Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

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lem8sh said:
Not really. He might slow things down a tad but that's to be expected considering he's huge. Don't get me wrong I believe he should start but thats purely down to the lack of options we have there. I just don't think he's the midfielder we need to improve us sufficiently, to take us to the next level in Europe where we have struggled in the middle of the park regularly even going back to Bilbao a few years ago. I feel its our ball retention that was killing us in Europe and that players like Thiago, Fabregas, Modric were the type we needed. His physicality will be of no use against the Barcas, Madrids and Munichs as they will just pass us to death. Against the opposition in the league he will make us more solid especially away from home but at home against the weaker teams, the games when we have 60% possession anyway I don't see what he would offer.
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Yeah, but why are you commenting on one of his performances with basically a complaint that he isn't a Fabregas? I understand that this was a lot of people's reactions when we signed him, but it's bizarre to use that against him after he played rather well in his first start. I guess it's just your issue that you aren't happy that we didn't sign a different type of player, it shouldn't be held against Fellaini though.

lem8sh said:
I agree with that, I just think the improvement is miniscule.
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Fellaini over Cleverley, miniscule? Nah, can't agree with that.
 
lem8sh said:
Not really. He might slow things down a tad but that's to be expected considering he's huge. Don't get me wrong I believe he should start but thats purely down to the lack of options we have there. I just don't think he's the midfielder we need to improve us sufficiently, to take us to the next level in Europe where we have struggled in the middle of the park regularly even going back to Bilbao a few years ago. I feel its our ball retention that was killing us in Europe and that players like Thiago, Fabregas, Modric were the type we needed. His physicality will be of no use against the Barcas, Madrids and Munichs as they will just pass us to death. Against the opposition in the league he will make us more solid especially away from home but at home against the weaker teams, the games when we have 60% possession anyway I don't see what he would offer.
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just quoting you for the future... i hope we play against the Barcas, Madrids and Munichs soon.
 
Ekeke said:
Absolutely nothing in that performance to suggest we needed to sign him and especially for the most we've ever paid for a midfielder. None of our immediate issues were resolved. On the plus side, I've already watched him play far better matches for Everton this season so theres definitely more to come.
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How many times did they get in behind our midfield?
 
NoLogo said:
I also don't get why people keep on the one hand complaining about our "Zombie passing" and on the other hand a player playing a more risky pass is also not to the liking of many on here but I ask myself what they actually want to see?
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People seem to have this idealised vision of tiki-taka crossed with the counter attacking of Dortmund.

I suppose Bayern last season reached that standard but that's a long way away from us right now.
 
NoLogo said:
Which is totally okay in my book. Just look at Dortmund for example who play a very adventurous passing game and often end up with less then 80% passing success but watching them attack is pretty exciting because they risk a lot going forward. They make up for the risky passing through their pressing and winning the ball back really fast.

I also don't get why people keep on the one hand complaining about our "Zombie passing" and on the other hand a player playing a more risky pass is also not to the liking of many on here but I ask myself what they actually want to see?
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Well, I don't think he's great at playing the forward passes and he didn't really try anything elaborate or Dortmund-esque, if that's what you're implying. I was perfectly happy with his performance.

The one time he did try and speed up our attack with a nice first time pass into RvP he succeeded, it's just I want to see more of that sort of pass.
 
walsh said:
Yeah, but why are you commenting on one of his performances with basically a complaint that he isn't a Fabregas? I understand that this was a lot of people's reactions when we signed him, but it's bizarre to use that against him after he played rather well in his first start. I guess it's just your issue that you aren't happy that we didn't sign a different type of player, it shouldn't be held against Fellaini though.
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This is a big part of the reason it took people a long while to get behind Carrick in his first season despite him being excellent within a month. He wasn't the new Keane so he got criticised at every chance.
 
Ekeke said:
Absolutely nothing in that performance to suggest we needed to sign him and especially for the most we've ever paid for a midfielder. None of our immediate issues were resolved. On the plus side, I've already watched him play far better matches for Everton this season so theres definitely more to come.
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He's not our most expensive midfielder, you one-trick pony.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
People seem to have this idealised vision of tiki-taka crossed with the counter attacking of Dortmund.

I suppose Bayern last season reached that standard but that's a long way away from us right now.
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Yeah but Bayern play with Javi Martinez and Schweinsteiger as their midfield 2, which give the likes of Robben, Muller, Kroos, Ribery etc. the freedom to be as effective as they are.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
People seem to have this idealised vision of tiki-taka crossed with the counter attacking of Dortmund.

I suppose Bayern last season reached that standard but that's a long way away from us right now.
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United could achieve that and people here will find something to moan.
 
Striker10 said:
How many times did they get in behind our midfield?
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The goal for one.

