If we assume that we'll make 2 big signings next summer and one per year there after that will mean that in three years we will have signed 4 more big players. Add that to the aging stars and the then blooded youngsters I don't think worrying about the squads age profile is much time well spent.
Moyes So Far!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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feck me are we actually discussing finishing outside the top four? I know it's not out of the equation... but good god this is fairly depressing.
We're all down after being spanked by City, but we need to kick on now and start to be a bit more positive.
We seriously need this win tonight.
We're all down after being spanked by City, but we need to kick on now and start to be a bit more positive.
We seriously need this win tonight.
I can't understand how some of you can talk about a squad that won the league only last season finishing fourth and somehow that not reflecting on the manager. They had the whole summer to identify realistic targets, and he was crowing about how good the squad was over the whole summer - 4 games in and you want to start moaning about lack of transfers? It's your fault!
Finishing fourth would be a pretty good reason for a major inquest, including the sacking of the manager. This is United, stop being so small-time.
Finishing fourth would be a pretty good reason for a major inquest, including the sacking of the manager. This is United, stop being so small-time.
think we will make two big signings this January.
Typical Pogue. So I disagreed with Fergies decisions at times, who didn't? But go on find one post where I asked for Fergie to leave. Sorry but I don't have your reverential outlook.
We don't have any divine right to a top 4 finish. As any observer has seen, the team, despite winning the league last year, has obvious deficiencies.
We may have the deepest squad, but not the best first team currently. There is probably a 2 year period of transition for Moyes to create his own team and in that period the success many of us have grown accustomed to may not be be maintained. The owners for their faults seem to understand that, hence the 6 year contract. There won't be any snap decisions made re a sacking, like there wasn't when SAF started.
Would surprise me if we make any more than one in January. No value in the market you see.
Exactly. Spot on.
Would surprise me if we make any more than one in January. No value in the market you see.
was thinking of Herera and that fullback from Real.
I'm really disappointed with Moyes' decision not to bring on a substitute at the beginning of the second half against Manchester City. At times, City's midfield was disorganised, and not for the first time this season - it's a common theme in the Fernandinho/Touré partnership. There were several moments where Rooney and Welbeck found a lot of space between the lines - and with the exception of two moments, where we looked to attack centrally, we looked for options down the wings. In the image below, Rooney receives ball in an intelligent position. City's block is not compact, but we end up playing the ball down the left wing. Forget needing to bulk up... Kagawa would have been a perfect fit. Moyes needs to add more variety in our transition attacks because at the moment, we look clueless down the wings.
The main issue was not dealing with Nasri, who played as an interior. Pellegrini's 4-2-2-2, similar to what Manchester City are currently playing, relies a lot on the interiores to move centrally and not only create a creative spine in the centre of midfield, but it is also to ensure that the there is a numerical advantage in the middle. Add to that Aguero, who dropped off, and you're in danger. Nasri moves inside and drags Fellaini with him. City form a diamond in midfield: 4 v 3, with Toure not being marked. I would genuinely want to know why Moyes didn't play it safe and opt for a 4-3-3. Fellaini received a lot of criticism for his performance and rightly so because he looked languid, but the tactics were ultimately to blame. Even if Cleverley started, we would have still experienced the same problem because this is Pellegrini's philosophy, which is not only much more attractive than Mancini's, but it represents how great a tactician he is.
The main issue was not dealing with Nasri, who played as an interior. Pellegrini's 4-2-2-2, similar to what Manchester City are currently playing, relies a lot on the interiores to move centrally and not only create a creative spine in the centre of midfield, but it is also to ensure that the there is a numerical advantage in the middle. Add to that Aguero, who dropped off, and you're in danger. Nasri moves inside and drags Fellaini with him. City form a diamond in midfield: 4 v 3, with Toure not being marked. I would genuinely want to know why Moyes didn't play it safe and opt for a 4-3-3. Fellaini received a lot of criticism for his performance and rightly so because he looked languid, but the tactics were ultimately to blame. Even if Cleverley started, we would have still experienced the same problem because this is Pellegrini's philosophy, which is not only much more attractive than Mancini's, but it represents how great a tactician he is.
