenty more assists. Mata has scored 16 in all comps and asissted 18. We're are the talks of his form, or the prices of 40 million for him? One thing is for sure, I'd much rather spend that on mata then bale.
The only reason bale is valued so highly is because he is British. Very good player, in great form. But a world class player? I don't think so.
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Good points. Bale gets the more attention because he scores the more spectacular goals as well.

But you could also argue Spurs are a lot more reliant on Bale. Bale is responsible for scoring Spurs' goals at the moment as their other goalscorers are rubbish, whereas Chelsea have Lampard, Torres (don't laugh), Ba, Hazard and Mata.
 
Fergus' son said:
Younger equals more expensive now? And why pay for Brazilian hype and not British hype?

Bale is clearly a better player than Moura was when he was signed for 40million so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he went for more than that.
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One of the reason Bale will be expensive is his age - room for improvement and number of years he can give you. Not too difficult to calculate surely?

Javier Pastore (ok, not Brazilian) gives you a good clue how much European clubs rate South American talents. For the record, is he that good?

Also, is there one person in this discussion who said Moura's better? I myself rate Bale and stated it here at least a couple of times.
 
Fergus' son said:
Younger equals more expensive now? And why pay for Brazilian hype and not British hype?

Bale is clearly a better player than Moura was when he was signed for 40million so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he went for more than that.
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Brazilian hype has a much higher chance of turning into seeing special. I don't think there's any argument between what country has produced more world class players, brazil or a British country. There's just no competition. He's completely right in saying that British players, out side of England, aren't valued anywhere near the amount they are in England. And there's no reason for them to be valued so highly in all honesty. For them, it's bale is in good form and nothing more. They don't see him as a world class player, one of the most promising players in the world. His performance against Macon certainly helped him a few years back, but even so, they aren't dying to get their hands on him. If there Apis a club in the world that I could see bale excelling at, it is united. Our left wing position is there for the taking, while Madrid, bayern, Chelsea, even psg have that position coved. He just wouldn't fit in at Barca and probably wouldn't be anything more then a squad player. Most of the top clubs around the world play with a different toe of winger now, players like mata or silva, very technical players. Bale wouldn't fit in at most clubs around the world with is why I just don't see him as being that sought after outside of England.
 
bosnian_red said:
Brazilian hype has a much higher chance of turning into seeing special. I don't think there's any argument between what country has produced more world class players, brazil or a British country. There's just no competition. He's completely right in saying that British players, out side of England, aren't valued anywhere near the amount they are in England. And there's no reason for them to be valued so highly in all honesty. For them, it's bale is in good form and nothing more. They don't see him as a world class player, one of the most promising players in the world. His performance against Macon certainly helped him a few years back, but even so, they aren't dying to get their hands on him. If there Apis a club in the world that I could see bale excelling at, it is united. Our left wing position is there for the taking, while Madrid, bayern, Chelsea, even psg have that position coved. He just wouldn't fit in at Barca and probably wouldn't be anything more then a squad player. Most of the top clubs around the world play with a different toe of winger now, players like mata or silva, very technical players. Bale wouldn't fit in at most clubs around the world with is why I just don't see him as being that sought after outside of England.
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Yeah, I understood his point. What I was trying to get across is that if we can so easily justify Lucas Mouras price tag of 40million, then we can also do so with Bale, seeing as he currently the better player more developed etc.
 
Fergus' son said:
Yeah, I understood his point. What I was trying to get across is that if we can so easily justify Lucas Mouras price tag of 40million, then we can also do so with Bale, seeing as he currently the better player more developed etc.
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Moura is highly rated for his performances at PSG so far, it's not like he's gone to shit since going there. As I said many times, we're no talking purely about ability but about perception of it in Europe. The difference in appreciation of British players in England and outside of the shores.

I'd take Bale over Moura but it isn't the essence of the discussion.
 
Tomuś said:
Moura is highly rated for his performances at PSG so far, it's not like he's gone to shit since going there. As I said many times, we're no talking purely about ability but about perception of it in Europe. The difference in appreciation of British players in England and outside of the shores.

I'd take Bale over Moura but it isn't the essence of the discussion.
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There may be a slight element of truth to what you say but you are overstating it. Europeans, clubs and managers, can identify talent just as well as anyone else. If you can see that that Bale is better than the 40million Lucas Moura then so can they, and would probably pay the money to reflect that.

I never said Moura has went to shit, what gave you that impression?
 
Fergus' son said:
Yeah, I understood his point. What I was trying to get across is that if we can so easily justify Lucas Mouras price tag of 40million, then we can also do so with Bale, seeing as he currently the better player more developed etc.
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Yeah, Bale is easily a better player and I think they'll end up being very similar players, but I think that Moura was ridiculously overpriced in the first place. The thing is though, if you have two exact same talents, one from Brazil and one from England, English media will hype the english talent beyond imagination but the Brazilian one would by rated much higher everywhere else around the world. Whether that is right or wrong, is your opinion but that's just the way it is. Brazil have a much better CV of producing genuine world class players than England, so that is probably the main reason why players like Moura are worth so much. If British countries start producing players like Bale or Wilshere at a higher rate, and England actually does something good in the World cup or Euro's, then you'll start hearing about teams around the world wanting to buy English talent. Until then though, German, Brazilian, Argentinian, Spanish talent will always be more sought after.
 
