Well I think we can all agree that we hope Moyes gets over his stage fright and uses that squad properly!
Moyes So Far!
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Well I think we can all agree that we hope Moyes gets over his stage fright and uses that squad properly!
I was more so saying that it would be a crime to finish outside the top 4 with that squad, just like it'd be seen as mental if Pellegrini finished outside the top 4 with his too.
I think people understand that Lambo. Change after Sir Alex was always going to be rough and people arent expecting us to walk the league. But with the squad we have, we really have to finish in the top 4. Even if we dont though, am of the firm opinion that he must be given another season anyways and I think he will.
Depends on what you mean by backing. If you talk about people willing to give him time and accepting that change after Sir Alex was always going to be rough, Yes. But If you're talking about people singing praises of Moyes or expressing 0 doubts about him being up for the job, No but that's to be expected as a huge part of the forum didnt want him in charge in the first place so people would just be toeing the party line if they suddenly changed tune and let go of all doubts.
Thankfully, it doesnt matter anyways as long as the matchgoers and the owners support him which am sure they will.
For losing the derby? Its to be expected and I'd be amazed if he didnt. He's the manager and we were piss poor. If Sir Alex can come under fire, anyone can and rightly so. It isnt the same as wanting to get rid of him though or not backing the new manager.
precisely. I have been unhappy with Moyes team selections and tactics too. But to ask for his head if he finishes outside the top 4??? bloody hell. In two years we can see what he is up to. Ok so if we do end up getting rid of him, who do we pick? how long do we give him? This is exactly the City and Chelsea nonsense. They do this because they are not proper clubs...
Yep, we really should. But it's going to be mayhem on here if we don't.
I agree with all this.
Personally I wasn't against him being given the job, I preferred him over Maureen, but I am a little shocked at how he's started. Win, lose or draw I thought he'd at least appear stronger than he has. But, hey, it's one of the biggest jobs in football so let's see...
Moyes may not have said it but it's what some people in here are saying. In their attempts at coming across like brilliant supporters who are above caring about trivial things like being successful, they're actually doing David Moyes a massive disservice. Not one of them would even be contemplating us finishing outside the top four with this squad if SAF was still in charge, so unless they think David Moyes is a total moron, why are they now saying that it's not only conceivable, but perfectly acceptable? It's quite frankly bizarre. We've gone from "David Moyes shouldn't be sacked if we don't win the league", to "David Moyes shouldn't be sacked if we don't win a trophy" to "David Moyes shouldn't be sacked if we don't finish top four" to "David Moyes should be given three years no matter what", why can't we just wait and see what happens and form our opinions as we witness it instead of people making these stupid blanket statements in an effort to be crowned redcafe's best supporter? Reading half these posts makes me want to put a pair of undies over my head, a pencil up my nose and shout "Wibble" really, really loud.
Yeah, you're making stuff up now.
Big difference between "perfectly acceptable" and "not a sackable offence"
I don't think one person has said finishing fifth would not be an under-perfomance and extremely dissapointing. What a lot of people disagree with is the widespread idea on here that it would or should be a sackable offence.
Pellegrini or Mourinho would be sacked if they finished 5th. I guess we're a "morally better" club, but 5th with this squad would be a fecking travesty for any manager.
Why can't the 'Moyes is rubbish' brigade do the same thing?
A lot of people on here criminally underrated SAF, and seem to believe football is all about the talent of the players and the squad, which seems unbelievable considering its United, who have had the best manager in the world for 27 years.
Coming 5th would be an absolute fecking tragedy with this squad, though it will never happen.
My opinion on Moyes hasn't changed since hes become manager - he was the best man for the job then and still is IMO, but it would be hard to criticise the Glazers if they sacked Moyes for finishing 5th. It would be a disaster with this team.
My opinion on Moyes hasn't changed since hes become manager - he was the best man for the job then and still is IMO, but it would be hard to criticise the Glazers if they sacked Moyes for finishing 5th. It would be a disaster with this team.