True, there are deficiencies in our squad, certainly enough to prevent us winning the title now that SAF is gone. That said, there's no way we should finish outside the top four, that would be an absolute disaster. Even outside the top three would be extremely disappointing, we're still Manchester United, we shouldn't implode within the space of one season.
Exactly my thoughts too.
There's some major overreactions going on in this thread. Some absolutely shocking posts.
This is bullshit, to be honest. Yes, the team has deficiencies, but it's not like it needs to be gutted. We've got a really young squad with a lot of experience and quality which needed one or two signings for the first team. Moyes had ample time and money over the summer to make any moves he might have wanted. Even considering we didn't sign two players, finishing fourth with this squad is pretty much unacceptable. De Gea, Rafa, Smalling, Rio, Evans, Vida, Evra, Fabio, Anderson, Valencia, Kagawa, Carrick, Nani, Fellaini, Rooney, Van Persie, Zaha, Adnad, Young, Hernandez, Welbeck - that's a very good squad. If he can't make the most of this squad, then it's on him.
There's no point moaning about needing to sign players when we're just 4 games in and the transfer window closed a few weeks ago. He had his chance to sign players (and presumably he was being backed financially), now he has to get on with it.
I would be happy to give the manager at least two seasons to transition. That's why he has a 6 year contract. With the fixtures we had so far, if we got draws v City and Liverpool, most would have been happy. We are really talking 2 points short of what would have been a very acceptable start. The fact we are 5 points off the top as it is, is not a disaster.
In hindsight we should've gone for a 4-3-3, sure. Why didn't we? Probably because with the players who were going to start this is less tried and trusted than what Moyes did go for: A set-up much like SAF would've used.
Your points about Pellegrini are good. Sadly, I nearly said - the bloke is no mug.
Subs, though - yes, I would have thrown someone on. What Moyes said at the presser reads like he felt we gained some sort of control after Cleverley came on (and City cooled off a bit), but that City on the night were just too much for us and that he'd rather keep that semblance of control, avoiding further humiliation, than making changes offensively which could've gone either way. It's not a very offensive attitude, literally speaking - but understandable under the circumstances.
That's me convinced. Unless maybe we could list the entire squad of every other team in the league and say the same thing?
As I posted a while back, you'd need to be living under a rock to miss the very obvious reasons why the top four slots are more hotly contested than at any time in the previous decade, possibly longer.
As for Moyes having the opportunity to sign players to redress gaps in the squad. Well no shit, sherlock. Unless he is personally held 100% accountable by the powers that be at United for failing to secure the targets he'd identified (which is unlikely, seeing as they understand how football clubs are run, due to... running a football club) then this will be considered as mitigating circumstances at the end of the season.
Taking all of that into account, it's nothing more than arrogance to assume we have a God-given right to a top four finish under a new manager, with much less investment than all our rivals at a time when the top four is a bigger challenge than it's been in a long long time.
well exactly.
No it wasn't. Finishingfourth last season would have been unacceptable as the quality of the Premiership wasn't high, as evidenced by the performances by many in Europe. Moyes decided to have a look at the current squad and try to add one or two high quality players to it that would immediately impact the first team, that failed to happen so he's got last year's squad with Fellaini (with no preseason to bed in) and Zaha.
All the other top teams have strengthened considerably (bar Arsenal) so it's going to be a far more competitive league and as he said it's a period of transition as some of the older players are on the wane and there will be current squad members that he doesn't think are good enough or don't fit the style of play he likes (like Mata at Chelsea).
The whole 'it's a disaster of we finish fifth' 'Moyes should be sacked if we do' smacks of a lack of understanding and a feeling of entitlement that I feel is undermining his reign already. Replacing SAF is the hardest job in football. The board and, hopefully, the majority of fans, will judge him after 2/3 seasons, not at the end of one, regardless of where we finish.
We don't have a God given right to anything, but it'd take a monumental feck up for this squad to finish 4th. Never mind outside the top four.
If Rooney, RVP, Vidic, Carrick and Rafael were all ruled out for the season, well then I'd definitely see it happening, but it's not happening otherwise IMO.
This is important. But some people just won't give Moyes the benefit of the doubt - at all. There is no patience with anything he does in practice - in theory, yes, but in reality there's just negativity, basically.
