Rooney and RVP are free to move wherever they want. The extra width is provided by our fullbacks.
And yeah, its just an option... the thing is we have a big squad, we are not forced to play 4-2-3-1 everytime.
Shinji Kagawa
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Rooney and RVP are free to move wherever they want. The extra width is provided by our fullbacks.
And yeah, its just an option... the thing is we have a big squad, we are not forced to play 4-2-3-1 everytime.
Thanks for your insightful post, it really added to the debate.
On topic I really hope Kagawa gets the chance in the next two games, I can understand if we play him coming in from the left.
A front four of RVP, Rooney, Kagawa and Nani all on song would be frightening.
IMO it doesnt make any sense to start a player who has played 2 matches in a week on the otherside of the world when there are several who have not played much or at all - the Leverkusen match would make more sense
we shall see if Moyes agrees.
Indeed you're right, but I'd rather have settled system which players are comfortable which benefits the team, then a unorthodox formation just so one player can be in his most desirable position at the expense of the team.
well, we bring up that formation to show a way in that Rooney and Kagawa could play together in their best positions.
I agree with you that our 4-2-3-1 is our best set up. Absolutly. And i wouldnt change it to accomodate Kagawa. I would just put him straight into the AMC position.
Then he won't succeed here, simple as that. Good player but if you plan to operate a striking duo of RVP and Rooney, we should never have bought him. If Moyes doesn't have plans for him behind the striker, he had beter sold him in the summer.
Absolutely hating the way we are destroying this player...
Compelling argument, but if Young is 100% fit and has impressed Moyes in training during the short time he has been manager, then it's abolutely legit to play him ahead of Kagawa, even though "everyone" knows that the latter is the better player.
People need to calm down and let Moyes do what he thinks is best. At least let a few months pass before you get your pitchforks
This makes no sense. Why would we punish a player for wanting to leave? He's still a more than capable footballer and as a professional he'll still put in the effort. We keep him for at least this season denying him what he wanted and get the use of his talent on our terms and he's somehow bigger than the club? Ok then.
its a long season, Rooney and Rvp wont play every game. Injury and rotation will have an impact. In 1999 we didnt just use cole and yorke.Then he won't succeed here, simple as that. Good player but if you plan to operate a striking duo of RVP and Rooney, we should never have bought him. If Moyes doesn't have plans for him behind the striker, he had beter sold him in the summer.
Absolutely hating the way we are destroying this player...
destroying this player???????
fecking drama queens
This and the Fellaini thread are full of them recently. It's baffling stuff, 3 bloody games into the season!
It is a bit media-driven I think. It's a long season and too early yet to know how Moyes is going to run everything.
It's too early to draw conclusions - three games in, a really tough start, and a new manager who has probably been a touch too conservative means that Kagawa has barely had a sniff. Thing is, had SAF still been in charge, not an eyelid would've been batted. People are looking at every little thing to try and undermine Moyes. I think his 'treatment' of Kagawa has been understandable so far. That said, it's going to be more difficult for me to make a case if he's marginalised in our next two (highly winnable) games.
Some players can be great impact subs or dropped in and out of the starting 11 such as Olly and Hernandez but I feel Kagawa's style needs needs some selection continuity to allow him to find his rhythm. You wouldn't take the German player of the year title by being constantly rotated or dropped for example after scoring a hat trick!
Who came up with that nonsense, he never won any individual award in Germany. Marco Reus won player of the year in 2011/12.
I stand corrected, i was simply quoting on what others may have stated, Kagawa didnt win the official Bundesliga playerof the year. I believe he did win other player of the year awards such as supporters or football writers.
http://www.futaa.com/football/article/kagawa-named-bundesliga-player-of-the-year
Edit.. As cape Town red has just posted ^
Still a f'kin good player though!
Well, he might have won some weird fansite award thingy. He was the best player of the title winning team after all. He never won any official awards though, refering to him as the German player of the year or Bundesliga player of the year seems very wrong to me, because that's Manuel Neuer for Kagawa's first season at Dortmund and Marco Reus for his second.
True, and in a discussion about individual prizes in Bundesliga this would be a central distinction. In this discussion, however, it is a nitpicking derailment (some metaphor ...). The point being that Kagawa delivered well enough in Bundesliga to be considered one of the absolute best players there. Which is true, and not only by fans.
If he could reproduce that kind of level at United, it certainly could be worth accomodating. Then again, when you ha e two more players capable of the same level, it is not a given that you could all three to function at their best, nor that Kagawa would be the best for the team to accomodate to.
I think a lot is made out of this supposed Kagawa-problem. We're three matches into Moyes's tenure here, and Kagawa had a stop-start pre-season.
