Shinji Kagawa

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Sphaero said:
Makes you wonder, how the feck he could instantly excell in Klopp´s system, which is built around movement, pace and dynamic (all aspects to a way greater extend than at United), when he is slow and ponderous in possesion. The little kitten Shinji had also to be extremely lucky, that he was left alone for two whole years in the Bundesliga and is now eaten alive by the bullies of the PL, who are of course all meaner and scarier.

Seriously.... Kagawa did not come directly from Japan to your side or from South Ameria or even a south European league, which are defined more by technique. He came from the league, which is the closest thing to the EPL in terms of physicality, a league that was for a very long time more defined by fighting and work rate than technical beauty. A league, which still has teams like Braunschweig, Augsburg, Nürnberg, Stuttgart or Hanover, which will fight technically superior teams with grit and aggression to keep a point.

The excuse of missing match fitness also gets silly by now. Three questions pop instantly in my head when I hear that:

1. What the hell are they doing in training? Kagawa is a player, who has an extremely healthy and disciplined life style and aced every fitness test at United and Dortmund. Unless he has more serious health issues (which should be known by now) I have a hard time believing, that he is still not in shape to even come from the bench.

2. How can he fly all over the globe and play two nearly full matches with Japan in a week?

3. Why was he on the bench today, when he is not match fit? If he could not even make a short stint in the game, he was just blocking the seat for a more fit player.


Lets recap Kagawa´s season until now:

He did not play a single minute in the league and out of seven competive matches he started in one and had one short stint from the bench. Even taking all possible excuses into account, this is not a whole lot.

I just believe one thing. If Moyes can not give Kagawa any serious perspective until the end of the year, the likelyhood of him being gone in the winter will be very high. Not with his former club also challenging for titles, playing CL and actively keeping the door open for a return.
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To be honest, if we're hardly going to use him under moyes I hope he does leave, preferably to Dortmund. He's a fantastic player and great to watch and deserves to be playing week in week out for a top team, not sitting on the bench behind players like Ashley young. We're just completely wasting him so far, and hopefully that changes because he has so much potential and can become one of our best players.
 
If he doesn't start against Liverpool, it will be hard to take this new management seriously.
 
manusteve said:
That's crap.
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No it isn't. Against Leverkusen he was falling over the ball and getting dispossessed at walking speed by a thoroughly average set of players. City, playing at the top of their game with intensity, would have been a nightmare for him if he'd have come in anything like he did against Leverkusen. It just wasn't worth the risk.

I also think Young is not good enough to be here, just like everyone else seems to. I do understand why he was started today, though. I said for the last few days that he'd get the nod ahead of Kagawa.
 
I have this horrible feeling we'll use him pretty much like we did last season , then sell him back to Dortmund in the Summer....where he'll obviously go onto look like the class player we thought he was in the first place.
 
We have 5 easier league games now. Let's see if moyes really does trust the more technical players like nani and kagawa or if he wants to stuck with Valencia and young.

Also, if I was januzaj I'd be confident of doing better than those two currently are so he and Zaha should also be featuring now.
 
I hope that he starts against liverpool, with RVP likely still out, play him in the center behind Rooney with Nani out wide. We should at least have a decent attacking threat compared to young out wide at least.
 
Sam said:
I have this horrible feeling we'll use him pretty much like we did last season , then sell him back to Dortmund in the Summer....where he'll obviously go onto look like the class player we thought he was in the first place.
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Agreed. He's way to good to waste the early stages of his career, when he needs to be playing games, on the bench. As hard as it is to admit, i'd rather see him playing at another team, if we don't give him a proper chance. Same goes for Hernandez.

All the excuses about not being match fit make no sense now. When you're 4-0 down, with nothing to play for, surely these are the times to bring on other players to get some fitness in.
 
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http://www.prideofalleurope.com/2013/09/rooney-and-kagawa-a-solution-to-uniteds-creativity-problem/

Following the two dismal, insipid defeats to Liverpool and Man City, it became apparent that, apart from a frustratingly passive approach to reclaiming possession, a lack of creativity was evident in United’s performances. The passing was stale and predictable, the movement too pedestrian, the formation far too rigid.

It is, perhaps, not as significant problem as is being portrayed – 86 goals last season hardly supports the idea United cannot create chances – but this season, in the big games at least, United’s goal-threat has been minimal.

The obvious positive has been Rooney; despite the incessant speculation surrounding him all summer, his attitude has been excellent on the field and his performances indicate a real return to form. Equally notable, though, has been the minimal use of Kagawa. With a lack of inventiveness currently in evidence, it seems baffling that Kagawa has barely made it onto the pitch this season.

Last year, it has to be said that Kagawa failed to shine as it was hoped he might have. Arriving with an excellent reputation and on the back of some early encouraging performances, most of us could not wait to see him settle into a United shirt. But it didn’t quite happen, and he failed to set the Premiership alight as he had done so successfully in the Bundesliga for the previous two seasons.

