Dunno now, far more sources point to 27.5m than 23.5m. Our club only said that a while after and then Everton completely shot it down. I'd say 27.5m is the more likely sum here.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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Heh - I actually vouched for him last season. You'll find the post in the Herrera thread. It's me stupidly claiming we'd be able to pick him up for about £20 mill. Hehe.
And yes, looking at the bigger picture then Fellaini was probably a sounder gamble in Moyes and the club's eyes.
Aye, seeing a midfielder of his presence roaming around our midfield and hassling the opposition will be refreshing. It's been a long time since we've had that kind of presence/fear factor in central midfield. Not to mention, he's a much better football than people are giving him credit for.
OK, like I said, neither fee would bother me, and Everton having sold their best player would like to be seen to do as well as they could, so they have some interest in spin.
But it does matter greatly how the payment is structured.
Absolutely, it serves Everton no end, especially Kenwright, to come off as having got one over on us.
surely its time for Scholes to make a comeback? Cleverly looks like a squad player, Anderson looks like two squad players, Fletcher..well.. and that only leaves Carrick. We're dying for somebody who can show some presence in our midfield for more than 2 or 3 games in a row. Fellani will bring that, regardless of how much we paid for him,
The need was for a "good midfielder", not a "good value for money midfielder".
The need was for a "good midfielder", not a "good value for money midfielder".
Good point.
I saw something on TV about the Soldado deal to Spurs as an example. They agreed to pay £28 million - slightly more than his buyout clause, with it equally apread over 5 years. The club can easily pay that with the TV money and revenue they earn every year.
Im sure most deals are structured like that where they can be.
To the posters in this thread that are complaining about the additional money that Fellaini cost us - I hope you aren't the same crowd that were complaining that we didn't fork out the extra that it would have taken to land Herrera. He cost what he cost - its now completely irrelevant and should be of no concern to any of us.
As Ciderman posted earlier, the videos of Fellaini show a player that consistently moves the ball forward, and this is all that Ferguson ever asked of his midfield players, as evidenced by our squad of midfielders who all have the same main characteristic - they can pass. We have explosive forward players, and our chances of winning a football match are almost entirely reliant on how often we can give them the ball.
Fellaini can do this (at least) adequately, and in addition he offers presence in both boxes and will probably give us 10 goals a season. And he has great hair. Personally I couldn't give a toss what he cost us, and I never will about any player until the club start asking me to chip in. He will improve us, and he gives us things that we don't already have.
As Ciderman posted earlier, the videos of Fellaini show a player that consistently moves the ball forward, and this is all that Ferguson ever asked of his midfield players, as evidenced by our squad of midfielders who all have the same main characteristic - they can pass. We have explosive forward players, and our chances of winning a football match are almost entirely reliant on how often we can give them the ball.
Fellaini can do this (at least) adequately, and in addition he offers presence in both boxes and will probably give us 10 goals a season. And he has great hair. Personally I couldn't give a toss what he cost us, and I never will about any player until the club start asking me to chip in. He will improve us, and he gives us things that we don't already have.
I would wager that over 95% of transfer deals over £5m are structured. Big businesses do not want to pay out huge lump sums for anything.
The fee itself doesn't really bother me, because as I said before, it's unavoidable to pay over the top for players in the current climate. It does irk me however that we waited until the 11th hour to get him, rather than just getting him two months earlier for less money.
Have to move on from that though, mistakes happen and you'd presume there was some sort of rationale behind waiting so long, whatever the hell it could have possibly been.
Is this relevant? Almost all big transfers are.
We are all here for you to help you with this, we love you Cina. Failing that call 1850 60 90 90 or email info@smaritans.org. Now I have to go and clean up an actual mess casused by my actual children. x
feck you !Yes it is relevant in this case - because if you go the buyout clause route then you have it pay it all upfront, it is likely that we are paying a higher amount but in installments.
Also reports suggest that Fellaini took a lower salary to offset any extra - who knows if it is true or not.
Yeah good point actually.
I just hope his afro fits in Old Trafford. I knew we should've gotten that extension...
