Nothing new there.
I'm happy to hear him say that he played well in the second half of the season. It's shows a type of confidence that not many Japanese people have. This realization will hopefully give him a necessary boost for the next season.
Shinji Kagawa
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Nothing new there.
I'm happy to hear him say that he played well in the second half of the season. It's shows a type of confidence that not many Japanese people have. This realization will hopefully give him a necessary boost for the next season.
Not being harsh on the guy, but he should feel disappointed. He's had a good season at best; not stellar, not awful, but good. A lot of us have seen what he can do (Dortmund) and we have had glimpses of magic from him playing for us, but that's what they've been: glimpses. I was really excited about him coming, I knew what he brought and I've been begging for United to get a CAM player for years, and we finally did. He should hopefully be settled next season in his natural role, playing regularly there at a high standard, and we can see his Dortmund form come into play.
Think he will improve for you lot next season, as this was his worst in terms of scoring in his entire career wasn't it? Even in seasons were he made far less appearances. Rooney leaving should free him up more, and adapting to the EPL always takes one or two seasons.
Don't think he should be too hard on himself but yeah, he will be better next year for sure.
I would love for Moyes to make it a priority for Kagawa to be utilised in his natural position.
You are being harsh on the guy. Competing with Rooney for a position is not easy especially considering his injury.
I get where you are coming from but it is more about an unfortunate situation rather than his own performance being bad. I would rate his individual performance this season excellent, although the results he has achieved has been very average.(Due to injuries and competing with Rooney for his position.)
Just look at everybody here saying they are not scared of Rooney leaving because we have Kagawa. He got through his injury very well and he showed us he can replace Rooney if he goes or when he is injured/moves position.
6 goals and 5 assists and a pass completion percentage of 90% says he was pretty good. (and the stats doesnt even says it all...)
All of this playing just 20 games, out of position, with a injury between and in his first season.
Next year he will be our best player
All of this playing just 20 games, out of position, with a injury between and in his first season.
Next year he will be our best player
i worry that if not used correctly next season we risk losing a fantastic talent. the stats above are very impressive and thats in a very disrupted season largely out of position. he could easily be getting us 15 goals a season and as many assists. i wonder what he thinks watching dortmund in the final now? obviously nowhere better to be than united but i cant imagine he'll want another season like the last.
He should play behind RVP or at the point of a diamond in midfield. Evra and Rafael can provide enough going forward to make up for wingers, especially as crap as ours were this season.
We had no problem going forward on Sunday with Kagawa in his proper position and no wingers.
We had no problem going forward on Sunday with Kagawa in his proper position and no wingers.
We should play Valencia at right back more often, he is quite useful there.
Kagawa hasn't had that good a season as he has been underutilized and played out of position more often than not. If we try to get the best out of him is his best position then we will have a real gem.
Never thought Valencia was that good at right back to be honest, I feel it's a bit of a lazy conclusion (not aimed at you but the general public) to think 'he's a tank, he's fast, he'll be good at right back'. He's not a liability, but his defending isn't that good, both in one on ones and in a positional sense. He's okay-ish against mediocre teams that don't use the wings as a weapon though I suppose, but we have much better options within our ranks.
Can we stop with this flipping "diamond" formation??? Fergie was happy with a 4-2-3-1, a much belated change from the wretched 4-4-2.
The only problem was not accommodating Kagawa in the middle of the three...perhaps forthcoming events will correct that, unless Moyes comes in and changes it again.
Go retro: 3-3-4
This. We've been playing 4231 for a while now, and it looks like Kagawa has settled in enough to be trusted with the number 10 job. That formation suits our players perfectly now, we don't need to be looking for another one.
Not to mention he's not a patch on Rafael, both attacking and defending wise. It's funny how people instantly forget we have probably the most promising right back in the world, and the best right back in the league starting for us, but yet people try to shoe-horn Valencia in the side and put him instead of Rafael.