That his impact was intermittently impressive rather than comprehensive can be largely attributed to the fact it was his first season in a new country, in addition to a few niggling injuries. Moreover, it was also influenced by his ever-changing deployment on the pitch. He was not alone in coveting a central role and consequently was never allowed to enjoy a settled period behind the striker. Instead, he was employed in a variety of positions.

It occurred frequently enough to prompt Jurgen Klopp to say the following:

“Shinji Kagawa is one of the best players in the world and he now plays 20 minutes at Manchester United – on the left wing. My heart breaks. Really, I have tears in my eyes. Central midfield is Shinji’s best role. He’s an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw.”​

Aside from the fact Jurgen Klopp is clearly an emotional and slightly odd chap, his statement made his beliefs about Kagawa abundantly clear. Definitive they are too: as his manager for the two years when Kagawa was named Bundesliga player of the year, he’s unquestionably in a better position than most to judge the Japanese forward’s best position.

Klopp leaves little doubt he must be played ‘in the hole’. It is an opinion many share, including the player himself. It’s where he feels he can have the greatest influence on a match; deftly prompting, probing, and creating. And although he operated in his favoured #10 role on several occasions, he was more frequently dispatched to the left-hand side of midfield to accommodate others up front, notably Rooney.

Even so, there was enough fleeting glimpses of his creative brilliance to ensure expectations remain high for Kagawa. He is a different type of player to the rest of the team, shorn of power and pace, but bursting with inventiveness, clever movement, and deft passing. The problem he faces now is similar to last season: Wayne Rooney. With Moyes seemingly keen on cementing the RVP-Rooney axis at the top of his formation, at best it leaves Kagawa floundering out wide.

Despite this clearly being detrimental to Kagawa’s hopes of achieving top form, it is also the best current option for the team. Rooney’s in form, and looking fitter and leaner than he has for some time, encapsulated by excellent performances against Bayer Leverkusen and Man City. Consequently, United’s chances of success seem best served by combining their two most potent attacking forces together up front.

With Welbeck and Hernandez requiring opportunities at the sharp end too, Kagawa is likely to be utilised almost exclusively on the left. And while this is a scenario that may leave Jurgen Klopp furiously blinking back the tears, I’m convinced it can still be a workable and profitable solution for United.

I’m loathe to mention Man City at this point, but it is worthwhile. Though he was missing on Sunday, David Silva provides an excellent (light) blue-print for how Rooney and Kagawa can work. When he features, he is nominally played on the wide-left of City’s midfield but in reality his role is far less restrictive than that. Starting from the left, he is allowed to roam across the pitch, affecting the game in central areas, supporting the strikers, and finding pockets of space in between the opposition’s defensive set-up.

His slightly disappointing form of last year masks how effective this can be. Two years ago he was outstanding, and probably City’s most creative player, yet there were no cries of him being ‘wasted’ on the left.

It has to be acknowledged Kagawa and Silva are different types of players, but the way they look to play the game is very similar; relying on craft and guile rather than more fundamental assets like pace or strength, and certainly unlikely to hug the left touchline.

Silva’s success in the role is possible because he has Toure (and previously Barry too) playing alongside him, ably providing defensive cover when Silva moves infield. It’s another reason why Fellaini is so important this season. He completely failed to provide the steel United need in midfield on Sunday, but it was his first start in the league and he surely will improve. For Belgium, he demonstrates a defensive discipline and awareness that often escapes Cleverley and Anderson, meaning as Kagawa drifts, Fellaini, along with Carrick, can plug the holes in his absence. Phil Jones did a similar job away at Tottenham last year, allowing Welbeck (who was on the left in that game) the licence to roam from his flank.

Though Kagawa works hard off the ball, and will strive to get back into position if we lose possession, naturally, at times Evra will be exposed (although that is hardly a new situation considering how some of our wingers fail to track back). It will also mean that occasionally United become lop-sided, or congested in the middle. For a team so comfortable with playing an established 4-4-2, it’s a change of mindset that we need to get used to. There may be negatives, but the positives are far greater, particularly a move away from the stale, rigid lines that United played in against City.

In the final home game of last season against Swansea, the focus was understandably on matters off the field, being Sir Alex’s final home game at Old Trafford, but the game itself was also notable. Not for the score, or even the performance (though Ferdinand’s late lash into the net was a great moment), but in the role of Kagawa. Rooney was absent for the match, but Kagawa was still on the left of a standard midfield four.

As the match wore on though, it became clear Kagawa had been given greater licence to roam than in his previous impressions of a left-winger. Instead, he was everywhere, dropping deep, pushing forward, often through central areas and paved the way for how this can work in the future.

If United can incorporate Kagawa in this way, and allow him to move and impact on the game in key areas of the field, allied to the twin threat of Rooney and Van Persie, then it really will cement United as a potent and exciting attacking force. It could also make these early cries of a lack of creativity appear absurd.

