Shinji Kagawa

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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
The Ashley Young paradox can represent a sizeable fly in the ointment of attempts to comtextualise Kagawa's absence from the team though.

If he continues to be overlooked either as a starter or sub it is also going to be seen as symptomatic of other uncertainties surrounding Moyes at this monent, negativity in the big games for one.

Wee Fergie the one responsible for these decisions he would have the fact of the player being his signing to his credit, as well as a seemingly increasing confidence in the player toward the end of last season. As it is that progress is being stunted and people would rather this wasn't the case, understandable enough instead of cause for the lazy labelling of posters with the "drama queen" tag.
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Young, starting against Liverpool away, with Kagawa not even in the squad should not be used as a bench mark in how Moyes values Kagawa as a player 3 games in. United have been poor away at Liverpool for as long as I can remember. Last year at Anfield, Kagawa started in his prefered position and hardly had any impact in the game despte Liverpool being down to 10 men for the majority of the match.

The fact that Kagawa was a Fergie signing may have given Fergie some credit in the bank, but even he did not escape the criticism of how Kagawa was used and his non- selection of Kagawa in some games after he came back from injury last season. Kagawa not being the new manager's signing, means Moyes is not really under pressure to be compelled to start him whether he is match fit or not. So if he was never an integral player under Fergie last season why should he be under Moyes?

　

As for his progress being stunted at United with 3 games gone, I'd say that's maybe due to an unfortunate set of circumstances to do with a disrupted preseason, a tough start to the PL, and a new manger wanting to give everyone a clean slate. At least the international break has given Kagawa some much needed match time.

To be honest we are really in the unknown in how Kagawa fits into the plans of Moyes in the context of how he wants the team to set up, tactically and technically. Does Moyes know himself? Didn't he say that it would take him 18 months before he imprints his personality on the team?

We know for certain that when everyone's fit, the spine of the 4 attacking positions will be Van Persie and Rooney.

Is Kagawa going to be an integral part of one of the 2 attacking position's left? Or is he going to be rotated with Welbeck, Nani, Young, Giggs, Zaha and just be cover for Rooney if he is injured/rested? Last year Kagawa started 5 of the first 6 PL games in his preferred position due in most part to Rooney's gash injury. Although he was not poor, he was not outstanding either(apart from Everton away) . Whether this was due to adapting to a new league or United's style of play is another matter.

Moyes see's Kagawa in training, will know his strengths and weaknesses. He will know what he done at Dortmund. He will also know that he was subbed in a lot of games he started last season. The important thing for for Kagawa, is to take his oppunities when he does get starts so he can earn the right for Moyes to give him a run of games.
 
redcafe isn't a newspaper, you don't have to write articles.
 
If he doesn't play either game, feel free to lose your shit, RedCafe.net.
 
Honestly though, he lacks upper body strength.


To lift the CL trophy; we're gonna win it in a year or three
 
I don't like the fact he spoke out against Moyes, that just adds fuel to the fire. If it was Fergie he would not have done that. He needs to keep his head down, he will get his chance.
 
He didn't, he gave a generic answer and the press twisted it to make it seem like he was blaming Moyes.
 
#07 said:
Guardian piece: Manchester United star Shinji Kagawa's quotes are lost in translation
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This is what somebody said in the comments section of that article and it's what I fully believe is the case.

As someone with a moderate level of Japanese (nowhere near that of Mr Mabley), I can confirm that the potential for mistranslation is massive when converting to English. Especially if the translator has a vested interest in putting words into someone's mouth...
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I will start raising an eyebrow if he doesn't get a chance this weekend. I felt that he was what we missed vs Liverpool and Chelsea.
 
Apparently kagawa is ill according to Jamie Jackson, and is unavailable tomorrow.

Did moyes confirm this In the presser today?
 
roseguy64 said:
This makes no sense. Why would we punish a player for wanting to leave? He's still a more than capable footballer and as a professional he'll still put in the effort. We keep him for at least this season denying him what he wanted and get the use of his talent on our terms and he's somehow bigger than the club? Ok then.
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You punish a player for trying to force a move twice in the span of a few years. He'll get exactly what he wants in a year and we'll get less for him
 
Sir Matt said:
"Kagawa had to do lots of travelling on international duty so he wasn't ready for today's match."
-Moyes on Saturday
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Thats probably correct though isn't it? Especially given as Welbeck missed the midweek game.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Thats probably correct though isn't it? Especially given as Welbeck missed the midweek game.
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Yep. Fergie used to regularly drop the guys traveling to South/North America and Asia after international week.

