Why does everyone keep putting Kagawa on the left wing in our best starting line-up? In reality it won't happen, even when it does, Kagawa will be much a lesser player there, judging from what I've seen so far. I doubt he will even feature much in Moyes plan, now that we have kept Rooney and bought Fellaini, not to mention when we still have Young, and Giggs in our squad.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Kagawa has played on the left plenty of times for Japan and even for Dortmund at times I think and been fine, did it for us a few times as well with no issue. Plenty of teams play someone like kagawa in a wide position and give them lisence to drift, no reason we can't do the same with evra providing the width. Also I can't believe moyes will play fellaini as a number ten unless we're chasing the game and its a last resort, I don't think that will go down with the majority of fans at all.
They are. How many players have left them for us?
There isn't a lot in it you're right, but absolutely no one but our fans think we're bigger than them. Or even as big probably. In Italy and Germany I'd wager a lot of their top teams/fans/players don't see us as significantly above them either. There's a cabal and we're in it.
You don't do it on footballing success either apparently, otherwise we're way down.
This is obviously a completely different discussion though, and there are threads for it. We're obviously one of the biggest, and in the top toppest bracket, but I've never quite understood what quota we meet to claim we're the capo di tutti capi.
I'm looking forward to seeing him in the team, assuming he plays fairly deep. We've missed having an all-out dirty twat in the middle for a while now.
Why point to European success and ignore domestic success? We are the most successful club in the most prestigious league worldwide. Signing a player from Madrid wouldn't make us a bigger club either.
The English league has only been the most prestigious sporadically. It's most recent stint (which has arguably now passed) came after a long period significantly below Seria A & La Liga (and possibly the Budesliga too) The top foreign players only started coming here in the late 90s.
Again, it's an insular opinion.
I think he'll add a lot to the side. Gustavo was brilliant for Bayern but Martinez's added physicality made a huge difference not just domestically but on the highest European stage. Obviously he had a lot more to his game than just that but I think Fellaini could offer something similar for United. If we'd wrapped up Herrera I'd have made that a brilliant window. As it is, I still think its a decent one.
How many did Nani play at right back?
Wasn't he on the left the game scored his hat trick?
I'm not sure that's the case. While we might not always have been the dominant league, we've always been the one that attracts the most coverage and generates most fanfare across the world. Loads of people love Madrid and Barca but I'm not sure so many people love the league. Same could be said for the Bundesliga and Seria A, which contrasts with the PL IMO.
Good one. Valencia had 9 more games, probably the same amount he's played at right back.
Not sure what the argument is here, he said Valencia gets more assists than Nani, um, he doesn't.
He starte on the left, in fairness he got his hatrick when he went central I think.
But it really shouldn't be an issue, a player like him tucking in is common now and just as we saw against Chelsea when weleck Rooney an rvp were drifting we can do the exact same with him in there.
I think Brwned showed a screenshot or two a while back showing that even when he's on the left he pretty much drifts in all the time and is usually more central, bit like Silva.
Wonder how many more goals nani has in that time as well. The biggest bonus of getting fellaini for me is if we'll feel comfortable to play both nani and kagawa with rvp and Rooney.
Um, there might be a reason Madrid won a whole load of European Cups with relative ease in the 50s and we didn't manage to get one til 68.
Quite a few more. 4/4 seasons he's scored more.
Taking goals and assists into account Valencia has never been more productive than Nani in his time here, even in his player of the year winning season.
Not for this thread, was just responding to Theon's original "fact".
Yeah it shouldn't be an issue, I think what what will help him though is getting another runner which if nani is playing he can do. A player like kagawa needs players making different runs to get the bed out of him, Valencia and to an extent young stay quite fixed to their position, nani coming if his line and making a run inside would be something kagawa can work off well.
If you imagine football only began in 1998, then yes, we're the biggest draw in the most watched league, but as someone who grew up with Italian football unmissable on channel 4 every week, it hasn't always been the case. When we played Juventus in '97, they were the bigger club in my view. We've now surpassed them (though I'm sure most Juventus fans wouldn't agree. They are HUGE in italy) because it's also in flux to a degree.
I also don't really get why getting huge viewing figures for our games makes much difference. We have tonnes of fans in the far east and the like, whoopty do. Madrid & Barca have tonnes in South America, who are an actual footballing powerhouse. Again, it depends what parameters you use. If it's just the visibility of our success or the marketability of our brand, it's a pretty hollow victory.
What's Milan's excuse for winning 6 since '69 then? Or Munich's for winning 5 since the mid 70s? Plus Madrid have still won more CLs than us since 99! That list isn't ECs either - we're closer to the top in that - it's all european competitions.
We can't live off Busby & Fergie as a credible reason why we deserve to be the biggest team in the world. Other clubs have had great teams and eras too.
This is still a conversation for another thread tbf. Plus I'm just going to end up arguing how crap we are, which I don't want to do.