There are worrying signs Moyes does not have the same faith in Kagawa as many of us do and it remains to be seen if he will eventually incorporate him into the first eleven. If he does, it also has to be hoped that he frees him from the touchline and allows him to affect the game in more crucial areas, providing United with an unpredictability and inventiveness that they currently lack.
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Decent write up on getting Kagawa into the team.
 
I am expecting to hear people telling me he isn't match fit again until Christmas, or end of season.
 
Based on his performance so far, I wouldn't be surprised if Janzuaj is our first choice left winger pretty soon.
 
The problem is, people are too quick to jump on Kagawa. He's just lacking minutes. With today's start, he's only just moved past the 100 minute mark in terms of time on pitch. He's shown some decent glimpses.
 
Mockney said:
He's hidden a bit too. Doesn't really seem to know what to do coming in from the left.
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He plays there for Japan, so the position isn't alien to him.

He hasn't been great, but it feels as though the Kagawa debate has become so frenzied that people are expecting him to be absolutely brilliant from the get-go.

I'd summarise his half as some nice touches mixed with some lax play. Certainly no where near as poor as some are suggesting.
 
Ekeke said:
He can do better than this from the position though. He just doesn't look up for it like Nani does
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He looks like someone who's a bit nervous to get it wrong. Which is understandable.

When he's let his instinct kick in he's made some lovely touches and openings. I'd just play him and give him a long run in the side.
 
With match fitness he'd be better than Young but is he going to be our Ribery/Ronaldo/Hazard player on the wing? no chance.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I am expecting to hear people telling me he isn't match fit again until Christmas, or end of season.
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The lad doesn't help himself, I said before that he is way too slow and ponderous in possession. He needs to move far, far quicker. I appreciate he's probably not in his best position but where is the dynamic, electric Dortmund player we bought?
 
Sam said:
He looks like someone who's a bit nervous to get it wrong. Which is understandable.

When he's let his instinct kick in he's made some lovely touches and openings. I'd just play him and give him a long run in the side.
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Only Antonio Valencia and Ashley Young are allowed those though. Just ask Nani
 
He'd played just over 70 minutes all season before this game. This was always going to be his performance tonight. We cannot expect anything different until he gets a solid number of games under his belt but for that to happen, Moyes should not play fecking Young as a starter every single game. He's playing out of position too.
 
Raees said:
With match fitness he'd be better than Young but is he going to be our Ribery/Ronaldo/Hazard player on the wing? no chance.
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He's not really a winger for starters, certainly not like the players you've quoted.
 
The people singling Kagawa out after this performance will officially go down in my book as the stupidest people alive.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if the team as a unit plays badly, Kagawa will be isolated out of the game. He's not, and he will never be the type of player to win us games on bad days based on pure individual skills. We have to stop playing like retards when attacking. We can't just expect our strikers to create a moment of magic to win us the game. We have to keep moving once we have the ball!

I love Hernandez, but I wanted this to be Kagawa's game, i.e. letting him play the whole game behind the striker(Rooney).

If we want Kagawa to play well, we basically just have three choices:

1. Play him behind the striker, also in the big games.
2. Play him on the left and change our entire attacking style.
3. Play him every damn game, week after week, on the left, and hope that he'll adapt. He had a few good games from the left side at the end of last season, so it's obvious that the talent is there. But if he's gonna play there, without us changing our style, then we have to play him there all the time.
 
Zen86 said:
He's not really a winger for starters, certainly not like the players you've quoted.
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Those sort of players are 'United' players, they play at the speed and with the courage we need on the wings.


Mad Winger said:
The people singling Kagawa out after this performance will officially go down in my book as the stupidest people alive.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if the team as a unit plays badly, Kagawa will be isolated out of the game. He's not, and he will never be the type of player to win us games on bad days based on pure individual skills. We have to stop playing like retards when attacking. We can't just expect our strikers to create a moment of magic to win us the game. We have to keep moving once we have the ball!

I love Hernandez, but I wanted this to be Kagawa's game, i.e. letting him play the whole game behind the striker(Rooney).

If we want Kagawa to play well, we basically just have three choices:

1. Play him behind the striker, also in the big games.
2. Play him on the left and change our entire attacking style.
3. Play him every damn game, week after week, on the left, and hope that he'll adapt. He had a few good games from the left side at the end of last season, so it's obvious that the talent is there. But if he's gonna play there, without us changing our style, then we have to play him there all the time.
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I'm in agreement that we don't as a team bring out the best in Kagawa, but at the moment he can't get into the side as a 10 because Rooney's back, thus he needs to prove himself a half decent player on the wing at least.. he's showing nothing, like absolutely nothing.. that isn't good enough.
 
He just needs a run of games, his style of play doesn't suit playing one game then missing 4.
 
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