Also, the Bender giant chance, in which Fellaini was directly to blame for Bender waltzing past him and then getting a clear chance because he didn't track him.

If your question was "did we look solid in midfield throughout" then I would answer yes, but that's a really poor choice of words if you want to big up Fellaini's performance, mate. There's other ways to skin that cat.
 
walsh said:
Yeah but Bayern play with Javi Martinez and Schweinsteiger as their midfield 2, which give the likes of Robben, Muller, Kroos, Ribery etc. the freedom to be as effective as they are.
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Both of which are amongst the world's top 7 or 8 central midfielders.

It's not really a fair comparison. I wouldn't call Schweinsteiger or Martinez limited passers, for instance.
 
Would like to see him offer himself more in the buid up (hopefully that will come) steady start.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
People seem to have this idealised vision of tiki-taka crossed with the counter attacking of Dortmund.

I suppose Bayern last season reached that standard but that's a long way away from us right now.
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That's true Bayern got a pretty good balance between possession play and fast attacking. It was a pretty unique mixture between the best of van Gaal's controlled possession football and Dortmunds high pressure attacking football but so far they are the only team I have seen playing it to this level. It was also due to a extremely high motivation from a lot of the players that missed out on two CL titles already and I would also argue that player wise they are a stronger team then we are on average.
 
Lawman said:
Would like to see him offer himself more in the buid up (hopefully that will come) steady start.
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He did offer himself in the build-up. The trouble was only Evra really bothered giving him the ball since Smalling clearly didn't learn the sidefoot pass technique while at Maidenhead or whatever that conference side is called, Rio is in full on zombie passing mode and Vidic repeatedly decided to walk with the ball in Fellaini's general direction, whilst said Fellaini was standing there unmarked wanting the ball, before eventually reaching him, turning and passing it to De Gea.
 
Brwned said:
Surely the physicality and solidity of the Schweinsteiger-Martinez midfield has shown how offering a presence can be a very effective tool against a side like Barcelona? Likewise with Brazil's combative midfield getting the better of Spain?
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I think the Munich players you mentioned are a lot more mobile than Fellaini. The same with the Brazilian midfield with Ramires and Paulinho etc. Its his mobility that would catch him out against the kingpins of Europe I think. Time will tell, hopefully.
 
lem8sh said:
I think the Munich players you mentioned are a lot more mobile than Fellaini. The same with the Brazilian midfield with Ramires and Paulinho etc. Its his mobility that would catch him out against the kingpins of Europe I think. Time will tell, hopefully.
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Also, they are fecking world class players both of them in pretty much every aspect of midfield play.
 
marjen said:
Both of which are amongst the world's top 7 or 8 central midfielders.

It's not really a fair comparison. I wouldn't call Schweinsteiger or Martinez limited passers, for instance.
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Carrick isn't a limited passer and Fellaini will prove to be rather useful in that regard I feel. I'm not saying we're as good as Bayern, I'm saying that having a good passing side with excellent potential for counter-attacking doesn't depend on having 2 defence-splitting playmakers in the middle. We've potentially got enough of those in the attacking department.
 
lem8sh said:
I think the Munich players you mentioned are a lot more mobile than Fellaini. The same with the Brazilian midfield with Ramires and Paulinho etc. Its his mobility that would catch him out against the kingpins of Europe I think. Time will tell, hopefully.
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I really don't think that's the case. Neither of them is particularly quick, especially not Schweinsteiger.
 
walsh said:
Yeah, but why are you commenting on one of his performances with basically a complaint that he isn't a Fabregas? I understand that this was a lot of people's reactions when we signed him, but it's bizarre to use that against him after he played rather well in his first start. I guess it's just your issue that you aren't happy that we didn't sign a different type of player, it shouldn't be held against Fellaini though.

Fellaini over Cleverley, miniscule? Nah, can't agree with that.
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Thats a fair point, he was ok today I have said that but that's about as good as he is. He won't improve us that much in my opinion but who knows.

Apart from the 3 foot height difference not much else I don't think!
 
lem8sh said:
I think the Munich players you mentioned are a lot more mobile than Fellaini. The same with the Brazilian midfield with Ramires and Paulinho etc. Its his mobility that would catch him out against the kingpins of Europe I think. Time will tell, hopefully.
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He hasn't got a turn of pace, but I wouldn't say he's particularly immobile. He covers the ground with a fair bit of ease.
 
walsh said:
Carrick isn't a limited passer and Fellaini will prove to be rather useful in that regard I feel. I'm not saying we're as good as Bayern, I'm saying that having a good passing side with excellent potential for counter-attacking doesn't depend on having 2 defence-splitting playmakers in the middle.
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But both Schweinsteiger and Martinez have got drive, ability to go past players, great feet and a very good passing range plus they both excel at quick one touch passing.

