We tend not to spend £27.5m on squad players. You gotta think he's intended for the first team at that price.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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I'm maintaining a healthy scepticism. If you look at the success rate of managers at any of the big clubs, he's more likely to fail than not. Discussion is part of the game.
I'm sure he intends that now. But as I alluded to, I think we might get to the point where we're genuine challengers for the CL then he'd be someone that might fall by the wayside if we could bring in a top player. That's a couple of years away, most likely. I suppose it all depends on whether he trains on.
Moyes isn't stupid. He's aware of the top players and the ones underneath. What I found odd was how when it became apparent he couldn't get a top CM this summer, he still signed Fellaini for so much money and didn't meet Herrera's release clause, whatever it took. That would have been so much more of an 'inspirational' signing for you lot, simply because it would show some level of scouting and desire to play possession football with a modern midfielder.
So it's arrogant to criticise, but not to think your heroic message board rationality will make the life of a world famous millionaire football manager easier?
Yeah, I'm not sure Fellaini would have been my pick if I was United manager, but I'm guessing with the upheaval at United: Gill, Fergie and various members of the coaching staff leaving, that he'd stick with the devil he knew. Fellaini is PL proven and seems to have a great rapport with Moyes so I'm guessing he saw it as one less issue to worry about. He's already bought into what Moyes is doing.
Yeah but seriously there are some absolute fecking muppets making really fecking stupid comments and we are 2 games in to a players Utd career and 7 or so games in to a new managers reign. Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree, some of the feckwits on here really do want these two to fail, that way they can justify their arguments. Thats the ugly truth as far as Im concerned. this forum is making RAWK look sensible sometimes.
Nothing wrong with that. The only thing I would point out is that so far he has, you know, hardly featured for us. He has started two games. He did well enough in the first and not too well in the second, which was a bit special as far as games go.
Most people who say he isn't up to scratch state this as an absolute fact. They neither consider his performances for us nor his potential future. They just state that he isn't good enough. It's a dismissal not an assessment, more often than not. And in my humble opinion where these people go wrong is the object of comparison: The question isn't whether Microphone is "United quality" (which, given what the people who use it seemingly understand by it, is not applicable to any of our midfielders bar Carrick), but rather whether he can be used for something. I think he can. That who knows how many other players, costing a tenth or whatever the hell it may be, could've been used instead is frankly somewhat irrelevant. We can't get those players in now, the window has closed, the bleedin' money has been spent. As they say: feckin' deal with it. He is a United player now and he will most likely feature quite a bit.
There's a difference between wanting something and expecting something.
Sure there is but its clear to me some of these fecktards actually want a failure.
Which ones?
There are at least plenty of fecktards who moan about failure, real or potential. Some of these may be genuine, honest pessimists for all I know. But I do suspect some are just agenda driven bellends who have been moping and moaning since Moyes was announced.
That isn't really necessary now, is it? Just because I don't rate a footballer you like. Bit childish really, for an internationally acclaimed talent spotter such as yourself.
Thanks thats very kind of you. sorry for calling you an ignorant prick ya ignorant prick
An article from the Guardian is saying that Fellaini had better stats in the derby game than Toure. Interesting how it shows that stats can be a load of bollocks, sometimes.
The pass map is more telling though..
Anyone who watched Manchester City’s demolition of Manchester United will have seen Yaya Toure rampant in the midfield, scoring in the 4-1 win while new Old Trafford man Marouane Fellaini looked all at sea.
But the statistics from the game tell a very different story.
Incredibly, the numbers appear to show that Belgian midfielder Fellaini had a better game than the Ivorian, despite the result.
Fellaini made more total passes than Toure with a more accurate success rate and also covered more ground, with far more accurate passes in the opposition half.
Toure's stats
Goals: 1
Passes: 52
Pass Accuracy: 86.5%
Accurate Opposition Half Passes: 28
Chances Created: 2
Fellaini's stats
Goals: 0
Passes: 65
Pass Accuracy: 92.3%
Accurate Opposition Half Passes: 46
Chances Created: 0
City’s midfield was much more dynamic than United’s. Comparing Toure and Fellaini, although the Ivorian had less total passes, they’re all over the pitch in different areas.
Fellaini’s pass map, meanwhile, shows the Belgian playing the same pass out to the flanks over and over again, with the centre circle almost completely devoid of short passes.
The effectiveness of this tactic was where United fell flat. Young made just nine successful passes in his 52 minutes on the pitch, with just a 50 per cent accuracy in the opposition half. He also failed to create a single chance for his side, two unsuccessful crosses being his sole contribution.