'disaster' 'tragedy' 'travesty'
I love the hyperbole of the internet/modern day football fan.
I love the hyperbole of the internet/modern day football fan.
How would you describe it?
Armageddapocalypse.
Bollocks to morally better. We can't afford that sort of lunatic managerial merry go round. Very very few clubs can.
Armoyesageddon.
Loads do though, even shite ones with worse finances than ours.
They're idiots Steve, that's why, but the "pro Moyes Brigade" in here are actually saying the same thing as the "Moyes is rubbish brigdade", with him in charge we might drop out of the top four. I've tried looking at it rationally, and unless we have some sort of injury crisis, I just don't see the logic in that point of view. Has one defeat to City turned everyone into Glaston?
Not the defeat for me, it's the manner of how the performances and other things have gone....That and what Andy Mitten said about there being some unhappiness among the squad already...Thats what worries me personally...1 defeat to City doesn't
Yeah I agree, Moyes was the right man and should be given time but there are limits and you'd have to question if he finishes outside the top 4. Either he didn't do enough in the summer to identify weaknesses in the team, or he's not got the best out of the players or more likely to finish fifth, both.
Not winning the title in his first year is fine, of course we'd love it but you can acknowledge that it will take time to adapt for everyone and our rivals have strengthened. But to go from 1st with a massive gap, I mean it should have been even bigger, we really switched off after the Villa game, to outside the top 4 would be clearly a massive underachievement.
To be fair I don't think I've seen anyone say that, pretty much everyone has said it will never happen and is ridiculous.
The whole discussion is weird, not sure how it came about.
Fear...
Fergie gone, replaced by Moyes, who is (and no disrespect) a trophyless manager who hasn't managed a top team anywhere in the world. Understandable people getting carried away with different scenarios. It's human nature of course
What did Mitten say? I'm guessing it's the players on the fringes who haven't been playing? If so that's perfectly natural and they'll have to prove Moyes wrong when they inevitably get their chance in the coming weeks.
It's interesting that a lot of the people demanding the highest standards of Moyes also seemed to be the most adamant he wasn't good enough to take Fergie's job. Don't you see the inconsistency in demanding he closely matches the achievements of a manager who you think is vastly superior to him or face being sacked at the end of a season?
I don't think Moyes is a patch on Fergie as a manager (is anyone?) but I hope he can take on the challenge and improve to a point where he'll eventually be talked about in the same breath. I certainly don't think he's good enough to do this immediately. Will take at least another year or two. Probably longer.
I don't think Moyes is a patch on Fergie as a manager (is anyone?) but I hope he can take on the challenge and improve to a point where he'll eventually be talked about in the same breath. I certainly don't think he's good enough to do this immediately. Will take at least another year or two. Probably longer.
This isn't about some Top Red notion that a true United fan is one who will actually rejoice if we finish 10th and never go for a marquee signing ever again. It's about the simple concept of actually being patient and thinking long-term. It's what the club have gone for with this appointment - I like it, I think it suits us very well, I'd even permit myself to say it makes us stand out among our rivals who are obviously not too concerned with long-term stability. Morally better, as Cina mentioned? No, what goes for them goes for us too: We're in it to win it, as often as possible. The question is how.
What I would like to see is some actual patience and willingness to look at the long-term interests. Too many on here say "I'm all for giving Moyes time" only to add "but he better get everything sorted RIGHT NOW or else..." in the next sentence. Not literally, of course. But that is the sense I get.