Yes of course that goes without saying. I thought the post meant Valencia as a back-up for certain games if Rafael isn't fit or is injured or whatever, but yes Rafael is absolutely first choice miles ahead anyone else. What I meant was that even as back-up we have better options than Valencia in my opinion.
Instead of Rafael? When did I imply that
... Of course Rafael is first choice right back.
We do have better defensive options at RB in Jones and Smalling, agreed. But if we play a narrow midfield like we did against West Brom (and in the instance Rafael is unavailable) he is a very good option at RB. And this is coming from someone who doesn't rate him as much as others on here.
With the pitch congested in the middle, it gives him plenty of space to run into on the right which is his best asset. Anyway don't want to derail the Kagawa thread, I just brought it up because it was the first time this season I thought, wow Valencia that guy is not bad eh.
Instead of Rafael? When did I imply that
... Of course Rafael is first choice right back.
We do have better defensive options at RB in Jones and Smalling, agreed. But if we play a narrow midfield like we did against West Brom (and in the instance Rafael is unavailable) he is a very good option at RB. And this is coming from someone who doesn't rate him as much as others on here.
With the pitch congested in the middle, it gives him plenty of space to run into on the right which is his best asset. Anyway don't want to derail the Kagawa thread, I just brought it up because it was the first time this season I thought, wow Valencia that guy is not bad eh.
When Rafael is unavailable then sure give Valencia a chance there. But you said we should play Valencia at right back more often because he looks useful there when we really shouldn't, as Rafael is first choice and will only miss the odd game here and there through injury/suspension. Not too long ago there were people calling for Valencia to be first choice right back and Nani right win. Anyways completely wrong thread for this.
Shinji's up for a hectic summer! Japan will play 6 games in 24 days, in 3 different countries(Japan, Iraq, Brazil). And if they advance from their tough group, there will be even more games lined up for them.
May 30: vs Bulgaria(friendly) 12:20 GMT+1
June 4: vs Australia(WC qualifier) 12:30 GMT+1
June 11: vs Iraq(WC qualifier) 16:30 GMT+1
June 15: vs Brazil(Confederations Cup) 20:00 GMT+1
June 19: vs Italy(Confederations Cup) 23:00 GMT+1
June 22: vs Mexico(Confederations Cup) 20:00 GMT+1
This is a nice chance for people to not only see Shinji, but also other Japanese top players. Japan has good stats against top teams, so I'm expecting close games.
May 30: vs Bulgaria(friendly) 12:20 GMT+1
June 4: vs Australia(WC qualifier) 12:30 GMT+1
June 11: vs Iraq(WC qualifier) 16:30 GMT+1
June 15: vs Brazil(Confederations Cup) 20:00 GMT+1
June 19: vs Italy(Confederations Cup) 23:00 GMT+1
June 22: vs Mexico(Confederations Cup) 20:00 GMT+1
This is a nice chance for people to not only see Shinji, but also other Japanese top players. Japan has good stats against top teams, so I'm expecting close games.
By chance, do you have the European (either GMT or Paris/Brussels/Rome) times for those games? Confed Cup will be on TV over here I think, but I wonder whether I'll manage to catch the others, I'd like to see him!
Continent wise list of broadcasters for the confederations cup:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/tv/01/96/02/51/fifaconfederationscupbrazil2013.pdf
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/tv/01/96/02/51/fifaconfederationscupbrazil2013.pdf
I've edited my post now
Thank you both very much. Gonna be hard to watch, because of the timing, though two of the Confed cup games are at the weekend so I should be able to watch them live, the other I'll record and watch after work. The three other games though, I'll have to check whether Bein Sport (the Al Jazeera sport channel in France) is planning on broadcasting them, in which case I should also be able to record them... Hope so, I hate this time after the end of the season when there's no more football!
I made a few mistakes concerning the times. New times(in GMT+1)is edited into my original post now.
Never trust goal.com
Never trust goal.com
Cheers mate, makes it a bit easier for a couple of those games!
These were my PL expectations of Kagawa before the 12/13 season.