The pass map is more telling though..
You do a knockout impression of one. Is a season the correct timeframe? Are we allowed to come here in a years time and say he's shit?
I never said that at all. I said, long before Ferguson announced his retirement, that I didn't fancy Moyes ever taking us over because I didn't think he was up to it. Should I have changed my mind about that once Fergie announced his retirement? Should I have suddenly flip-flopped and said Moyes was the best man for the job, against my own opinion, purely because he was appointed? I've said he's here now and I'll happily see him given a chance and support him, in the hope that I was wrong. What exactly is wrong about that stance?
I'll choke you with a haddock, you knob jockey.Thanks thats very kind of you. sorry for calling you an ignorant prick ya ignorant prick
So essentially you've returned from your exile to preach that everyone should refrain from commenting on our first new manager in 27 years unless they have something positive to say? We also shouldn't say anything about our new £27.5m signing when he plays shit? Are we allowed to give him match ratings in the rating thread or should we censor ourselves and just leave it blank? Actually, should we even have match ratings when we lose? After all, Moyes picks the players so any rating below 5 would reflect poorly on him, and we don't want to add any undue pressure. What a message board this would be if you had your way. I can picture it now, we've just lost a big game against one of our rivals:
"I liked Moyes' suit"
"Yeah, fantastic suit, his dress sense is really improving with experience."
fecking topper. Yes, there is a camp who are overly negative about things and are waiting in the wings to pounce on any little error, but there's also a camp who believe any sort of criticism, no matter how valid, is a personal attack on David Moyes and will defend him despite what the facts say. You've actually gone one step further and said he could fail because of criticism on a message board, which is frankly so deluded even Glaston would have his work cut out to top it. He's the manager of Manchester United, he's going to be criticised, and by far more prominent figures than a few numpties on the internet, who despite what you may think have absolutely no relevance to his success. This post, along with your comments about the reasons Moyes should keep his job should we finish 5th, just make me think you're trying to prove what a fantastic rational supporter you are, but it's almost like you're expecting him to fail and are excusing that failure in advance. The irony is it's actually quite insulting towards Moyes, I'm sure if you asked him he'd rightly consider finishing 5th a total disaster, both him and this squad are good enough to win the league.
P.S. Welcome back.
No I'm not. I want neither to fail, but I'm certainly concerned that Fellaini will. I just don't see a United player in there. Moyes I'm not sure about. I said long before retirement was even considered for Fergie that I wouldn't want him in the job, but now he's here I hope I'm wrong about him.
Why would I want anyone at United to fail? That would be a bit daft for someone who loves the club.
Simple fact is, these are two guys I wasn't keen on before they were ever linked with our club. Should I suddenly change my opinion and think they're the best men for the jobs they've been given?
I just don't rate him, its that simple. And I don't not rate him because Moyes signed him, I just don't rate him. If its cnutish to not rate a player when he doesn't play for United, and not flip-flop on that opinion once he signs for United, then so be it.
I'd prefer they'd be a bit more reasonable about it all to begin with instead of writing them off.
Using my opinion of Moyes as some sort of example was a bit pathetic. My opinion wasn't some knee jerk opinion based on not agreeing with an appointment, it was held, and stated on here, before Ferguson retiring was even a possibility.
It's obviously ridiculous to write off Moyes or Fellaini this early into their time here. That said, if people have had pre-existing opinions of them since before they came to United you can't expect them to suddenly reverse them just because they've signed for the club. If they did they'd be massive hypocrites, as I reckon quite a few of the people currently backing Fellaini and Moyes are. For example, there's no way the majority of the caf would've picked Moyes as the man to replace SAF this time last year. So why shouldn't they still have doubts? As long as they're making reasonable points and not starting "Moyes is shit" threads, what's the problem?
The "people want Moyes and Fellaini to fail" argument is one of the most retarded I've seen on the caf. Most of us have been United fans since we were kids, why the hell would we want them to fail? People making that argument can't seem to understand that loving the club doesn't automatically mean you can't criticise decisions or have doubts about some aspects of what they're doing. If you mindlessly back everything the club does you're a moron, plain and simple.
Almost everyone I saw expressing doubts when Moyes was appointed or when Fellaini was signed finished by saying "I hope he proves me wrong". Nobody wants them to fail, that doesn't mean they have to suddenly become their cheerleaders.