No, he doesn't have to say anything at all. But I could really do without his self-pitying persecution bollocks.
It's an exagerated claim, but there's an underlying truth. I am 100% confident that if Herrera had spent the last 4 years bossing Everton's midfeld with pink dreadlocks while Fellaini played abroad with a non-descript short back and sides, there a certain quite large section of people on here whose opinions would be entirely reversed.
As somebody said earlier, it's snobbery, basically... the usual "I knew about this player first" & "Premier League is shit" brigades.
And especially the Fellaini naysayers.
TBF, there's a difference between complaining about paying way over a release clause and complaining about failing to meet a release clause.
I don't think it's the case, but in a basic analysis there's the possibility that £4m less for Fellaini may have enabled us to meet Herrera's release clause.
And the rumour was that the buyout clause required the full amount in cash upfront.
The fact that people actually believe this tripe is just mind-boggling.
Yet again out-debated at every point by that keystone of logical discourse, the Houllier face. Well done, sir.
Of course he's different, as almost every individual player is. The fact remains though that if Fellaini plays, Cleverley or Carrick won't. This means that you have to compare his "up side" to theirs, as you will be losing their qualities to accommodate his qualities... Do you follow? Who would you have us compare him to if not someone whose qualities we will "lose" to accommodate him?
Again I am not disagreeing that Carroll was ludicrously expensive. But the point remains that just because United (or Liverpool, or any club) decide to spend a large fee on a player doesn't instantly mean he will be a success, or is worth the fee, or that any slightly cynical person must be chastised or lambasted until proven conclusively right. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of any player; mine is that Fellaini will be a decent-good squad signing but is firstly never going to be "a £27.5m" (or £23.5m) player and secondly will not be anything special. This doesn't mean I've written him off and doesn't mean I'm waiting for him to fail. Likewise it doesn't mean I don't want him to succeed; if he turns out to be the next Yaya Toure it could make us a dominant force for years to come and I'll be delighted.
I hate the fact that people still believe that Carrick wasn't appreciated because he isn't glamorous. Carrick wasn't appreciated 5 years ago because he wasn't playing well enough to be appreciated. It is only the last 2-3 seasons he's really stepped up. Bizarrely enough a few months after he did make that step up, he started to get appreciated by the fans.
This moronic notion that fans only rate small Brazilian players with "inho" or "aldo" in there name is just that, moronic. If Fellaini comes in and plays very well consistently I will happily concede that I misjudged him and all our fans will give him every credit that his performances deserve (just as Carrick now receives and every other top player before him). I am somewhat skeptical however that if he shows himself as merely a decent overpriced squad option the other side of the opinion poll will concede as such. I imagine that learned fans such as yourself will champion the "unglamorous" job that he is doing and shoot down everyone else as merely not understanding what he does for the team.
/edit: Oh and I still think Kagawa has absolutely everything to prove in a red shirt and should only get in the side on merit (which he hasn't yet done).
What sort of discussion do you want on the issue?
It's a small-minded and condescending viewpoint. You're choosing to believe that people don't like Fellaini because they're of their discriminatory opinions on his hair and his nationality. That's complete and utter bollocks imo.
Not every poster is going to rate the same players. Some players polarise opinion, even within our team. One poster can love a players technique and style whilst somebody else might not rate it at all. Because people are expressing a different view on Fellaini to yours, it doesn't mean that there is a reason outside of his actual footballing ability/style for it.
It's actually quite rude to try to claim anybody's negative opinions of Fellaini are because of his hair/nationality when they haven't expressed anything of the sort. And it should also be said that people could love how Fellaini plays and not still like his hair, the two aren't mutually exclusive, but to claim that people don't like him, or have certain negative opinions of him because of his hair is quite simply stupid beyond words.
To put 4 mil into context - we spent around 7 mil on Bebe....
I don’t understand some of the pessimism and negativity, frankly. It’s fair enough to think Fellaini isn’t the greatest purchase in history, and that we might have done better if we had invested our money elsewhere. But he’s here, we have bought the fecker and there’s no going back on that.