Expectations
1. Start at least half the PL games(19).
2. Score/assist somewhere between 10 and 15 times.
3. Play at least 50% of the time behind the striker.
4. Stand out as one of our most entertaining and technical players.
5. Become integrated to such an extent that he's almost sure to be a first XI regular when the 13/14 season starts.
Did he live up to my expectations?
1. No, he only started 17 games.
2. Yes, he got 6 goals and 4 assists, barely pushing him over the minimum demand of 10 goals/assists.
3. No, he only played around 1/3 of the time behind the striker.
4. Yes, most definitely. In my opinion, only RVP can challenge Kagawa in this aspect.
5. Yes, I think he's considered a first XI regular by now. He's not as "safe" as Carrick, RVP or DDG, but he's still a player who's expected to start most games.
Summary
Kagawa didn't live up to all my expectations, but his injury is largely to blame for that. Had he not been injured, then I'm sure that he would have started more than half the PL games. The injury also slowed down his process of adjusting to the league, making his way back into the team unnecessarily hard. At least 30% of the season got ruined because of this injury, because Fergie had to ease Kagawa into the squad again. At this point, he also had to play on the wing, seeing as Rooney was back and well-established behind the striker.
In short: the injury "ruined" Kagawa's season. If we take the injury and him playing out of position into account, Kagawa actually did better than expected. He did have a pretty good goals/assist ratio. He did succeed at playing sexy football. He did establish himself as our best passer of the ball(now that Scholes has retired). He also had the best stamina scores since David Beckham. These are all remarkable first-season achievements for a young player who has struggled with injuries and has been played out of position. Anyone who says otherwise have overly high expectations.
I'm looking forward to next season
Expectations
1. Start at least half the PL games(19).
2. Score/assist somewhere between 10 and 15 times.
3. Play at least 50% of the time behind the striker.
4. Stand out as one of our most entertaining and technical players.
5. Become integrated to such an extent that he's almost sure to be a first XI regular when the 13/14 season starts.
Did he live up to my expectations?
1. No, he only started 17 games.
2. Yes, he got 6 goals and 4 assists, barely pushing him over the minimum demand of 10 goals/assists.
3. No, he only played around 1/3 of the time behind the striker.
4. Yes, most definitely. In my opinion, only RVP can challenge Kagawa in this aspect.
5. Yes, I think he's considered a first XI regular by now. He's not as "safe" as Carrick, RVP or DDG, but he's still a player who's expected to start most games.
Summary
Kagawa didn't live up to all my expectations, but his injury is largely to blame for that. Had he not been injured, then I'm sure that he would have started more than half the PL games. The injury also slowed down his process of adjusting to the league, making his way back into the team unnecessarily hard. At least 30% of the season got ruined because of this injury, because Fergie had to ease Kagawa into the squad again. At this point, he also had to play on the wing, seeing as Rooney was back and well-established behind the striker.
In short: the injury "ruined" Kagawa's season. If we take the injury and him playing out of position into account, Kagawa actually did better than expected. He did have a pretty good goals/assist ratio. He did succeed at playing sexy football. He did establish himself as our best passer of the ball(now that Scholes has retired). He also had the best stamina scores since David Beckham. These are all remarkable first-season achievements for a young player who has struggled with injuries and has been played out of position. Anyone who says otherwise have overly high expectations.
I'm looking forward to next season
He still has a lot to prove. I think people are getting a bit carried with Kagawa. He could become an exciting, productive and go-to player for us but as of yet he's not. I hope he really shines next season but there's no guarantee he will instantly be the player that many on here assume he will be.
If he is to play regularly behind the striker than he will be expected to score or assist frequently in the biggest games. As of yet he hasn't done that for us. I'd love it if he could become as productive as a player like Mata, but I'm not expecting that from him just yet.
Stylistically he's great and he's the kind of player most of us want to see at United. I do think he'll continue to play from the left at least semi-regularly, which is fine by me. He can play well there.