Let's consider his position at the club after this season, if it turns out he's played less than what his talent or performances merits. I'd say last season was decent bordering on good for him, nothing more, so it's not as he's made himself an indispensable member of the first XI yet. He might get there, and I think he's got the talent.
Let's consider his position at the club after this season, if it turns out he's played less than what his talent or performances merits. I'd say last season was decent bordering on good for him, nothing more, so it's not as he's made himself an indispensable member of the first XI yet. He might get there, and I think he's got the talent.
With games coming thick and fast over the next couple of weeks, I'd raise my eyebrows if Kagawa wasn't involved. First three was slightly understandable, although a 1000 pro game 39 year old starting over a 24 year old quality player who had a slightly stop start pre-season still just doesn't make any logical sense.
Ah, you're conveniently forgetting the "But Giggs adds much needed experience at Anfield"-rule.
Too early to draw conclusions but lets see over the coming weeks what Moyes does.
It's been 3 matches people. Just 3 matches. Get a grip.
3 matches is an age in redcafe time. I've seen decisions made 5 mins into a match.
I think it is the lack of chances that United have created in 180 minutes of football, that has amplified this issue.
No, not really, not when the issue is people losing their shit thinking he will hardly be played at all, which is silly, given we've only played 3 matches so far and Moyes has already explained why he hasn't featured yet.
But it has given them the reason to lose there shit. If United had played well at Anfield and had won, it would not be a issue. People would have accepted Moyes reasons.
They should have accepted his reasons regardless because Kagawa's absence had nothing to do with that match or how we played. He hasn't been fully fit, so hasn't played. Us being shit or great in any of those matches wouldn't have changed that unrelated fact.
We never play well at Anfield though, it's nothing new at all. We could hire Messi just for that game and we'd still struggle at that shithole.
That's true, United were arguably worse there last year, with Kagawa starting.
We've played vs Swansea away, Chelsea at home and Lpool away.. We got 4 points. Last season with SAF we got 4 points from these matches so Moyes is ok in that department... Kagawa will get his matches and hopefully play in his favored position. Cant believe some of the stuff that is being written on here, we are ok with some 50 plus games still to be played....
The Ashley Young paradox can represent a sizeable fly in the ointment of attempts to comtextualise Kagawa's absence from the team though.
If he continues to be overlooked either as a starter or sub it is also going to be seen as symptomatic of other uncertainties surrounding Moyes at this monent, negativity in the big games for one.
Wee Fergie the one responsible for these decisions he would have the fact of the player being his signing to his credit, as well as a seemingly increasing confidence in the player toward the end of last season. As it is that progress is being stunted and people would rather this wasn't the case, understandable enough instead of cause for the lazy labelling of posters with the "drama queen" tag.
If he continues to be overlooked either as a starter or sub it is also going to be seen as symptomatic of other uncertainties surrounding Moyes at this monent, negativity in the big games for one.
Wee Fergie the one responsible for these decisions he would have the fact of the player being his signing to his credit, as well as a seemingly increasing confidence in the player toward the end of last season. As it is that progress is being stunted and people would rather this wasn't the case, understandable enough instead of cause for the lazy labelling of posters with the "drama queen" tag.
Its 3 games in to a new manager and coaching regimes start ffs. "Continues to be over looked" holy feck, the guy didnt get an off season and this weekends game will see Kagawa back in town with just 2 days recovery time from a 12 hour flight that crosses a number of time zones after being away on international duty.
How come people cant get their head round the fact its just 3 games in to a new era and the guy has had close to no off season. Give him a break ffs.
Drama queen for sure.
Absolutely. A hundred times. Especially the media trying to stir sh*t up.
I'm sure Kagawa wouldn't say things like "Ask Moyes" or whatever if the media didn't try to stir things up. It's 3 games in.
Then he won't succeed here, simple as that. Good player but if you plan to operate a striking duo of RVP and Rooney, we should never have bought him. If Moyes doesn't have plans for him behind the striker, he had beter sold him in the summer.
Absolutely hating the way we are destroying this player...
Get a grip, he plays the position for Japan. No one's asking him to pump crosses in from the left. He can play as a tucked in wide player and operate in central areas. No reason why he cant flourish there.
Compelling argument, but if Young is 100% fit and has impressed Moyes in training during the short time he has been manager, then it's abolutely legit to play him ahead of Kagawa, even though "everyone" knows that the latter is the better player.
People need to calm down and let Moyes do what he thinks is best. At least let a few months pass before you get your pitchforks
You are talking bullshite
"Kagawa had to do lots of travelling on international duty so he wasn't ready for today's match."
-Moyes on Saturday
-Moyes on Saturday
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