Shinji Kagawa

[ninety]

My time machine works! It's Christmas 2012 again!

I wasn't in this thread at Christmas bloke. Stop playin funny buggers

 

[Brwned]

I don't know what you're getting at. SAF was beginning to try out Kagawa more often in the No 10 position (especially when Rooney was substituted).

I was getting at this point:

If SAF was still around I think Kagawa would have been given more opportunity to play No.10 position, but Moyes? Dunno.

Kagawa started as a #10 just twice from March onwards which was pretty much in keeping with how he was used all season. He clearly wasn't trusted to be given such a central role yet.

As surf said he's got a fight on his hands to get in there ahead of Welbeck (and Hernández) never mind Rooney.

 

[bosnian_red]

I agree with Brwned here. As much as we'd all love to see Kagawa given the number 10 spot, that is in fact one of the most important positions on the pitch and has to be earned. Rooney has been there for the best part of 9 years, and has been world class for us. I don't think Kagawa on what he has done so far deserves to start there ahead of Rooney. I don't agree on Welbeck being there ahead of him though, because he's only played in the hole once so far, and I can't see him staying there. We might want to play with two strikers plenty of times though so Kagawa I think will still play pre-dominantly from the left, drifting inside, like he does for Japan. I have no doubt that he'll break into the team this year though.

 

[Raees]

I was getting at this point:

If SAF was still around I think Kagawa would have been given more opportunity to play No.10 position, but Moyes? Dunno.

Kagawa started as a #10 just twice from March onwards which was pretty much in keeping with how he was used all season. He clearly wasn't trusted to be given such a central role yet.

As surf said he's got a fight on his hands to get in there ahead of Welbeck (and Hernández) never mind Rooney.

Agreed tbh, really does depend on how he physically adapts this season.. pivotal season for him.

 

[George Owen]

Easily the best for the AMC position... he can be our best player this season if used the right way. I hope Moyes dont feck it up.

 

[Ash_G]

Easily the best for the AMC position... he can be our best player this season if used the right way. I hope Moyes dont feck it up.

Tbf it's Kagawa who needs to earn it. Last season it was fair enough to let him ease in but this season left wing or through the middle he needs to show more, other players like Welbeck have shown they can be influential whilst moving across the pitch, Kagawa needs to show that now.

 

[AttackingFlair]

I don't see why a lot of people hate the idea of Kagawa playing on the left. He can have a license to come in field and it means he doesn't need to have his back to goal as often which should suit him as Fergie pointed out last year.

 

[Mad Winger]

To be fair, Kagawa did struggle with an injury for quite a while, and unlike Rooney he actually has to travel across the globe every time he has a national game. Despite this, he had a pretty decent goal/assist return, in terms of minutes played. Only RVP, Rooney and Hernandez did better than him in this aspect. That's not too bad, considering that the first is arguably the best striker in the world, the next has been a striker for United since 2004, and the latter is famous for his effectivity and goal-poaching.

In the last quarter/third of the season, Kagawa was easily one of our better players. In fact, amongst our midfielders/wingers/forwards, only RVP and Carrick were better than him during this period. Had it not been for the mediocre start and injury, I'm positively sure that Kagawa would have gone down as one of our 5 best players of the season, only topped by Carrick, RVP, DDG and maybe Rafael.

Also, according to Rio, Kagawa is the best player in training now that Scholes has retired. That has to count for something.

I think that he will definitely feature on Monday. There's a good chance he will start.

 

[George Owen]

I don't see why a lot of people hate the idea of Kagawa playing on the left. He can have a license to come in field and it means he doesn't need to have his back to goal as often which should suit him as Fergie pointed out last year.

He played left last year only because of Rooney.

For the left wing we can play Welbeck, Nani, , Zaha, Young, Januzaj... Specially the bolded ones, are much better options than Kagawa.

let Shinji pull the strings through the middle and magic will happen, specially if surrounded by talented and inteligent players.

 

[kouroux]

I hope a psychological change in his game, less playing it safe and more with audacious passing. Having more movement in front of him would surely help too.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I hope a psychological change in his game, less playing it safe and more with audacious passing. Having more movement in front of him would surely help too.

