Shinji Kagawa

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Yeah, Carrick only has higher long balls % because he plays a deep position! The fact that Kagawa has a higher % of assists and through balls has NOTHING to do with him playing in a more advanced position!

STATS!

According to my stats, 92.5% of Mad_Winger's posts are about Kagawa. The other 7.5% are about attacking midfielders.
 
What's the point of comparing Carrick's stats to Kagawa's? This is about as useful an activity as comparing De Gea's passing stats to Rafa's.
 
Mad winger those stats are highly misleading Carrick has played a lot more than Kagawa and he plays from a deeper position so you would expect less through balls from Carrick. He also attempts more difficult passes. The difference in other stats are really too negligible for them to bang home your point. This is why I am not a fan of 'stats' people use them to shape their arguments stats can bang home a point but shouldn't be all you have. What exactly are 'key passes' btw

Kagawa is a talented player and we saw that in glimpses this past season but he still has something to prove. He was injured and played out of position and that should be considered but he looks different to anything we have. The way we currently play will not bring the best out of him but we will see how he is used next year he needs to be behind the main striker to play best.
 
Andrew~ said:
What's the point of comparing Carrick's stats to Kagawa's? This is about as useful an activity as comparing De Gea's passing stats to Rafa's.
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He said Kagawa was our best passer now Scholes has gone. I said no Carrick was and got presented with those irrelevant stats.

I'm not even going to proceed with my point because I sense they'll only fall on deaf ears.
 
@Madwinger, you seemed to have missed one vital stat out of those you mentioned: How many passes both actually have made.

Kagawa :734 out of 834

Carrick : 2443 out of 2774

that's 3 times the amount of passes made, of course their pas completion % would be slightly different. As for crosses per game, I'm not surprised Kagawa beats him on crosses ; He's played out wide most of this season. You can't really make crosses from the middle. As for assists, Kagawa playing a more advanced role should be expected to make more assists, he's more attacking minded than Carrick, which is why his through balls per game is higher.

You say stats aren't completely useless, well you're right in one aspect. The way you used it here though is completely useless.
 
Carrick played 36 games to Kagawa's 20, pointless comparing stats. They're both great passers of the ball. Carrick's probably better at long passing, whereas Kagawa's good close-control and quick feet make him great at short passing. I don't know why anyone would care though.
 
Goooose said:
Carrick played 36 games to Kagawa's 20, pointless comparing stats. They're both great passers of the ball. Carrick's probably better at long passing, whereas Kagawa's good close-control and quick feet make him great at short passing. I don't know why anyone would care though.
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This. This is the only sensible way of looking at it.
 
Playing from the left I see. Wonder what Klopp will make of that... :rolleyes:
 
He has the best touch of any player in this game by far. That being said some of the Aussie touches have been gigantic.

edit: feck that was an amazing chance. :drool:
We are so shite.
 
Holman, king of the "Having the mare of all mares, how is this guy a professional footba- OH HE'S SCORED A SCREAMER. WHAT A PLAYER.." every game.
 
Mad Winger said:
I've bolded the parts where the player is superior. Italics where they are equal.

Carrick:
Passing accuracy: 88.1%
Successful through balls per game: 0.1
Key passes per game: 1
Successful crosses per game: 0.2
Successful long balls per game: 5.8
Assists: 4 assists in 3044 minutes


Kagawa:
Passing accuracy: 89.7%
Successful through balls per game: 0.3
Key passes per game: 1
Successful crosses per game: 0.3
Successful long balls per game: 1.5
Assists: 4 assists in 1314 minutes


Carrick only beats Kagawa with long balls, but that is only to be expected, given his position on the field. It's also worth to keep in mind that Kagawa is in a more advanced position, which makes it harder for him to pick out the right pass and gives him less time to think. Carrick is awesome, but a lot of his strength comes from his intelligence, positioning, and defensive efforts. When it comes to passing in general, Kagawa slightly edges it. I know that stats aren't everything, but they're not completely useless either.

Either way, passing is not even considered one of Kagawa's biggest strengths.
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:wenger:

You don't really think you can judge the quality of someone's passing by success rates and nothing else? It tells you absolutely nothing about the quality and difficulty of these passes. People criticise Carrick for too much sideways passing but at least 2/3 of Kagawa's passes are simple 4-5 yard passes to whichever midfielder's in space. He's been far too timid on too many occasions and that's where he'll improve as a player at United. He'll become more of an individual even if that doesn't come naturally to him and he'll be far better for it. The first cup game v West Ham is the perfect example of where most of Kagawa's successful passes come from. He and the team received a bizarre amount of praise on here for playing some great football in which they spent 80% of the game fannying about in the middle of the park with no purpose until Giggs and van Persie came on and saved the day.

Not one of those stats illustrates anything about anything other than they're both quite good at keeping possession. Keeping possession very well and being a great passer are fundamentally different things. There's no stat available to the public (and most likely no stat available professionally) that measures passing quality. I suppose the stats also tell you that one's a deep-lying playmaker who likes long balls and one's an advanced playmaker who likes throughballs but then if you find that illuminating, well...

Eirik Raude said:
Seems to have an almost free role though, not playing as a traditional winger. Wanders into the middle quite a lot.
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Which is exactly how he plays for us when he plays out wide.
 
Eirik Raude said:
Let's buy Keisuke Honda, maybe him and Kagawa together could get the best out of each other.
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As long as we don't have to hear the commentators say 'Kay-Skay Honda'. Have a fecking listen to this absolute bowel trout Andy Harper.
 
Carl said:
Playing from the left I see. Wonder what Klopp will make of that... :rolleyes:
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He does every time I watch him for Japan, I think it's clear he can play there effectively, even if we've only seen glimmers of it for us. Any struggles from him this season I'd wager have largely down to adapting to the league and being dicked around by Fergie even after good performances. I think a natural growth in influence and confidence next season will see him make more of a difference no matter where he plays.
 
Good game and moments of brilliance from Shinji. Happy days.
 
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