Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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He should be judged as player, end of story. Christ, the same muppets who think United should be bidding 50m on random players give a feck about a few million?
Jesus we have some embarassing "fans" that would be better suited to a sugar daddy club.
Stop talking sense.
Release clause.
How do people not understand this? Fellaini had a release clause, Herrera had one too. We paid more than Fellaini's clause but refused to match Herrera's. Why? We'll probably never know. If we wanted him, why didn't we just pay him up if we were ready to hideously overpay for one of our other targets who could have been gotten a lot cheaper?
Fellaini played 177 games for the team of a top league, Herrera played 153 games for two La Liga sides. Not a massive difference in terms of experience on the biggest stage so I'm not sure how we can say that Fellaini is more established. Yes, he's an international; I'm fairly certain Herrera would be as well if he happened to be Belgian. The big lump is just better known in England, is all.
As far as we know it's a straight sale of £27.5m, which to me is about right in the current market value for a player like him. Yes, he had a release clause, but that's not to say Everton wouldn't have added in a sell on fee clause or add on's to that price tag. Fellaini is the type of player we've needed for a while, even going as far back as 09, when it became clear Hargreaves wasn't going to be fit enough. We've lacked a toughness in the midfield since then and whilst Fletcher could do that job, his decreasing fitness levels has left us short of that type of player. I think he'll do well for United, and whilst expensive he's not going to be flashy, it's going to be another Carrick type signing in that it will take a while before people see what he's adding to the team.
Because I know that none of these people were in the room when all of this shit was going on
Right. So why dwell on it?
I'll try
Ha, thought you may of. I'm a bit gutted it's the international break too, can't see Moyes speaking until Friday the 13th though! Unless we do release a statement.
It's not a stick to beat a player. It's a stick to beat Woody and co. who 1) either were too stingy, or 2) went in blindly again as in the case of Fábregas and 3) in any case they were way too late to open negotiations for Herrera.
My problem with Fellaini isn't that we haven't signed Herrera and it's not even that we hideously overpaid for him, though that is an issue as at that price he can't be viewed as a dispensable stop-gap signing. My issue with Fellaini is that I don't think he's good enough.
The "realease clause" for Herrera would have had 15m added in taxes FFS!
So you have written him off before even playing a game for United?
Bayern found a way around that, we could have done too; by all accounts we even had the lawyers who sorted out the Martinez deal working for us. For some reason, however, we decided to start trying two days before the end of the transfer window. Which was stupid.
No doubtIt was clearly intentionally an OTT post just to prove my point, not sure how you can't see that?
It wasn't really different in terms of activity, I guess, it's how it was handled that's the problem. We overpaid by 4m, we publicly failed in attempts to get Fabregas, Herrera, Baines, Coentrao. We waited until the end of the transfer window to actually get Fellaini. It's not like this is all gossip, these are hard core facts released by the clubs themselves.
Yeah, there's so much different opinions on that (no tax, Bayern paid no tax, or VAT which you can claim back, or IVA etc.) it's pretty unclear what the actual cost to United would have been.
No, I have a bloody opinion about him. Jeez, this place. I've seen him plenty of times for Everton.
Does it impact his career in any way if I express my opinion about him on a discussion forum which is meant for expressing opinion? Does it hurt him somehow? Or why does it matter? Am I not entitled to thinking he's not good enough?
"We'll probably never know"? Really? It's quite clearly because paying over 30 million pound for a player in his mid-20s who's never even been capped is fecking insane. I know there was a movement to turn him into the next Xavi because we'd been linked with him, but he's clearly nothing truly special. We baulked at paying an absurd fee for a merely okay player, and, to be frank, we should have told Everton where to stick it too.
Fergie would never have been as afraid of moaning fans as Moyes clearly is.
I hope Fellaini succeeds here, maybe he will do a Carrick. Lord knows we need him to.
Of course, he could do an Ashley Young too. Let's see.
Of course, he could do an Ashley Young too. Let's see.
That's true alright man. Congrats on getting to the All-Ireland Final by the way. Hope ya's win mate, great football!
Back on topic. CM has been our Achilles heal for years alright, but we thought we had that licked with Fletch, Hargreaves, Pogba & Morrisson etc - that didn't turn out great though. We just didn't want to spend big on CM's under Fergie (post Keano), he got great milage out of Scholesy & Giggsy though, but at least Moyesy doesn't seem to have that blindside. Most top clubs in Europe have bought their CM's - we've been tryin to breed them & that hasn't proved fruitful, although Adnan looks a fantastic prospect, the jury is still out on "Clevz" though..
I would guess that Moyes wanted one of either Fabregas or Afro Thunder. We were still hopeful of landing Fabregas and unfortunately, the clause expired.
Once we had given up on Cesc, it was typical brinkmanship. Wait until the last minute and hope to get the best deal. Unfortunately, Everton held the cards and Woodward has ended up under the bus.
Moyes also must have had some doubts seeing as the signing was clearly a panic one at the last minute. Moyes was wary of paying £24 million for him weeks ago and in the end buckled as buying no one would have been worse.
Walcott would improve the team. Doesn't mean I particularly want him here.
Yes, indeed. But we ended up paying 'an absurd fee for a merely okay player' anyway. At least we should have showed some consistency by holding out for real absolute top class if a player like Herrera isn't deemed good enough.
That's social media for ya man. In the past, all we had to rely on was the tabloids & teletext / ceefax - the good aul days
Yeah possibly, I'd find it hard to believe that the club would want one or the other though, two very different players after all.
If United had done it right, paid the cash along with Herrera and deposited the fee as two entities - rather than a individual - then the transfer would have been exempt from tax or VAT.
Gotta admit I think we knew this & it makes me seriously think there was some other motive for why the deal didn't go ahead.
No its not, its pretty clear that the tax we would have paid is £0. It might have been a slightly complicated process to go about not paying it, but theres no way we would have.
Yeah tbh, I'd rather not know the reason. I'm pissed off enough. Really a big fan of Herrera.
Personally, I think we would have gotten both if it was possible, but one of them might have been the sum total either. Although they are different, the squad could be used to accommodate either to good effect? Anything is possible.
Agreed. I didn't think the tax was the issue either. I just replied to someone in this thread who said we were going to pay an additional 15M in tax.
At least we can use the Owen Hargreaves song for him now.
My attitude was if we're going to kick Cleverley out of the first team it should be for someone truly world class, much like Van Persie's quality was what justified demoting Danny. Fabregas or bust, in other words. Considering the stick Moyes is getting for signing just the one CM, it stands to reason that he simply couldn't take that attitude because of our moaning gobshite fanbase.
I do too, I don't really blame the club for Fabregas, except making it so public was a bit silly is all. I'd have been a lot more confident about using a player like Fellaini in midfield if we had someone as absurdly creative as Fabregas in there too, and a three man midfield with them and Carrick would've been great in the big games. It's a shame it was never possible. I'm not sure Carrick and Fellaini alone is going to solve creativity issues, that's why we need Kagawa & Rooney more involved and/or our wingers to get back to form now.
True, though it has happened in the past. We wanted Collymore and bought Cole at the last minute, for example.
I think managers make a list of targets with varying tactics in mind.
Its more likely to be that we had to pay the full fee up front. Nobody wants to do that anymore.
I've always wondered why Fellaini doesn't nest the ball in his barnet and run, kinda like the seal dribble but utilising hair. He's got great elbows to protect himself too.
I think with Fellaini and Carrick as a platform we can do what we want with the front 4. And we have enough creativity in the squad in my opinion, just unlocking it is now Moyes' job.
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