The "people want Moyes and Fellaini to fail" argument is one of the most retarded I've seen on the caf. Most of us have been United fans since we were kids, why the hell would we want them to fail? People making that argument can't seem to understand that loving the club doesn't automatically mean you can't criticise decisions or have doubts about some aspects of what they're doing. If you mindlessly back everything the club does you're a moron, plain and simple.
Almost everyone I saw expressing doubts when Moyes was appointed or when Fellaini was signed finished by saying "I hope he proves me wrong". Nobody wants them to fail, that doesn't mean they have to suddenly become their cheerleaders.
He was horrible against city. Really awful performance. Seemed late to every loose ball, poor in possession and generally a bit lost. Needs to do better.
A few people are saying this. I don't agree. Moyes wouldn't have been my pick. Now I realise Fergie has a different opinion that has made me immediately doubt my judgement but doesn't change the fact that he wasn't the manager that I, personally, wanted in charge. Obviously, I could be completely wrong and I accept this. I'm going to reserve judgement on Moyes and give him the benefit of any doubt. How anyone could perceive this as hypocrisy is a fecking mystery to me.
I also disagree with mockney's typically melodramatic interpretation of my posts in this thread that I'm banning any criticism. That's an odd accusation when my very first post in the thread contained criticism of both Moyes and Fellaini. Nothing wrong with criticism. Be nice if people tried to understand why bad calls might have been made and/or try to avoid declaring that a player is simply "shit" or destined to fail after 3 frigging appearances for the club. Criticism is fine, knee jerk conclusions - based on very little evidence - are annoying.
For me, the worst part was when we seemed to find something hysterical with Toure from a defensive corner. At 4-0 down.
Fellaini - master of the sideways pass.
Not impressed so far. But still early days. Problem is that the weaknesses he has are none that will go away. He is very immobile and lacks serious pace. The other thing he's a bit shit at so far will come with experience: Positioning.
That's the best you can come up with? Seriously?
Very poor effort, even by your own low standards. Has Dumbstar hacked your account?
I felt lethargic writing it as well.
But feck me, that map of passes deserved some sort of effort.
If we wanted a headless chicken... sure.
In a thread where people are lamenting Fellaini's positional play, Dembele would almost certainly not be the answer.
It's not necessarily cnutish. If one never gets off said player's case and always makes a point of mentioning that he is shite - well, then it is a bit cnutish. I'm not saying you will do that, by the way. But I'm fairly sure some will.
You don't rate him, fair enough. What does that imply, though? That he doesn't bring a single thing to the table and that buying him was a complete waste of money? A perfectly bizarre move? See, for me he is a decent enough acquisition, though obviously one we overpaid for. Decent enough, not great. I think we are stronger all in all for adding him to the the team. I do not regard him as the final piece of the puzzle or the solution to our midfield problem. I just think he offers something Cleverley and Anderson don't and thus adds a dimension that wasn't there before. If it's denying the latter which is implied when people claim not to rate him - as you do - then I'm frankly surprised by this.
Fellaini is not good enough for United. Fair enough statement if one means to imply that he isn't the standard of player we should sport as a starting man, given that we have ambitions to be the very best, etc. Fellaini is shite and I don't rate him at all. Hyperbolic statement for one. And if one by this means to imply that he doesn't constitute any improvement, not in the slightest, not even potentially - well, then I have to conclude it is positively wrong.
Why even respond to such silly accusations? Expressing any concerns about either Moyes or Fellaini equals wanting them both to fail. It's actually pathetic.
Its spread it wide to ineffective wingers, as a tactic there is nothing wrong with that but not when your wide men are in poor form or are just poor players like Young.
Expressing concerns ain't what winds people up. It's a certain kind of "I told you so" attitude which is both premature and petulant that gets to me personally. "See, Fellaini can't outmuscle Yaya, they said he would and now look at the state of us! Moyes clearly bought him as a target man and now it all makes sense, he really wants to turn us into Everton, it's all so very embarrassing, boo-hoo..."
It's that sort of thing. Not expressing concerns. There are reasons to be concerned, always. We aren't in a perfect state.
So those thinking that Fellaini might not actually provide the "steel" people claimed he would want him and Moyes to fail? Where does that logic come from?
He does look an Everton type of player.
Fellaini's positioning on Sunday was not like someone who is an adept CM. His positioning is what made him largely ineffective and he showed a tendency to follow the ball rather than stay with his man. My biggest criticism of Anderson is exactly that, his positioning when we lose the ball, and on Sunday Fellaini seemed no better in that respect imo. He was passed around fairly easily, and his solitary tackle (one less than Cleverley) and zero interceptions showed that he didn't manage to break up the play at all.
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