We don't really play through the middle and that's a big issue with kagawa fitting in. With Dortmund they were such a threat with their incisive passing through central areas that he always has people around to quickly play short passing interchanges with to open up chances. At united our basic move is to play it to the wide player and get crosses in. If we continue playing that way, I'm not sure he'll ever hit the heights he did for Dortmund.

 

[gooDevil]

I would be very interested to see him in a 3 man midfield for us.

 

[Ash_G]

I hope a psychological change in his game, less playing it safe and more with audacious passing. Having more movement in front of him would surely help too.

Yeah I definitely agree on the movement, that's something we need to work on and why for me it's important to get Nani in the team with Kagawa if we can. Nani will make a diagonal run inside and open up an extra passing option, obviously you have RVP, but you can't always pass to him. When Valencia plays and Young to an extent neither really stray far from their position, it's one thing we can definitely add to our game and help bring out more from Kagawa and maybe Rooney when he plays there.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah I definitely agree on the movement, that's something we need to work on and why for me it's important to get Nani in the team with Kagawa if we can. Nani will make a diagonal run inside and open up an extra passing option, obviously you have RVP, but you can't always pass to him. When Valencia plays and Young to an extent neither really stray far from their position, it's one thing we can definitely add to our game and help bring out more from Kagawa and maybe Rooney when he plays there.

It's painful watching those Dortmund compilation on youtube (they are what they are, they only show the great stuff but still) where Kagawa seem to enjoy himself and the way his teammate played with him.

 

[Brightonian]

It's painful watching those Dortmund compilation on youtube (they are what they are, they only show the great stuff but still) where Kagawa seem to enjoy himself and the way his teammate played with him.

Only if you're a stupidly impatient fan. He's had one season, which everyone who knew what they were talking about predicted would be a quiet, settling-in sort of year. Give him an actual chance before watching YouTube compilations starts to become 'painful'.

 

[kouroux]

Only if you're a stupidly impatient fan. He's had one season, which everyone who knew what they were talking about predicted would be a quiet, settling-in sort of year. Give him an actual chance before watching YouTube compilations starts to become 'painful'.

You misunderstood me completely man ...
I didn't point fingers at him with my previous post but more like the tactics used at the club last season and this season maybe (well judging from early signs anyway). This lack of movement and always get the ball wide is at times needs some variety.
He'd be proud of the way you just defended him I can tell you.

 

[manutddjw]

If Rooney ends up staying, I'd actually prefer if we use Shinji on the left.

Aside from goals, the best thing Rooney brought to the team was the defensive help to our midfield when we weren't in possession. Not saying Shinji doesn't help out, but he's not on the level of Rooney or Welbeck in this aspect. For me it comes down to what do we need more. Shinji is probably more creative and a better passer than Rooney is, but creating and scoring goals isn't a major issue for us. Our major issue lies in midfield and when Rooney drops deeper and helps out our midfield, we are better off in our weakest area.

The graphic on the TV screen before kickoff may say Kagawa is playing wide left, but I've noticed last season that whoever plays in that spot is allowed freedom to play more centrally. Only Valencia is required to stay out wide, so it's not like we're asking him to play a role that is unfamiliar to him because he occupies the same role for Japan and is allowed the same freedom to roam as he does with his national team.

 

[Mad Winger]

Aside from goals, the best thing Rooney brought to the team was the defensive help to our midfield when we weren't in possession. Not saying Shinji doesn't help out, but he's not on the level of Rooney or Welbeck in this aspect. For me it comes down to what do we need more. Shinji is probably more creative and a better passer than Rooney is, but creating and scoring goals isn't a major issue for us. Our major issue lies in midfield and when Rooney drops deeper and helps out our midfield, we are better off in our weakest area.

While it is true that Rooney's defensive game is better than Kagawa's, we shouldn't ignore one of Kagawa's greatest strengths: movement.

Kagawa got the best beep-test scores since Beckham, and it shows. Whenever he doesn't have the ball, he's constantly moving into good positions, making himself available for passes. This is in my eyes the most important defensive job the attacking midfielder does. It might be awesome to have some "muscle" in AM, but it's hardly a necessity. It's the CM and defense that are responsible for this. The AMs task is to control the game in the attacking third, make key passes, and occasionally score goals. I think Kagawa is better than Rooney in 2 out of 3 of these aspects, and he should therefore start ahead him(and that's when we ignore the fact that Rooney is a cnut). While Rooney scores more goals, one could argue that Kagawa makes other players better and therefore makes them score more goals as well.