It won't stop the moaning on here tomorrow when he inevitably doesn't feature.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Yep. Fergie used to regularly drop the guys traveling to South/North America and Asia after international week.

It won't stop the moaning on here tomorrow when he inevitably doesn't feature.
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I said all along I have a feeling he'll play in Europe more, so I think he'll start vs Leverkuson.
 
I hope Kagawa hides in Fellaini's wig and jump out at the last minute as the teams enter the field.

That'll teach Moyes, the cold hearted abstard.
 
“We’ve got enough people who can play the No 10 role, like Kagawa, Rooney, Danny Welbeck and Adnan Januzaj, who is coming through.” - Moyes
 
Hopefully we see Kagawa at his best for us this year. We don't have that many genuinely top class players, certainly not as many as we used to. Kagawa has all the ability to be one for us if we can just integrate him into side properly. These interruptions in his preparation aren't good, I was hoping he'd be a first team regular from the very start of the season.
 
walsh said:
When was his most recent game for Japan? Will long-haul flying play a part in his (non)selection tomorrow?
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Yes, he will have had 2 days in the UK after his 12 hour flight back from Japan. Kagawa needs to be at his best to prove his worth as a starter and by starting him tomorrow wont allow him to be at his best. I hope he doesnt start for his sake.
 
Stack said:
Yes, he will have had 2 days in the UK after his 12 hour flight back from Japan. Kagawa needs to be at his best to prove his worth as a starter and by starting him tomorrow wont allow him to be at his best. I hope he doesnt start for his sake.
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I actually disagree. He seems to be fit and he also has two recent competitive games under his belt, so it's safe to say that he's "warmed" up at the very least.

Also, playing at home against Palace ought to be the perfect game for Shinji, since we're gonna dominate possession and spend the majority of the game on their half, looking for through balls to RVP. It wont be the most physically demanding PL game for Shinji to start with, I think. It's significantly easier than the other games we've had so far at least.
 
I don't get the whole "he hasn't played many matches" reason for Kagawa's non inclusion. We threw Hernandez on against Liverpool and he's played even less football since last season than Kagawa has and Hernandez changed the game for us.
 
Mad Winger said:
I actually disagree. He seems to be fit and he also has two recent competitive games under his belt, so it's safe to say that he's "warmed" up at the very least.

Also, playing at home against Palace ought to be the perfect game for Shinji, since we're gonna dominate possession and spend the majority of the game on their half, looking for through balls to RVP. It wont be the most physically demanding PL game for Shinji to start with, I think. It's significantly easier than the other games we've had so far at least.
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No off season for the lad, no mental break from the game, a busy summer of training and games on the international front as well as the international travel that included.

A 12 hour international flight across multiple datelines back to the UK with just 2 days to recover and rumours he is also suffering from the Flu. You really want him to fail dont you?.
 
Stack said:
No off season for the lad, no mental break from the game, a busy summer of training and games on the international front as well as the international travel that included.
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While I agree that him not playing vs. Palace should not create a mass panic (him not playing vs. Leverkusen aswell would be worrying, though), this constant general excuse of him not having an off season because of the Confed cup and thus not getting playing time at all is pretty silly in my eyes. I could name at least a dozen players, who played more matches than Kagawa and are already back at featuring/starting at their respective clubs in this season, some of them even for more than 3 games (Cavani and Silva for example).

This alone was surely not the only reason, why Kagawa did not play at all in the league thus far.
 
Sphaero said:
While I agree that him not playing vs. Palace should not create a mass panic (him not playing vs. Leverkusen aswell would be worrying, though), this constant general excuse of him not having an off season because of the Confed cup and thus not getting playing time at all is pretty silly in my eyes. I could name at least a dozen players, who played more matches than Kagawa and are already back at featuring/starting at their respective clubs in this season, some of them even for more than 3 games (Cavani and Silva for example).

This alone was surely not the only reason, why Kagawa did not play at all in the league thus far.
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Moyes has hardly had any time with Kagawa, all thats going on is just unfortunate timing and circumstance but muppets on here are reading way too much in to it all.

ripped off from the guardian.

Southampton's Maya Yoshida, whose brief July break was not interrupted by the two club friendlies Kagawa had to play against J League sides, said last Friday – in excellent English – that only now does he feel ready to start a Premier League match again after travelling to the Far East, Middle East and South America with the national team this summer.

