Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request

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Negativity and modest praise can feck off tonight... Great game from our Tony V. He looked way more confident on the ball and he was looking far more adventurous then he has for ages.
 
Again a better performance than the West Ham game. He is improving and that is good. Hopefully he can kick on and finish the season strong.
 
I thought he played well today, his second half was obviously better then his first of course. I still don't think he's to the level he was last season but this performance certainly seemed to be a step in the right direction.

I half think Valencia's issue at the moment is a mental one. I had a discussion about it with my Grandad and he mentioned that, after he broke his leg going into a challenge back when he played football, when he came back he always played slightly reserved, with that little doubt in his mind that his next challenge might result in him hurting himself again. We both kind of thought this might be what Valencia is going through at the minute. Still, as i said before he looked much better tonight and i do think he has been steadily improving over his last few games so i'm hopeful we'll see him back to his best yet.
 
Improving, didn't play as safe as he did against West Ham either. He'll have some space against Arsenal to work with, hope he isn't afraid to use it.
 
Looks to be on his way back. Nowhere near his best yet, but you can't just flick a switch and go from poor form to top form in an instant. It takes time and patience to rebuild a player's confidence. He'll be alright.
 
It just goes to show, the lad has lacked confidence. The goal last game and the occasion tonight has brought out the best of him.

Great game tonight and lets hope he takes it into next season now.
 
Was telling that Valencia put in by far his best performance of the season when it became clear we'd wrapped the title up after the first half. I'm guessing we'll see a pretty significant improvement in a few players now and really see who had been feeling the pressure previously.
 
pocco said:
If confidence has been his issue then that is a problem in itself, especially when it's lasted this long.
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Nah, he'd been great for us long enough before this slump to show that it's not going to be a permanent issue. After all, coming back after a long injury lay-off is one of the most nerve-wracking things to face in sport, and several times he's done that effortlessly. He just got himself in a rut for whatever reason this season.

Nice break now, confidence renewed, and hopefully we'll have the old Tony V back next season.
 
Last few games he'd been edging closer and closer to the Valencia we all know and love. Better late than never! Shows why SAF persisted with him.
 
He has had a full season to find his skills and hasn't, regardless of constantly getting games and confidence from Fergie. It is hard to be positive when his steps forward has been so small.

I wouldn't praise Nani/Evans/Rooney if he after 35 games still wasn't near regular form. I think we are reaching for straws because we want him to be his old self rather than because we actually believe he is.

I would like to praise Fergie however for his ability to win the league like we did while still offering a free spot in our starting line-up for Valencia to find form, I doubt any manager would treat a player with so much confidence and belief. That is some amazing man managing.
 
We can't praise his good match even if he's been relatively average all season ? That's stupid IMHO, no one saying is revisiting his season, we're just appreciating his good match.
I don't understand how it can be so hard to praise one of your players
 
kouroux said:
We can't praise his good match even if he's been relatively average all season ? That's stupid IMHO, no one saying is revisiting his season, we're just appreciating his good match.
I don't understand how it can be so hard to praise one of your players
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We have different opinions of "average" and "good" then so carry on. In my mind he has been well below "relatively average" all season and his game yesterday was average. What was he, our 5th~ best player? That was his "high" of the season.

Even Buttner got man of the match once didn't he? So getting this extreme praise for that game is certainly related to his season and not just that performance being "good".

If he had that match at the end of last season everybody would say he had a poor game.
 
It's not extreme praise man, we just said he had a good match in a bad season.People are happy with the celebrations.If he had that match at the end of last season it would have been called a good match in a season where he had produced much better.I judge him without taking into account his season performances.I enjoyed his good match, that's all.
 
This thread goes from one extreme to the other, he was better than Kagawa last night in terms of contribution (no need to knock him last night)... but does that mean he's the winger we need if we're going to challenge for trophies such as the CL or that the real Tony V is back? no, it was a good performance against Aston Villa with the pressure mainly off, - nothing to write home about. If he stays as a backup winger, I'd have no qualms about that but if he is our 1st choice winger once again next year.. I don't see us challenging for the European Cup especially when you consider the big teams are all going to strengthen this summer pre World Cup.

Bayern have Robben, Ribery and now will acquire Gotze, personally don't think signing of Zaha is enough, we need another top notch winger - preferably a left footed one if we can find one.
 
Raees said:
This thread goes from one extreme to the other, he was better than Kagawa last night in terms of contribution (no need to knock him last night)... but does that mean he's the winger we need if we're going to challenge for trophies such as the CL or that the real Tony V is back? no, it was a good performance against Aston Villa with the pressure mainly off, - nothing to write home about. If he stays as a backup winger, I'd have no qualms about that but if he is our 1st choice winger once again next year.. I don't see us challenging for the European Cup especially when you consider the big teams are all going to strengthen this summer pre World Cup.