In short they're kind of different players, even allowing for the fact that they also offer a physical presence. I don't think Carrick/Fellaini's comparable at all, good players as they might be.
 
marjen said:
But both Schweinsteiger and Martinez have got drive, ability to go past players, great feet and a very good passing range plus they both excel at quick one touch passing.

In short they're kind of different players, even allowing for the fact that they also offer a physical presence. I don't think Carrick/Fellaini's comparable at all, good players as they might be.
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Spot on.
 
lem8sh said:
Thats a fair point, he was ok today I have said that but that's about as good as he is. He won't improve us that much in my opinion but who knows.

Apart from the 3 foot height difference not much else I don't think!
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I think you're massively underestimating what having a big physical presence (and somebody who is very good at exploiting his strength) can actually mean. For a start, we will win a considerable amount more balls back in midfield which is an absolutely vital part of controlling and, ultimately, winning football matches.
 
marjen said:
Well, I don't think he's great at playing the forward passes and he didn't really try anything elaborate or Dortmund-esque, if that's what you're implying. I was perfectly happy with his performance.

The one time he did try and speed up our attack with a nice first time pass into RvP he succeeded, it's just I want to see more of that sort of pass.
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The thing is that a lot of our attacking midfielders are quite high up on the pitch which leaves our CM's usually with the option to carry the ball forward themselves or play a long pass. Considering that neither Fellaini nor Carrick are great dribblers and dribbling in midfield always bears the risk of losing the ball in a dangerous position while a long pass usually only reaches the opposition in their own half so I think he is doing the right thing.

Just to get back to the Dortmund comparsion you just need to look at how many long balls Hummels plays, who is widely regarded as one of the best passing CBs when on form, and how many of them never reach one of his team mates.

I'm not even trying to say we should just hoof it forward but when the opportunity arises a long ball and be a good method to get the ball forward of course Fellaini's timing in that regard is still a bit off but let's all keep in mind that it was his first start with us and some of his long balls already looked quite good.
 
marjen said:
He did offer himself in the build-up. The trouble was only Evra really bothered giving him the ball since Smalling clearly didn't learn the sidefoot pass technique while at Maidenhead or whatever that conference side is called, Rio is in full on zombie passing mode and Vidic repeatedly decided to walk with the ball in Fellaini's general direction, whilst said Fellaini was standing there unmarked wanting the ball, before eventually reaching him, turning and passing it to De Gea.
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Oh, hi Noodle. Name change?
 
lem8sh said:
My grandmother is more mobile than Fellaini :D
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Well I just think you're wrong in your assessment of his attributes, I think you'll be surprised in just how easily he covers the ground and, combined with his strength regularly gets to the ball (and wins it) against seemingly much more 'mobile' players.
 
Brwned said:
I wonder how long it'll take Siorac to admit calling Fellaini a pure destroyer is complete nonsense...
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He did well tonight. His passing is more adventurous than i expected but he doesn't take unnecessary risks. So far so good, hopefully he'll keep it up. I'm desperate to be proven wrong about him and I like what I've seen so far.
 
marjen said:
But both Schweinsteiger and Martinez have got drive, ability to go past players, great feet and a very good passing range plus they both excel at quick one touch passing.

In short they're kind of different players, even allowing for the fact that they also offer a physical presence. I don't think Carrick/Fellaini's comparable at all, good players as they might be.
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But neither of those players are used in the Bayern team to drive forward or to take players on, are they? They have quick passing, but so do Carrick (especially) and Fellaini. Again, I'm not saying as a pair they are as good as the Bayern two, just that they can do a similar job for us in freeing our attacking players. Cleverley is too lightweight to do that and also wanders out of position, Fellaini gives us the extra composure and solidity to become a better team.
 
He grew into the match well, we looked very solid in the middle and he covered space well when they were on the counterattack. Once he settles down sure we'll see him express himself more but definitely doesn't look phased.
 
The Neviller said:
He's still a big microphone headed feck.
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Hopefully that will never change!

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Thought he passed the ball mainly aimlessly and pointlessly for 45 minutes. Took risks that showed no reward despite getting in the odd lunge from a Leverkusen side who looked way off European pace. Really looking for things to be positive about since match day thread ban, but this isn't the kind of modern CM you need to progress amongst the European elite. £23m was too much, £27.5m was extortionate. He can play a big role in the league and he'll probably be a decent buy in the long term, because we won't buy a CM that can run and pass anytime soon.

Someone like Herrera has all his technical skills (in abundance) and doesn't lack too much physically. He also battles properly, harries quicker and is slightly younger. I hope we go back in for him
 
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