Now, to me this is pretty simple. Fellaini gives us, at worst, an extra midfielder to provide competition for Cleverley/Ando and cover/rest for Carrick. That is an improvement in itself. Even if it should turn out that his presence only slightly improves our options, it’s still an improvement.
At worst. That can’t be anything to moan about, can it? He wasn’t first choice? Alright, fine - why is that a problem? Would it be preferable if we hadn’t bought a soul? I don’t get it. Instead of looking at all sorts of hypothetical problems (he will know he wasn’t first choice and...what? Be reluctant to sign? He’s already signed. Get slaughtered by the press and the fans because...of what? It will be expected, somehow, that he performs to the level of a Fabregas because...he was second choice to said Fabregas who ended up not signing? The logic is non-existent. Even the English tabloids aren’t that fecking thick, nor are our fans) we should look at the alternatives to signing Fellaini. The realistic ones. They are slender indeed. In fact, the most likely alternative is no signing at all.
I’m not sure what people are worried about. Do they think signing Fellaini means we’re stuck with him in our starting XI for ever? That he’ll now stand in the way of us ever buying a Gündogan or a Whatshisface next summer? Not very likely. Moyes wanted a couple of midfielders. He might get another in as soon as January, regardless of how Fellaini performs. And if the latter doesn’t perform very well, I doubt very much Moyes will play him for spite.
Now, to me this is pretty simple. Fellaini gives us, at worst, an extra midfielder to provide competition for Cleverley/Ando and cover/rest for Carrick. That is an improvement in itself. Even if it should turn out that his presence only slightly improves our options, it’s still an improvement.
At worst. That can’t be anything to moan about, can it? He wasn’t first choice? Alright, fine - why is that a problem? Would it be preferable if we hadn’t bought a soul? I don’t get it. Instead of looking at all sorts of hypothetical problems (he will know he wasn’t first choice and...what? Be reluctant to sign? He’s already signed. Get slaughtered by the press and the fans because...of what? It will be expected, somehow, that he performs to the level of a Fabregas because...he was second choice to said Fabregas who ended up not signing? The logic is non-existent. Even the English tabloids aren’t that fecking thick, nor are our fans) we should look at the alternatives to signing Fellaini. The realistic ones. They are slender indeed. In fact, the most likely alternative is no signing at all.
I’m not sure what people are worried about. Do they think signing Fellaini means we’re stuck with him in our starting XI for ever? That he’ll now stand in the way of us ever buying a Gündogan or a Whatshisface next summer? Not very likely. Moyes wanted a couple of midfielders. He might get another in as soon as January, regardless of how Fellaini performs. And if the latter doesn’t perform very well, I doubt very much Moyes will play him for spite.
Trying to put anything in context with the Bebe transfer is pointless because it's a complete anomaly.
Nobody is saying he will succeed just because we bought him, that's a simplistic interpretation of what is being said, ignoring all context just so you can have a whine. The comparison to Carroll hinges on the fee only, nothing else is similar so it was and remains a stupid comparison.
Carrick was always quietly doing his job, he was a nailed on starter in the clubs most successful period ever.
There is a modern trend for small barca-esque players, if you don't see that fair enough, and if you don't see the difference between the Kagawa thread where the player gets the benefit of every doubt and this one where potential negatives are being bigged up, then again fair enough.
I'm not more learned than most, just not as hysterical. Thanks though.
This is true, of course. Still, there is a tendency to under-appreciate a player who isn't, let's say conspicuous enough, and Carrick has been a victim of this from time to time. Much more among non-United fans than among ourselves, be it said.
So many people moaning about the pessimism and I don't actually see much pessimism or negativity about Fellaini in here. Even those who don't particularly like the signing too much are hoping Fellaini proves them wrong or are willing to see how he does before they form an opinion.
He was never going to be everyone's dream signing which is partly why I think Moyes was waiting to see of he could possibly sign another first (its the only reason I can think of for the Fellaini deal dragging on so late in the window).
Moyes wasn't most people's ideal manager either but now he's here pretty much everyone backs him. It'll be the same with Fellaini.
He was never going to be everyone's dream signing which is partly why I think Moyes was waiting to see of he could possibly sign another first (its the only reason I can think of for the Fellaini deal dragging on so late in the window).