Bayern have Robben, Ribery and now will acquire Gotze, personally don't think signing of Zaha is enough, we need another top notch winger - preferably a left footed one if we can find one.
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Valencia is just as good as Robben on top form. People forget just how good he was last season.
 
kouroux said:
We can't praise his good match even if he's been relatively average all season ? That's stupid IMHO, no one saying is revisiting his season, we're just appreciating his good match.
I don't understand how it can be so hard to praise one of your players
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Aye, it's fecking daft. Just people being stubborn after writing him off.

It was a very good performance. Much more like the Valencia of old. Apart from his individual contribution he has a knack for getting the best out of Rafael as an attacking force. His short passing in and around the box was exceptional last night.
 
Raees said:
This thread goes from one extreme to the other, he was better than Kagawa last night in terms of contribution (no need to knock him last night)... but does that mean he's the winger we need if we're going to challenge for trophies such as the CL or that the real Tony V is back? no, it was a good performance against Aston Villa with the pressure mainly off, - nothing to write home about. If he stays as a backup winger, I'd have no qualms about that but if he is our 1st choice winger once again next year.. I don't see us challenging for the European Cup especially when you consider the big teams are all going to strengthen this summer pre World Cup.

Bayern have Robben, Ribery and now will acquire Gotze, personally don't think signing of Zaha is enough, we need another top notch winger - preferably a left footed one if we can find one.
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This is pretty much my take on it. One has to take into account that Buttner has been man of the match this season and "higher rated" than Valencia. Valencia gets praise as long as he is in the top 5 in a game, which is not a rating worth praising. Even Scholes had some games at the start of this season when he was rated top 3, it does not mean he is on his way back or someone we should start every match with.

People like Valencia(me included) to hit form again because it would change our team completely. But somewhere we need to take a step back and actually look at what his performance was like and ask if he deserves praise for it.

I doubt any other player would be praised for a match of that standard bar Scholes. Even Giggs would not be praised if he had a game with the quality of Valencias game last night.

I think Valencia is on some kind of record with 35 games and no "top 3" game. Even Alan Smith had a higher frequency of "top 3" than so, hell even Michael Owen probably got a top 3 more often than that.
 
KingEric7 said:
Was telling that Valencia put in by far his best performance of the season when it became clear we'd wrapped the title up after the first half. I'm guessing we'll see a pretty significant improvement in a few players now and really see who had been feeling the pressure previously.
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His form has been gradually picking up over the last few games. A long slump like that doesn't instantaneously change half-way through a match.
 
Annahnomoss said:
This is pretty much my take on it. One has to take into account that Buttner has been man of the match this season and "higher rated" than Valencia. Valencia gets praise as long as he is in the top 5 in a game, which is not a rating worth praising. Even Scholes had some games at the start of this season when he was rated top 3, it does not mean he is on his way back or someone we should start every match with.

People like Valencia(me included) to hit form again because it would change our team completely. But somewhere we need to take a step back and actually look at what his performance was like and ask if he deserves praise for it.

I doubt any other player would be praised for a match of that standard bar Scholes. Even Giggs would not be praised if he had a game with the quality of Valencias game last night.

I think Valencia is on some kind of record with 35 games and no "top 3" game. Even Alan Smith had a higher frequency of "top 3" than so, hell even Michael Owen probably got a top 3 more often than that.
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Amazing amount of nonsense in that post. You've tied yourself in knots to try and find a way to avoid acknowledging a good performance from a player at the club you support. Bizarre.
 
paceme said:
Valencia is just as good as Robben on top form. People forget just how good he was last season.
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That is not true, one's played in CL finals and World Cup finals and been instrumental in taking his side there... he's been in the 'top 2/3' players in his side wherever he's been and only now in this season has Bayern transcended him to the point where he's now a backup player... but on top form, this is not even a contest.

Robben can tear top teams apart and go for goal himself as well as create for others, he can operate off either wing. He can shoot from long range, finish, take set pieces and is a better crosser of the ball, though that isn't his game as he plays as an inverted winger for the most part.

Robben's goalscoring statistics (Club & Country)...

2012/13: 11 Goals/11 assists (28 Starts (9 Sub)
2011/2012: 18 goals/6 Assists (29 Starts (7 Subs)
2010/2011: 17 goals/10 assists (21 Starts (4 subs))
2009/10: 24 goals/9 Assists (35 Starts/8 Subs)

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/11137/arjen-robben?cc=5739

Valencia Goalscoring Statistics..