Name any club with multiple European Cups, and they'll mostly be coming from one brief period of dominance supplemented by the odd trophy here or there. Our greatest ever team was cut down in it's prime, had the same happened to Bayern in the mid-70s they'd have won less than they deserved to as well. The same is true for Milan in the late 80s, or Madrid in the 50s, or Liverpool in the late 70s, or Ajax in the early 70s, or Barca recently. I don't really buy into the biggest club in the world schtick (it's clearly Madrid) but you can't use European failure as a stick to beat us with when taken in the true, tragic context.
And the rest of the European trophies don't really mean anything, CWC aside.
Milan have won a European Cup in 4 different decades, 2 a piece in 3 of them. And you can't use the Busby Babes as a reason why we didn't win the league for 26 years, or why we failed to win more ECs than Madrid under Fergie. That's just mental. If I can't hold European success against us, you equally can't hold it hypothetically for us.
I'm not trying to beat us with anything tbf. It was a progressing conversation and I was arguing it accordingly.
I'm not trying to beat us with anything tbf. It was a progressing conversation and I was arguing it accordingly.
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I can't believe Moyes start with Young and Giggs too, do you think manager will play what the majority of fans wants to?
Putting Kagawa on the wing and expect him to blossom there is just wishful thinking. Our system always emphasis on width, while he was more or less playing a free role in Japan when he start at the left. Playing left for Japan is completely different thing as playing left at United.
And no he is not fine at the left, last season he did ok only, all of his better games were in the middle. Dortmund manager even go as far as to openly criticize us when we play him on the left.
Check Kagawa out. He's tracking back.
lol
Just showing it's pointless to point to more games when there are other factors to consider.
How many have left United for them that Utd weren't looking to sell? Not sure that's a qualifying factor. How many would have gone at all were it not for the other attractions Madrid have for foreign players?
Milan won half of their titles in one burst. Do you really think they'd have won six if 2/3 of the team had died in a plane crash flying back from Bremen in 89?
All of the big clubs had extended lulls at some point or other before the modern era rendered such a thing largely impossible (Most weren't as pronounced as ours, admittedly). And but for some hideous misfortune the club would have won two or three European cups before the modern era, putting us up there on 4-6 with all the other European giants even with Fergie's minor underachievement.
The Busby Babes were the best team United had and will ever have. Certainly among the best teams the world ever saw. Some things...you just take on faith.
Well as much as we love the babes that is debatable but definitely they had enormous potential and could very well have dominated for a decade or more
Interview with him coming up on SSN. I suspect the questions will mainly centre around Belgium but I'm sure United will crop up.
I'm expecting at least a couple about Natalie Rooney's bongos.
They didn't though did they. What are you arguing? "We lost possibly our greatest team when the EC was still in it's infancy, therefore our success should be considered equal to all the teams who've surpassed us due to the hypothetical idea we definitely would've won more than them"
It's not how it works I'm afraid. And yes, they'd have still won more ECs than us, with 4. It's also not like that list of European achievement had us swimming in the deep end, with a missing Madrid like era all that could take us top. We were 10th.
All conjecture. You've just basically put all of our failings in the last 60 years onto a tragic accident in 1958. It obfuscates the conversation and encourages me to challenge the hallowed myth of the Babes in order to counter you. It's akin to using the race card tbf.
It's also all irrelevant in a discussion about how we should be considered the biggest team in the world.
Nice sidestep of the release clause bollocks.
Manchester United's Champions league success or lack of can be pinned down to the fact out strongest teams have come in the most difficult era to win the competition. Had we had the side of the last ten years in a different era then it would probably be a different story. A lot of it has come down to misfortune. Since the competition expanded to more than champions only Real and Barca have won more. 3 to our two.
This is definitely true. And unfortunate. But getting back to the original argument, still nothing that propels us to the head of the table of great clubs. As two clubs with a similar grand history have still bettered us in the same environment.
This conversation has never been about us being a huge club. Of course we're a huge club. Merely about the idea we're "The biggest club in the world" Why I'm now arguing about the Busby Babes I've no idea.
It probably came from you pointing to European success as the reason we aren't the biggest. People simply gave reasons why we have not been as successful as those clubs. Pretty legitimate ones at that.
They have bettered us with a financial model in Spain that has allowed them to pay above and beyond what a normal, functional football club can. And even then only just.
I wonder if this guy will turn out to be exactly the type of player Carrick needs as a partner and have all the doubters proved wrong. Lets hope so anyway.
Where are you getting those from, its not what I have found.
Not sure how this is even important, there is clearly not much in it yet you class Nani as a creative player and Valencia not.. Which is mental.
It's important because you brought up their assists as a basis for creativity in the first place. I merely pointed out that Valencia does not have more than him, that's all.
Nani is far more creative than Valencia. I never said Valencia wasn't creative at all, I said our most creative players are Nani, Rooney & Kag.
EDIT: From ESPN
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