 

[Buchan]

Kagawa > Rooney.

 

[manusteve]

I don't see why a lot of people hate the idea of Kagawa playing on the left. He can have a license to come in field and it means he doesn't need to have his back to goal as often which should suit him as Fergie pointed out last year.

I fear with Moyes in charge, Kagawa may not even get many opportunities on the left side.

Looking at the teams Moyes has picked so far, nothing suggests to me he is an advocate of 4-2-3-1, which is probably the formation in which Kagawa would excel.

 

[BAMSOLA]

I fear with Moyes in charge, Kagawa may not even get many opportunities on the left side.

Looking at the teams Moyes has picked so far, nothing suggests to me he is an advocate of 4-2-3-1, which is probably the formation in which Kagawa would excel.

We were playing a pretty fluid formation against Swansea that could be classed at certain stages as a 4-2-3-1 and Moyes favoured a 4-4-1-1 at times at Everton which is pretty easy to switch to a 4-2-3-1. I don't think there is much to be worried about at this point, he can play the left side role better than Pienaar did for him at Everton.

 

[gza the genius]

Not allowed?

 

[Garethw]

Kagawa > Rooney.

Absolute rubbish.

 

[RDCR07]

Why the hell is he not playing more? He brought Giggs and Young on. I think Kagawa should have come on at the hour mark.

 

[kouroux]

There is something we don't know because SAF was sort of us the same with Kagawa.

 

[Relevated]

Maybe he has a phobia

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Unless he can carve out that No 10 position for himself which he needs sufficient games so to do, he'll be off next summer i fear. That would be such a wasted opportunity for all concerned.

When given the game time last season he was beginning to find his feet in the PL too, particularly in the latter half of 12/13.

 

[Cutch]

Giggs and Young were seen to be safer bets. Young is better than Kagawa defensively and Giggs has done it all. Couldn't bring Rooney off the way he was playing so not surprised he didn't get on. Moyes will ease him into his starting 11

 

[Pink Moon]

The only outfield players better than Kagawa are Rooney and van Persie. It's scandalous that he can't get into the team, imo.

 

[Godfather]

I hope it's just a fitnesse issue so far.

 

[ghaliboy]

Should get a run out in that Welbeck role. With more central stability it would be an interesting selection. Danny's offer of strength and stability i hard to look past at the moment even if there was not much penetration from him today.

 

[ha_rooney]

Should've come on instead of Giggs. I really hope we don't marginalise him this season and he leaves. He showed at the end of last year how good he can and will be.

 

[Theon]

The game was crying out for a bit of a creativity which would have been perfect for Kagawa IMO

 

[Mad Winger]

I will give it a couple of more games. Last game he was knackered after playing in Japan, so it made sense to not play him. Today's game was arguably one of the toughest games of the season, so it might have been clever to not throw him into the deep end of the pool.

Still, I would have loved to see him play today. Hindsight is a bitch, but I truly believe we would have scored with him on the field.

 

[Ash_G]

Why the hell is he not playing more? He brought Giggs and Young on. I think Kagawa should have come on at the hour mark.

Young was the only player that could come on for Valencia, that width was our best weapon, we just leaked the cross which young out in a few very good of. Kagawa could have come in for giggs that's fair enough but maybe moyes wanted his extra experience. There wasn't anyone else he could come on for as rvp and Rooney weren't going off.

 

[Phil]

I don't see why he doesn't play when our wingers are as blunt as they are.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

The game was crying out for a bit of a creativity which would have been perfect for Kagawa IMO

I too did think he'd be able to provide that Scholes-esque killer pass if given the opportunity.

We can start a team like we did today and stay pretty much where we are in terms of the development of the team, or we can show some faith in somebody like Kagawa and try and evolve oru style some.

 

[Brwned]

The only outfield players better than Kagawa are Rooney and van Persie. It's scandalous that he can't get into the team, imo.

His performance in Rio's testimonial was easily the worst performance of any of our players in pre-season so I think he's still a while away from top form.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

It will be even harder for him to get games if Nani comes back on good form and we keep (hopefully) Rooney, unless Welbeck is dropped.

 

[Devil may care]

I was hoping he'd come on for Welbeck instead of Giggs, can't see him starting against Liverpool, so it's going to be the waiting game.