2012/13 : 2 goals/6 Assists (35 Starts/10 Subs)
2011/12: 6 goals/16 Assists (38 Starts/6 Subs)
2010/11: 3 goals/ 3 assists (15 Starts/5 Subs)
2009/10: 9 Goals/12 Assists (40 Starts/12 Subs)
 
I still don't think his performance last night constitutes it being called a "great" one. Maybe people are so used to him being poor this season that it just seemed that way. Giggs, Kagawa, RvP, and Rooney were all better than him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
They're completely different players. In fact, almost polar opposites. Robben the selfish individualist and Valencia the epitomy of a team player. Silly comparison.
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It's he who said Valencia was a better player, I was just pointing out that it was an unfair comparison, as Robben is a regular matchwinner at the highest level, Valencia is not.

Valencia's interplay with Rafael is the best thing about him, but that alone shouldn't merit him being our 1st choice winger for seasons to come.. a winger shouldn't be in the side just because he brings out the best in our full back? we need to have a wideman who can link up well with Rafael but win the game on his own or create chances out of nothing for our frontmen.
 
Raees said:
That is not true, one's played in CL finals and World Cup finals and been instrumental in taking his side there... he's been in the 'top 2/3' players in his side wherever he's been and only now in this season has Bayern transcended him to the point where he's now a backup player... but on top form, this is not even a contest.

Robben can tear top teams apart and go for goal himself as well as create for others, he can operate off either wing. He can shoot from long range, finish, take set pieces and is a better crosser of the ball, though that isn't his game as he plays as an inverted winger for the most part.

Robben's goalscoring statistics...

2012/13 (poor season where he's been on periphery): 8 goals/24 Apps
2011/2012: 19 goals/36 Apps
2010/2011: 13 goals/17 Apps
2009/10: 23 goals/37 Apps

Valencia Goalscoring Statistics..

2012/13 : 1 goal/35 Apps (4 assists)
2011/12: 6 goals/38 Apps
2010/11: 3 goals/20 Apps
2009/10: 7 Goals/49 Apps

That is shocking statistics for someone who is the number 7 and playing in a United shirt, especially when you take into account he's no Beckham when it comes to crossing.
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Comparing goals is a daft way to do it. Robben plays much higher up the field compared to Valencia who really is a wide midfielder. What are the assist stats.
 
Cina said:
I still don't think his performance last night constitutes it being called a "great" one. Maybe people are so used to him being poor this season that it just seemed that way. Giggs, Kagawa, RvP, and Rooney were all better than him.
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Debatable for everyone bar Van Persie. Pointless nit-picking anyway. How well others played has no bearing on his individual performance. Which was very good.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
They're completely different players. In fact, almost polar opposites. Robben the selfish individualist and Valencia the epitomy of a team player. Silly comparison.
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This plus Robben really isnt soemone to compare to this last year. He's been in awful form for most of the season
 
Raees said:
It's he who said Valencia was a better player, I was just pointing out that it was an unfair comparison, as Robben is a regular matchwinner at the highest level, Valencia is not.

Valencia's interplay with Rafael is the best thing about him, but that alone shouldn't merit him being our 1st choice winger for seasons to come.. a winger shouldn't be in the side just because he brings out the best in our full back? we need to have a wideman who can link up well with Rafael but win the game on his own or create chances out of nothing for our frontmen.
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Is there anything more fecking annoying than people putting words in your mouth. I didn't say he was better than Robben did I mate?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Debatable for everyone bar Van Persie. Pointless nit-picking anyway. How well others played has no bearing on his individual performance.
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it doesn't, it more so to point out that they are what I'd call very good games and RvP's is what I would call a great game. Valencia was just good, in fact he was really average in the first half apart from his early cross for RvP's volley and by the time the second half came around the game was already completely wrapped up. So overboard.
 
Cina said:
it doesn't, it more so to point out that they are what I'd call very good games and RvP's is what I would call a great game. Valencia was just good, in fact he was really average in the first half apart from his early cross for RvP's volley and by the time the second half came around the game was already completely wrapped up. So overboard.
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Nah, he was good in the first half too. Dunno why people are so keen to deny the evidence of their own eyes. Nowt so blind...
 
Yes Pogue, I'm denying evidence and you're the one who's right here as usual. Clearly I want him to fail, even though I said (whilst others were dissing him) that he had a good game against West Ham.

if stalling on the ball for 2 minutes before doing a 270 degree swivel and passing the ball backwards repeatedly constitutes as a good first half then I'm rating performances wrong.
 
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