If he is to play regularly behind the striker than he will be expected to score or assist frequently in the biggest games. As of yet he hasn't done that for us. I'd love it if he could become as productive as a player like Mata, but I'm not expecting that from him just yet.
Stylistically he's great and he's the kind of player most of us want to see at United. I do think he'll continue to play from the left at least semi-regularly, which is fine by me. He can play well there.
When people join us, I usually just hope they do well. Your expectations were way more comprehensive than that!
Kagawa himself expressed his disappointment with his personal performance/contribution this season and I think that is understandable. The injury played a big part but I think getting used to the PL and his team mates was probably a bigger factor than expected and he struggled to influence games the way we know he can.
Carrick has to be our current best passer in the absence of Scholesy. Overall I agree with SAF, Kagawa will be much better next season and it'll be nice to see him reach his upper levels performance wise and really impose himself on games.
Kagawa himself expressed his disappointment with his personal performance/contribution this season and I think that is understandable. The injury played a big part but I think getting used to the PL and his team mates was probably a bigger factor than expected and he struggled to influence games the way we know he can.
Carrick has to be our current best passer in the absence of Scholesy. Overall I agree with SAF, Kagawa will be much better next season and it'll be nice to see him reach his upper levels performance wise and really impose himself on games.
It's not easy to prove yourself when you're struggling with injuries and are being played out of position, though. People expect him to be on the same level as he was in Dortmund, but they forget that in Dortmund his overall goal/assist ratio wasn't that much better. Unless you only focus on his very best period, which again is unfair, seeing as he at that point had almost 2 years of experience with the team, playing all the time in his favorite position. Obviously he's gonna make more of an impact there.
As for productivity, there are only 3 more productive players in our squad this season. Hernandez, a goal poacher who is famous for his productivity. RVP, one of the best strikers in the world. And Rooney, who not only takes penalties and freekicks, but also plays much more, most of the time behind the striker. He also has 9 years of United experience now. Obviously he has the upper hand.
My questions to you would be this: did you expect Kagawa to be more productive than RVP, Hernandez and Rooney? Did you expect him to kick ass, despite playing for a new team in new league, out of his favorite position, and struggling with injuries? Face it: he has done very well given the circumstances. It would be insane if he became one of our very best players in just one season. That's just not gonna happen.
Calm your pants dear, it wasn't a criticism of your beloved Shinji so far, it's a simple fact that he still has a lot more to show.
I've bolded the parts where the player is superior. Italics where they are equal.
Carrick:
Passing accuracy: 88.1%
Successful through balls per game: 0.1
Key passes per game: 1
Successful crosses per game: 0.2
Successful long balls per game: 5.8
Assists: 4 assists in 3044 minutes
Kagawa:
Passing accuracy: 89.7%
Successful through balls per game: 0.3
Key passes per game: 1
Successful crosses per game: 0.3
Successful long balls per game: 1.5
Assists: 4 assists in 1314 minutes
Carrick only beats Kagawa with long balls, but that is only to be expected, given his position on the field. It's also worth to keep in mind that Kagawa is in a more advanced position, which makes it harder for him to pick out the right pass and gives him less time to think. Carrick is awesome, but a lot of his strength comes from his intelligence, positioning, and defensive efforts. When it comes to passing in general, Kagawa slightly edges it. I know that stats aren't everything, but they're not completely useless either.
Either way, passing is not even considered one of Kagawa's biggest strengths.
This post is quite defensive, I agree with Rowem, we've seen glimpses of what Kagawa can do but I don't think he's shown enough this season, for various reasons (Kagawa himself seems to agree). Most of us are optimistic though.
My expectations of him were extremely high cause I know what he can do with the ball. He didn't quite reach it not due to him playing badly but due to playing relatively little and often not in a position he excels at.
He's a real gem and he'll show it next season, sure of that.
He's a real gem and he'll show it next season, sure of that.
feck me for just saying it as it is, right?
I have no problem with being labled a fanboy, but people should at least be decent enough to not run away from stats that are proving that Kagawa has been productive given his circumstances. Kagawa is our 4th most productive player in terms of goals and assists, our best passer in terms of stats, and our fittest player in terms of the beep test. These are unescapable facts.