We don't know what went on this summer. Someone didn't do a grand job of securing the targets Moyes had identified, that's all we know. The man knows we're a couple of players short as far as the XI goes. Who here would disagree with that? He further states explicitly that the squad is fine - the squad is not the issue, he says. Someone tell me what's wrong with his statement? That he makes it in the first place? Should've kept it in-house? Just stated that everything is fine and he is pleased with every aspect of the team? I'm sure certain people on here would've reacted very well to that.
Oh, and there is this: "Be prepared for hard times, feckers - the team is a shambles and we will likely not make 4th." This...is not what Moyes said.
Our squad was substantially better than any other in the league last season, and it needed far less investment. So how much the other teams spend isn't particularly relevant. We still have two world class strikers, one of the best goalkeepers in the league and one of the best sets of defenders in the league. The most significant changes made by the top clubs weren't player acquisitions, it was the the appointment of new coaches.
Last season, a top class coach managed to take our squad and win the league with it. No one is expecting him to do what SAF did, but he has to at least compete for the title considering the players he has at his disposal. I also don't buy this idea that the club appointed a manager and didn't give him any input on which players they were going for, when or how. He doesn't take all of the blame for missing out on players, but he has to take some of it.
Finally, you might call it arrogance, but similarly, you are displaying a rather perverse faux-humility that is ill-placed. You support one of the biggest sporting institutions on the planet - being comfortable with mediocrity is not a luxury you have.
And after all that emphasis Fergie made about backing the new manager and giving him full support, it's taken what, a few weeks?
feck me, finishing fifth is "'mediocrity"? That doesn't even make sense at a mathematical level.
Post of the week.
fecking idiots that misinterpret obvious shit do my nut too.
We arent a typical club though Pogue and neither is our squad. Finishing fifth with this squad of players would be poor let alone mediocre.
Andrew~ lives on his own planet. Best to be ignored, he wants everything the easy way and doesn't care how much of a twat he looks.
Is it just me that thought we got a slight bit fortunate last season in the poor form of other teams? I'd say, at best, we were just the best of a bad bunch. I'm certainly not using our success as a benchmark for how good this squad is.
I havent followed the thread completely but from what I gather, people are talking about a hypothetical scenario where we finish outside the top 4, even then the majority say it'd be a poor season but he should still be given another year. Whats the " it's taken what, a few weeks?" you're talking about?
But is it not true that the teams around us have greatly improved whilst we are in the biggest transition we've had for what, 27 years?
Its a poor excuse because it wasnt as if we were at our best either. Our wingers were as poor as we've seen them for a long time and considering how important a part they play in our system, its for certain that it wasnt the best United team last year either.
It would not be a poor or mediocre achievement. It would, however, be a disappointing season. Which is an emotion anyone old enough to remember was strongly associated with Fergie's first few (not just first one) seasons in charge. Fans back then knew what it was like to see your club go through a period of mediocrity. Believe it or not, that club was the same behemoth we support today. With a far greater advantage over it's rivals in terms of financial muscle too. Thank god the owners were more patient with fergie than so many of our fans are willing to be with his successor.
It is but is the transition so bad that we should finish outside the top 4 with the squad we have?
You've not noticed the slating that Moyes has took already?
Except Moyes has a squad that just won the title at his disposal, Fergie had a fairly average one.
Yup. Which is why I sincerely hope Moyes will take a lot less time than Fergie did to win his first league title!
I'm not saying we should. But what we should do is accept this might take some time, and whilst finishing outside the top four would be deemed as shocking considering the last 20 years, it's something we will have to deal with at the time.
Personally, I don't think Moyes has shown any balls so far, but at the same time we need to accept that SAF is gone and if we want that level ever again we have to be prepared to be patient in the rebuilding.
Do you think Moyes has 100% backing from RedCafe, then?
I wasnt old enough back then but was the squad Sir Alex inherited the best (top 3 if you want) in the league? Were we the reigning champions winning at a canter the previous season?
I believe Moyes will be given atleast 2 seasons regardless of where we finish this year but there's no masking the fact that it'd be a poor season if we finished outside the top 4 and will obviously put the manager into immense scrutiny.
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