Moyes wasn't most people's ideal manager either but now he's here pretty much everyone backs him. It'll be the same with Fellaini.
No I'm not, that's just how you like to try and paint it because somebody else said it.
It's his profile and the club he plays for that work against him. People see him play all the time, hear people like Hansen praising him on MOTD, and other fans banging on about him because he's a memorable player, and immediately want to find faults with his game. Whereas the less-scrutinised maestro from abroad can do no wrong. It's grass-is-greener mentality at best.
The idea that paying £30m+ for Herrera was a more guaranteed solution and a better option (in a one-or-the-other situation) is bizarre to me... what did Fergie say about sometimes you see a cow in another field?
That may be so but it's still incredibly simplistic to bring everything back to that. I mean, we have Cleverley, a relatively small player whose main strength is keeping possession and going for the simple pass. Yet almost everyone on this forum agrees we need an upgrade there in that position. Many viewed Herrera who stands at six feet tall and was the most effective tackler in La Liga last season as a better option even though he's nothing Barcaesque at all.
Kagawa gets the benefit of the doubt not because he's small but because he was a brilliant key player for a top European side that plays great football. People, not unreasonably, believe that a player with his technical ability can do better, with a run of games, than Ashley Young or Valencia even if starting out wide is not his favourite position.
It's always the same in the Caf. Those who moan about the pessimistic moaners usually far outnumber said pessimistic moaners. If someone expresses a pessimistic/negative view on United it's usually followed by pages of people ranting about how this place is filled with spoilt idiots.
This. He will be either completely brilliant or utterly frustrating, and that sort of uncertainty is very exciting. Maybe I'm just giddy at having a new face in our midfield. Like I was when Cleverley looked about to break through.
I think Carrick has been great almost from the get go. I think we as a fanbase have just taken time to come to terms with him, as we haven't had a player like him that actually worked since Wilkins, another great player who got stick for only passing sideways. In my opinion Carrick has been the answer to England's midfield Gerrard/Lampard based conundrum for best part of a decade, but just lacked the (unnecessary) dynamism for an England CM. To me it's one of football's mysteries. Parker and Barry have come and gone amid all the claptrap and Carrick has been the elephant in the room for years.
I must be imagining that poor old under-appreciated, unglamorous Michael Carrick has been voted as one of our 2 best players for the last 2 seasons (where he has been as such).
I hate that people believe that their opinion is correct and everyone other opinion must be down to his Nationality, size, position or basically any other factor that doesn't include his actual Footballing ability.
I am quite happy to concede that maybe there is more to Fellaini than has ever met my eye and that there is a chance he'll be superb for us, if this occurs I'll have been mistaken in my judgment. It seems unlikely by the posts I've read that the other side of the spectrum would ever concede that they may actually be over-rating his ability.
I could easily say you are merely overrating his Footballing ability because his hair/size mean he stands out on the Football pitch, so he appears to be more involved than he actually is. It would be obviously be total lunacy, just like the opinion that people underrate him for this.
I'm not bringing everythig back to that, that's one line, which came to me viewing the difference in the two threads. Kagawa gets the benefit of the doubt on reputation, most people haven't seen him play more than a handful of times for Dortmund, yet almost all have seen Fellaini destroy us almost on his own.
I think Kagawa should start, so you don't have to sell me the whys.
I know I am. That's a huge part of it. The fact that we've finally brought someone in is exciting in itself.
What are you saying and why using a pissed off scorned girlfriend tone? Grow up.
I am basing the fact that Fellaini will be a regular starter for us on his ability. And having seen him play regularly over the last 5 years, he's not exactly a mystery.
My comment on size and fashionable players was a comment on the forum as a whole and the two threads I mentioned.
And then you get more people still moaning about the people moaning about the pessimists. It's exponential, and it is, as you rightly say, always the same.
For what it's worth there are actually plenty of people in this thread doubting his ability and plenty who think he may have what it takes. There are very few saying he's either definitely shit, or a nailed-on star, so it's a straw-man argument to claim this is what other posters are then reacting to.
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