Silly excuse? seriously, give Kagawa his best chance to shine, let his first game this season for us be one where he is 100% fully fit mentally and physically. A 2 day break after an international flight across multiple time zones for anyone who has ever flown really isnt enough time to 100% recover, especially for an athlete expected to perform at the highest level. I hope he doesnt start the Crystal Palace game for his own sake.
The rest of you can moan if he doesnt so that you can feed your conspiracy theories....
 
Stack said:
No off season for the lad, no mental break from the game, a busy summer of training and games on the international front as well as the international travel that included.

A 12 hour international flight across multiple datelines back to the UK with just 2 days to recover and rumours he is also suffering from the Flu. You really want him to fail dont you?.
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First of all, he's had more than 3 full days of rest(seriously, flying first-class isn't THAT uncomfortable). Secondly, while having a busy summer, he only took part in 3 out of 7 pre season games. He also got to rest for 3 weeks after the season started, seeing as he didn't play, other than in the Community Shield.

Hasn't it been well-established by now that it's no longer a matter of physical fitness? It all boils down to these two things:

1. Kagawa needs more game time in order to get his groove back. That's more of a technical thing, rather than a physical thing. The only way to overcome this, is by playing games. So why didn't he start any games yet? Because they were too tough to start with. It's as simple as that, really. You just don't throw someone into the deep end of the pool, especially if...

2. ... you don't know if the player is good enough to start in the first place. In this case "you" being "Moyes". Make no mistake: a new manager means new times. Moyes can't just take Fergie's word for it and start Kagawa because he's "supposedly good enough". He needs to see that for himself, and he hasn't had that chance yet, which explains why he was so reluctant to start Kagawa in the first place. Especially when the first games were so hard.

I'm not saying that I agree with Moyes' decision(and that's not just because Kagawa is my favorite player), but I can definitely see where he is coming from.

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Kagawa seems to have started to find his groove again(in the Japan games), he's physically ready to play, and we're facing one of the weakest opponents in the PL, at home. Unless those rumors about him getting the flue are correct, then I say we start him! I really see no reason why he can't start at this point, unless we're saving him for the Leverkusen game.
 
Mad Winger said:
First of all, he's had more than 3 full days of rest(seriously, flying first-class isn't THAT uncomfortable). Secondly, while having a busy summer, he only took part in 3 out of 7 pre season games. He also got to rest for 3 weeks after the season started, seeing as he didn't play, other than in the Community Shield.

Hasn't it been well-established by now that it's no longer a matter of physical fitness? It all boils down to these two things:

1. Kagawa needs more game time in order to get his groove back. That's more of a technical thing, rather than a physical thing. The only way to overcome this, is by playing games. So why didn't he start any games yet? Because they were too tough to start with. It's as simple as that, really. You just don't throw someone into the deep end of the pool, especially if...

2. ... you don't know if the player is good enough to start in the first place. In this case "you" being "Moyes". Make no mistake: a new manager means new times. Moyes can't just take Fergie's word for it and start Kagawa because he's "supposedly good enough". He needs to see that for himself, and he hasn't had that chance yet, which explains why he was so reluctant to start Kagawa in the first place. Especially when the first games were so hard.

I'm not saying that I agree with Moyes' decision(and that's not just because Kagawa is my favorite player), but I can definitely see where he is coming from.

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Kagawa seems to have started to find his groove again(in the Japan games), he's physically ready to play, and we're facing one of the weakest opponents in the PL, at home. Unless those rumors about him getting the flue are correct, then I say we start him! I really see no reason why he can't start at this point, unless we're saving him for the Leverkusen game.
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What a load of utter bullshit. Thank feck you arent in charge of player well being. Its a long season not a sprint. Truth is all you want to do is perpetuate the idea Moyes doesnt want Kagawa. Even 3 full days rest for isnt enough for fecks sake. Whoopy shit if its first class, it doesnt help the time zone changes and body clock adjustments, firstly when he went on duty for japan and then the return adjustment. Add in even when its first class you are stuck in a small space for over 12 hours and remember the hour or 2 either side dealing with customs, boarding, disembarking etc etc. There is a thing called a mental break as well as a physical one. Players do end up jaded.

Kagawa needs to get his groove back and trying to force him to do it after an international flight coupled with international duty which also involves international training doesnt give him a fair chance of getting his groove back.

fecking hell, people really dont want to give the guy a chance to shine do they.
 
Well, I think that he ought to be ready mentally and physically for this game, unless he has a flu. But that is an argument that we're never going to finish, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Oh, and stop making rash and silly conclusions about other posters opinions.
 
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