Fanboy or not: those are pretty decent stats for a flashy "luxury" player in unknown territory.
Play Kagawa in his proper position next season and he'll do very well. It will be exciting to see him, now that he has gotten his first season under his belt.
Come on Mad Winger, I am all for stats but you're telling me that because Kagawa has 1.6% better passing accuracy (in far fewer passes), 0.2% more successful through balls and 0.1% more successful crosses per game Kagawa is a better passer than Carrick?
You realise how ridiculous that sounds right? There is barely any difference in those stats. 0.1 and 0.2% is negligible. Carrick's passing is second to none in our team for me. And that's no criticism of Kagawa but he does not slightly edge it at all.
These were my PL expectations of Kagawa before the 12/13 season.
Expectations
1. Start at least half the PL games(19).
2. Score/assist somewhere between 10 and 15 times.
3. Play at least 50% of the time behind the striker.
4. Stand out as one of our most entertaining and technical players.
5. Become integrated to such an extent that he's almost sure to be a first XI regular when the 13/14 season starts.
Did he live up to my expectations?
1. No, he only started 17 games.
2. Yes, he got 6 goals and 4 assists, barely pushing him over the minimum demand of 10 goals/assists.
3. No, he only played around 1/3 of the time behind the striker.
4. Yes, most definitely. In my opinion, only RVP can challenge Kagawa in this aspect.
5. Yes, I think he's considered a first XI regular by now. He's not as "safe" as Carrick, RVP or DDG, but he's still a player who's expected to start most games.
Summary
Kagawa didn't live up to all my expectations, but his injury is largely to blame for that. Had he not been injured, then I'm sure that he would have started more than half the PL games. The injury also slowed down his process of adjusting to the league, making his way back into the team unnecessarily hard. At least 30% of the season got ruined because of this injury, because Fergie had to ease Kagawa into the squad again. At this point, he also had to play on the wing, seeing as Rooney was back and well-established behind the striker.
In short: the injury "ruined" Kagawa's season. If we take the injury and him playing out of position into account, Kagawa actually did better than expected. He did have a pretty good goals/assist ratio. He did succeed at playing sexy football. He did establish himself as our best passer of the ball(now that Scholes has retired). He also had the best stamina scores since David Beckham. These are all remarkable first-season achievements for a young player who has struggled with injuries and has been played out of position. Anyone who says otherwise have overly high expectations.
I'm looking forward to next season
This post is incredible.
feck me for just saying it as it is, right?
I have no problem with being labled a fanboy, but people should at least be decent enough to not run away from stats that are proving that Kagawa has been productive given his circumstances. Kagawa is our 4th most productive player in terms of goals and assists, our best passer in terms of stats, and our fittest player in terms of the beep test. These are unescapable facts.
Fanboy or not: those are pretty decent stats for a flashy "luxury" player in unknown territory.
You've taken a fairly innocuous set of comments about Kagawa and you're having a little hissy fit.
I'm not even criticizing Kagawa and yet you're getting all precious defending him!
My comments about productivity are in regards to the comments from some/many on here that Rooney's productivity could be easily replaced by Kagawa. Rooney, who has for many years scored consistently against the best sides in England and in Europe. Kagawa as of yet has scored in 4 games for United. He hasn't scored in a big game for United and has only one goal against a decent side. All at home. And to clarify. I'm not criticizing him. However as of yet he's not been hugely productive for us. He's not yet showed that he can replace Rooney's productivity. He's not yet shown that we should build our attack around him. He's not yet shown he's undroppable.
Read again.
For instance, Kagawa has 0.3 successful through balls per game(which is higher than any other United player btw), which means that he has a 30% chance of hitting a successful through ball(if he goes for it). Carrick has 0.1 successful through balls per game, which means that he has 10% chance of success.
EDIT:
I find it funny that you find Carrick to be the better passer when the only thing he is better at, is long balls.
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