We have a great squad - but a best XI with question marks over it. That's the truth. Fergie was a genius. He managed that squad like none other could. To a different manager the second part - having a best XI with question marks over it - could prove a far greater problem than it was to Fergie. That's just one of the possible snags Moyes now faces. Like I said before, I'm confident we'll finish in the top four. And I think Moyes will assemble an XI that turns out to be pretty good. But we shouldn't kid ourselves. We have a pack of wolves snapping at our heels - nothing should be taken for granted here. It's Moyes' first season - he is just getting started. Perhaps we should just accept that we are - in fact - in the greatest transition we've faced for years and years. To me it seems many are willing to admit this as an abstract concept of sorts - but not as a matter of reality when it actually makes itself known in terms of what the new man does and says.
What I would like to see is some actual patience and willingness to look at the long-term interests. Too many on here say "I'm all for giving Moyes time" only to add "but he better get everything sorted RIGHT NOW or else..." in the next sentence. Not literally, of course. But that is the sense I get.
We have a great squad - but a best XI with question marks over it. That's the truth. Fergie was a genius. He managed that squad like none other could. To a different manager the second part - having a best XI with question marks over it - could prove a far greater problem than it was to Fergie. That's just one of the possible snags Moyes now faces. Like I said before, I'm confident we'll finish in the top four. And I think Moyes will assemble an XI that turns out to be pretty good. But we shouldn't kid ourselves. We have a pack of wolves snapping at our heels - nothing should be taken for granted here. It's Moyes' first season - he is just getting started. Perhaps we should just accept that we are - in fact - in the greatest transition we've faced for years and years. To me it seems many are willing to admit this as an abstract concept of sorts - but not as a matter of reality when it actually makes itself known in terms of what the new man does and says.
I said during the pre season games that those who posted repeated tongue in cheek Moyes outs, mocking those who would call for his head after any loss would be those who really would call for his head when he goes through a rough patch. Im sure plenty bleated about giving him time when he was appointed not truly believing there might be a struggle, and when the time comes they will turn against him.
However this season ends, regardless of where you think the squad SHOULD end up, Moyes should remain, and Im not saying that just as someone who isn;t a United fan, Im saying it as someone who can see United will become a merry go round if they sack Moyes at the first attempt.
However this season ends, regardless of where you think the squad SHOULD end up, Moyes should remain, and Im not saying that just as someone who isn;t a United fan, Im saying it as someone who can see United will become a merry go round if they sack Moyes at the first attempt.
If this is aimed at me then I always wanted Moyes to be manager, my problem is I think you're doing both him and our squad a disservice with your talk about top four. I also haven't seen anyone on here demanding that he win the title, most people seem perfectly happy with a top four finish, so unless finishing above Tottenham is demanding the highest standards then that simply isn't true. I mean Tottenham Pogue, Tottenham.
He said their was a lot of anger and unhappiness at the club..When asked to elaborate, he wouldn't..I'm not too sure how to look upon it to be honest mate. Could be the fringe players
Not aimed at anyone who always wanted Moyes in charge. Although, if that's the cohort you belong to surely the last thing you want is a hasty dismissal, even if his debut season is a relative disaster?
Where/when did he say this? Nothing on his twitter.
If he's talking about the aftermath of the city game, I should bloody hope there's a lot of anger and unhappiness at the club!
Was a few days after the window. He was on newstalk at around half 9 one of the nights during that week
Why would anyone be happy if we, as defending champions, scraped into the top four?
This lowering of standards among fans is worrying. Getting fourth would be an absolutely disastrous season.
I agree with everything you say.. but the discussion is about coming 5th for feck sake.
I'm all for patience with Moyes and was advocating hiring him before Ferguson retired, so very firmly in the pro-Moyes camp - but there reaches a point where everything you just said doesn't apply and it ceases to be a case of someone needing time and becomes one of someone simply not being up to the job. Coming 5th with this team would be firmly in the latter category.
It will never happen because Moyes is a very good manager, so this whole thing is completely hypothetical (and pointless).
That long ago, then? Well, everything's going splendidly now, so there should be no cause for concern...
Chapter One: Anger and Confusion.
Chapter Two: Anger and Unhappiness.
What next? A win tonight would do nicely.
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