Playing CB's at the RB position

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
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The old fashioned scenario of playing a "defender" in the left or right back position for me now is becoming outdated.

Sure we may have athletic players who can play there, but being comfortable on the ball and in tight spaces is so much more important in the modern game IMO.

With Rafael being injured recently, it has shown just how badly we have missed him.

The passing stats clearly show that we use the RB as a big outlet when building up our play from the back, and I just feel that Smalling / Jones are not comfortable enough to play in that position against the big teams.

Against Liverpool we struggled to create anything until the point that Valencia was put to RB and Nani put to right wing. Same again against City, they were very happy to let Smalling have the ball as he is basically toothless in an attacking sense.

I personally do not feel the defensive bonus given by playing a CB there is outweighing the negative we get when attacking down the wings. Valencia when used there has the pace/strength and concentration required to act as a decent cover.

Luckily for us Rafael is back in training and should be match fit again soon, but either Fabio or Valencia should be trusted to play in these positions, as otherwise it puts us on a massive negative when trying to attack.
 
It doesn't serve us well from the attack point of view, but it's also annoying that Smalling and Jones have potential to be excellent centre backs, but don't look likely of getting many chances there.
 
If we had someone in midfield like Scholes or Fabregas who could create it would not be such a problem. Yesterday our entire line up was work rate > creativity and that is why CB playing at RB is more of an issue.

We will continue to play CBs at RB to give them games and deal with aerial threats. Annoyingly enough, we had good aerial presence yesterday (Rio Vidic Smalling Fellaini Welbeck Carrick Valencia) and still managed to lose that second goal.
 
Liverpool had the same issue against Southampton, they had centre-backs all over the back four and it showed.

It's not something we should do regularly, I agree that Fabio and probably Valencia are better options for most games.
 
Because we keep playing our worst wingers, we rely heavily on the fullbacks to create, meaning that we miss Rafael/Fabio at RB more than we would if we had adept wingers. Playing CBs there just means that whole flank becomes useless and devoid of any creativity. Evra has been criticised but without him almost nothing would have come from the wings, even if he was trying to force it at times.
 
It's a fecking nonsense this, was when Fergie did it, still is with Moyes and it's another one of our cowardly tactics. We do it to add "height" yet everytime we do it we still stupidly conceded from a set piece. We did at city in 2012 and Kompany scored from a header, we did it again yesterday and they scored from a corner and I'm pretty sure it's happened shitloads of other times. Admittedly Smalling wasn't awful yesterday but we still shouldn't be playing centre halves at wing back.
 
I think one of the main reasons we were using Smalling as an RB there was because we have no other RB in the squad. Fabio is there, yeah, but to play him against City - I am not so sure.
 
It should have been Valencia at right back yesterday with Nani in front of him. The only way height helps at fullback is set peices and we weren't short of height with Rio, Vidic, Carrick, Fellaini and Welbeck. Rooney's good in the air too so I don't really get it. They killed us on the wings.
 
I guess we've been doing it since O'Shea and Brown, who were never proper full backs, but could "do a job" there Both evolved into being solid choices for RB, but still lacked some attacking prowess, although O'Shea could be a fine crosser of the ball on occasion.

I can't see it being something that will stop any time soon.
 
It's so we are bigger in the box.

Still it was Smalling and Rio to blame for the 2nd goal and our most dangerous player in attack is Evra...
 
LR7 said:
Because we keep playing our worst wingers, we rely heavily on the fullbacks to create, meaning that we miss Rafael/Fabio at RB more than we would if we had adept wingers. Playing CBs there just means that whole flank becomes useless and devoid of any creativity. Evra has been criticised but without him almost nothing would have come from the wings, even if he was trying to force it at times.
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This.

Leroy The Red said:
It's a fecking nonsense this, was when Fergie did it, still is with Moyes and it's another one of our cowardly tactics. We do it to add "height" yet everytime we do it we still stupidly conceded from a set piece. We did at city in 2012 and Kompany scored from a header, we did it again yesterday and they scored from a corner and I'm pretty sure it's happened shitloads of other times. Admittedly Smalling wasn't awful yesterday but we still shouldn't be playing centre halves at wing back.
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And this.

Can't understand sacrificing attacking talent for 'stability' when we still continuously concede cheap goals.
 
Snow said:
It's so we are bigger in the box.

Still it was Smalling and Rio to blame for the 2nd goal and our most dangerous player in attack is Evra...
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I know but why? Nobody else out of our Major rivals do it.

Could you Imagine City dropping Clichy for Lescott, or Chelsea dropping Cole for Luiz? it just does not happen.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I know but why? Nobody else out of our Major rivals do it.

Could you Imagine City dropping Clichy for Lescott, or Chelsea dropping Cole for Luiz? it just does not happen.
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Not the same thing.

If you gave an example of City playing Luiz over their 2nd choice RB then you would have a point.
 
Last year Rafael consistently led the team in touch in most games. He was a huge outlet for us. His dribbling, passing and general comfort on the ball helped us out so much. He also shut up all the critics by showing that he actually a very good defender too. He can't come back soon enough. He is a beast of a player if you go by stats or performances. he is a big reason why we won the league last year.