Mainoldo said:
Who are these people you talk off??? The same people that are all o er this Bales hype are probably the same people that are on the Gotze, Reus and Neymar hype in their own contructive thread.
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Who are these people that buy into the hype of their league? Glaston, obviously.
 
Tomuś said:
One of the reason Bale will be expensive is his age - room for improvement and number of years he can give you. Not too difficult to calculate surely?

Javier Pastore (ok, not Brazilian) gives you a good clue how much European clubs rate South American talents. For the record, is he that good?

Also, is there one person in this discussion who said Moura's better? I myself rate Bale and stated it here at least a couple of times.
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No need to be arsey about it.

Younger hasn't always equalled more expensive and your rationale doesn't aways apply, IMO particularly in this case.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah, Bale is easily a better player and I think they'll end up being very similar players, but I think that Moura was ridiculously overpriced in the first place. The thing is though, if you have two exact same talents, one from Brazil and one from England, English media will hype the english talent beyond imagination but the Brazilian one would by rated much higher everywhere else around the world. Whether that is right or wrong, is your opinion but that's just the way it is. Brazil have a much better CV of producing genuine world class players than England, so that is probably the main reason why players like Moura are worth so much. If British countries start producing players like Bale or Wilshere at a higher rate, and England actually does something good in the World cup or Euro's, then you'll start hearing about teams around the world wanting to buy English talent. Until then though, German, Brazilian, Argentinian, Spanish talent will always be more sought after.
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I do understand, but I think you are underestimating clubs around Europe and their scouting policy. They didn't pay so much for Mura just because he is Brazilian, they did so because they watched him play and recognised his talent. If and when they do the same with Bale, they will see he has the same if not more talent than Moura so will command a similar price tag, Welsh or Brazilian doesn't matter, it's the talent and ability they have seen with thier own eyes which makes thier minds up.
 
Fergus' son said:
No need to be arsey about it.

Younger hasn't always equalled more expensive and your rationale doesn't aways apply, IMO particularly in this case.
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I wasn't intending to, mate. Maybe poor choice of words. I also didn't say you think Moura's gone to shit, just used a hyperbole. Bosnian_red nailed it as for the Europeans and Bale. His post is everything I wanted to get across but it's apparent I didn't.

I appreciate English talent because I pay far more attention to PL than I do to any other league. Ask any european, non-PL bent fan about Bale and they won't tell you he's as good as he's seen in England. A great number of them would have preferred Moura as well, I'd wager.

Just the way it is, I'm not saying it's right. I live in such environment so I clearly got something to say about it.
 
Tomuś said:
I wasn't intending to, mate. Maybe poor choice of words. I also didn't say you think Moura's gone to shit, just used a hyperbole. Bosnian_red nailed it as for the Europeans and Bale. His post is everything I wanted to get across but it's apparent I didn't.

I appreciate English talent because I pay far more attention to PL than I do to any other league. Ask any european, non-PL bent fan about Bale and they won't tell you he's as good as he's seen in England. A great number of them would have preferred Moura as well, I'd wager.

Just the way it is, I'm not saying it's right. I live in such environment so I clearly got something to say about it.
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Fair enough.

Like I said, I think most European clubs will probably be able to identify that Bale is just as talented as Moura, so would pay a similar price for him. I'm not convinced by the whole 'they pay more for Brazilians' response to that, they pay for the talent and ability on display more often than not IMO.
 
Fergus' son said:
Fair enough.

Like I said, I think most European clubs will probably be able to identify that Bale is just as talented as Moura, so would pay a similar price for him. I'm not convinced by the whole 'they pay more for Brazilians' response to that, they pay for the talent and ability on display more often than not IMO.
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That could be true, seeing that SA seems to produce great talents every year it's no wonder it's them being pursued. It may change when young British players like Bale/Welbeck etc become less few and far between.
 
Mainoldo said:
Stop being silly!! Bale is better than those names you just mentioned. Stop being a FM muppet.
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FM Muppet? Have you ever seen Gotze play? He's a properly special player.
 
#Carl said:
FM Muppet? Have you ever seen Gotze play? He's a properly special player.
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Yeah I have he's really good. I expect big things from him if he can continue his development. I wouldn't pick him over Bale at the minute though.. that was kind of my point.
 
I don't understand why people keep using Spurs being reliant on him as an argument when discussing his quality. Blackpool was reliant on Charlie Adam to do anything for a season, doesn't mean anything. I'm not comparing Adam and Bale but you get the point that it is more to do with the quality, or the lack of it, of the Spurs squad than anything.
 
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