If Rafael isn't available, I want Fabio or Valencia at RB.
 
I was pretty annoyed yesterday to see Smalling at RB again. The only attribute Smalling has when playing RB is height. Where on earth was Fabio? He offers us far more than Smalling as does Rafael.

I know Rafael has been injured but will someone please tell Moyes to stop playing CBs in R/LB spots for damage limitation and get us on the offensive.
 
Depends on the player, we got it badly wrong at the weekend - it felt like the manager didn't know who to leave out so played them all.
I actually thought Toure did ok at right back, Sakho just looked like a centre half playing in the wrong place, he hardly crossed the halfway line.
I would rather play a young up and coming player who is a proper full back than a player who is put there out of position.
It wasn't the reason we lost but it didn't help.
 
I always hate the it adds height argument when using it to defend the inclusion of center halfs at right back over Rafael or Fabio.

Gary Neville was a great right back for us and we didn't drop him out of the team to add more height and he is only an inch or 2 taller than Rafael and Fabio, who probably could leap much higher than he could. The main problem with doing this is we lose so much in attack, which has been further complicated by the fact that we haven't had good consistent wing play for well over a whole season.
 
coolredwine said:
I think one of the main reasons we were using Smalling as an RB there was because we have no other RB in the squad. Fabio is there, yeah, but to play him against City - I am not so sure.
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That's all there is to it, I'd imagine. Plus, I thought Smalling did well on Tuesday there and I prefer him to Jones at RB, even though he should be playing CB more regularly and giving Ferdinand a rest.

Hopefully this issue will disappear when Rafael is back.
 
LR7 said:
If Cole was out they would play Bertrand, not put Cahill or Luiz there.
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That's fine, but what he was comparing was us dropping Evra or Raf to play Smalling/Jones which isn't the case. We're playing them over our second choice RB who played a lot as a left back and played not a lot with us recently. The situation isn't the same at all.

I agree with the point an I'd much rather see Fabio playing but that wasn't an accurate post.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
That's fine, but what he was comparing was us dropping Evra or Raf to play Smalling/Jones which isn't the case. We're playing them over our second choice RB who played a lot as a left back and played not a lot with us recently. The situation isn't the same at all.

I agree with the point an I'd much rather see Fabio playing but that wasn't an accurate post.
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Dont make the mistake of thinking we've not done it before with Rafael because we have. We dropped him against City in 2011 in the title decider to play Jones and then city scored from a set piece. I'm sure we've done it other times too.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
That's fine, but what he was comparing was us dropping Evra or Raf to play Smalling/Jones which isn't the case. We're playing them over our second choice RB who played a lot as a left back and played not a lot with us recently. The situation isn't the same at all.

I agree with the point an I'd much rather see Fabio playing but that wasn't an accurate post.
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Yeah, the post you quoted was slightly off point but Rafael has been left out a few (not many) times for height.
The way I see it is that Bertrand, for example, doesn't play much for Chelsea but when Cole is out he gets drafted in, one of the CBs don't move to fullback. That's what Fabio is there for. He specialises in playing at both fullback positions and should be first choice cover for both Rafa and Evra. Fabio isn't inexperienced, he played last week against Palace and has played in a CL final ffs. He's not some rookie from the U21s and he gives more on the pitch than a few of the players out there seemed to the other night.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Dont make the mistake of thinking we've not done it before with Rafael because we have. We dropped him against City in 2011 in the title decider to play Jones and then city scored from a set piece. I'm sure we've done it other times too.
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2 years ago Raf wasn't the player he is today. He is the first choice now for all games big and small.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I know but why? Nobody else out of our Major rivals do it.

Could you Imagine City dropping Clichy for Lescott, or Chelsea dropping Cole for Luiz? it just does not happen.
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Liverpool does it. I also imagine it's sort of a part of the reason why Ivanovic started out at right back.
 
LR7 said:
Yeah, the post you quoted was slightly off point but Rafael has been left out a few (not many) times for height.
The way I see it is that Bertrand, for example, doesn't play much for Chelsea but when Cole is out he gets drafted in, one of the CBs don't move to fullback. That's what Fabio is there for. He specialises in playing at both fullback positions and should be first choice cover for both Rafa and Evra. Fabio isn't inexperienced, he played last week against Palace and has played in a CL final ffs. He's not some rookie from the U21s and he gives more on the pitch than a few of the players out there seemed to the other night.
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I agree with all of that. Fabio should be pushing for a first team place now rather than being left out as third choice fullback.
 
Excuse my tactical naivety, but would a 3-4-2-1 system work better when you have a surplus of CBs?
I believe this would allow for any 2 of Smalling/Jones/Evans to accompany either Rio or Vidic in a back 3, Carrick and Fellaini as CMs, 2 wingers, with Rooney and Kagawa playing behind RVP, while also pressing the opposition higher up the pitch when defending. This way they all get to play in their preferred positions.
I'm probably wide off the mark, but honest feedback would be appreciated.
 
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