I'm fearful Kagawa will ask to leave, maybe back to Dortmund or something. Could very well happen.
Shinji Kagawa
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
I dunno, but where I´m coming from a "tactical" substitution without a real change in the system normally means performance related, which is something I can´t follow.
Bear in mind, that I could not follow the game live. I got a recording of it from a friend (always better than highlight shows) and took a look at the game. From what I seen Kagawa looked fine. He was certainly not outstanding or anything but his movement, passing and awareness all ranged from decent to good. Taking him off for only being decent in this team performance seems really harsh.
It is also a shot at the confidence of this guy. If he is not given the chances to prove that he can adapt he will begin to doubt, which will influence his performance even further. Moyes needs to give Kagawa a perspective and soon. If this perspective will be positive (good chances to become a starter) this could turn things around, if it will be less positive (5th or 6th option for the offensive midfield), he will look for a move soon. He is too good for that or at least knows that he can do way better at a different club. A club, which is filled with officials rubbing their hands after every game Kagawa does not excell.
Regarding Kagawa in the conference said he wants him to feel he has a chance and its a role he plays in for Japan but agrees no. 10 is his best role
He didn't play well. I'm one of his biggest fans but he was mostly invisible for most of the first half and his one meaningful contribution was setting up Anderson for that header. Young would have been slaughtered for an exact same performance.
IMO Moyes just doesn't fancy kagawa type of player. Hopefully I am wrong.
Kagawa added a lot to our midfield, that much was evident when he was subbed off. Him and Rooney had some good link-up play. I was surprised to see him go off. The fact that he doesn't lose the ball helped Büttner who offered no protection whatsoever when Januzaj did.
I don't think Moyes is too keen on him, but only Nani made more key passes than Kagawa in the whole game. He wasn't the best player like Mad Winger is trying to make out but he was one of our better performers in that half.
I don't think Moyes is too keen on him, but only Nani made more key passes than Kagawa in the whole game. He wasn't the best player like Mad Winger is trying to make out but he was one of our better performers in that half.
If he continues to play a bit-part role this season, I hope for his sake he asks to leave. He's too talent to waste the early part of his career with a manager that doesn't have any faith in him.
He liked Pienaar.
Not to mention Arteta who really blossomed under him.
I'd rather Moyes go than Kagawa to be honest. If he doesn't fancy that kind of player and buys players like Fellaini, thanks but no thanks.
Well you need to show confidence in the player. Pulling someone having decent game at halftime isn't going to help the confidence.
I think it's absolutely nailed on to happen. He was just hauled off at half time for an 18 year old despite playing quite well, I don't think he's going to stick around, and I don't blame him.
I think one of the criticisms you can have of Kagawa is that he shrinks when facing a challenge, maybe he should redouble his efforts rather than let it affect him?
He needs to be authoritative in games. Too many times he drifts in games without really affecting them.
He should still be first choice on the left so hopefully he'll get into the form we all know he's capable of
I reckon if Kloop was watching today, he probably hung himself.
He seems to be a confidence player. People have been talking about sharpness and fitness etc but to me this season he seems nervous. Midweek he grew up in confidence in the second half.
That is why I didn't like Moyes taking him off at half time.
Might be the same case as Nuri Sahin who has rediscovered his form by rejoining Dortmund after being overlooked at Real. Kagawa wants to play regularly especially with the World cup looming and will surely jump at the chance to rejoin Dortmund. Moyes has probably no idea how to get the best of Kagawa, maybe he thinks Kagawa is that same Chinese player who played at Everton!
It has been five months since Moyes was appointed manager, one should expect he would have already decided on his best team let alone the value of players at the club. He should have sold Kagawa if he thought he didn't fit in with his preferred tactics. As it is the way he has been treating him is nothing short of shambolic. The lad is absolute class and only a manager not used to the high end of European football would think otherwise. What was Dave thinking deploying him in a wide role in front of an inept impostor of a left back? I really thought Moyes would utilise a three man midfield with the lad at the attacking apex. Disgusted
He may be a confidence player, and he definitely seems like a lad who takes a bit of football to get his touch back, but I don't think he will ever be as effective for us as he promises to be if we continue to play him deep on the left. He needs to be given freedom, while the wide players in our current system are required to be disciplined and track back- which is blatantly not what he likes to do- even if he was ok at it at points during today's game.
I don't think he drifted today at all he was always involved, didn't get knocked off the ball so much, and created openings, linked well with the midfield and Rooney too.
Yeah perhaps not today but he does it a lot.
The substitution would have made sense if we actually changed our shape possibly by bringing on RvP or someone, bringing on an essentially like for like substitution after Kagawa had a fairly decent first half just makes absolutely no sense. I can't imagine Kagawa will be here much longer, and if we feck around we'll lose Januzaj too.
Playing him on the left is never going to be absolutely optimal for him but he can be effective in that role, he's just not been given a run of games since he got here, he got fecked about last season under Fergie too.
Taking him off at half time for an inexperienced kid in a must-win and hugely pressurized game which was still the balance was a bizarre move.
Taking him off at half time for an inexperienced kid in a must-win and hugely pressurized game which was still the balance was a bizarre move.
Well something doesn't add up. I've read the he plays on the left for Japan and seems to do very well, so you'd assume that either he's capable of doing well out there or Japan's tactical set up is much more advanced that ours.
The level is a lot lower. That's the reason.
I thought he played well today. It's mental to suggest he made just one mistake but I thought he was influential and created some good chances, and taking him off was a bizarre decision. As it turns out Januzaj was more threatening so it wasn't a particularly poor decision for this game in particular, but it sends out a very clear message to Kagawa.
Stoke/Southampton/West Brom >>> Italy
I thought he did ok today. But there is a real lack of movement from our midfield/attacking players. Most of the time we are ball watching or just bum rush the box. Kagawa does not play this style and he needs players around him that pass and move. I just hope Moyes sticks with him and with Rooney slowly but surely finding his best form, the best is yet to come.
There is no way Ashley Young should start over him.
There is no way Ashley Young should start over him.
Have we been given an explanation as to why he got took off at half time?
Whilst he was neat and tidy, he was the main culprit for slowing our play down at times and he didn't offer any penetration at all.
Whilst he was neat and tidy, he was the main culprit for slowing our play down at times and he didn't offer any penetration at all.
I thought he did well. Was roaming all over the pitch and generally looked more unpredictable than Young (who wouldnt).
There was a point where he got the ball in around the box and had a shot albeit a poor one. In the matchday thread I suggested that we need to learn how to get Shinji in those areas more as that's where does the most damage, by either slipping a through ball or scoring.
I think that's the problem for Shinji. We've never known what to do with his kind of player. Our no.10s have always been strikers be it Cantona, Sheringham, Yorke or Rooney. For whatever reason we don't seem to accommodate a creative attacking midfielder too well.
There was a point where he got the ball in around the box and had a shot albeit a poor one. In the matchday thread I suggested that we need to learn how to get Shinji in those areas more as that's where does the most damage, by either slipping a through ball or scoring.
I think that's the problem for Shinji. We've never known what to do with his kind of player. Our no.10s have always been strikers be it Cantona, Sheringham, Yorke or Rooney. For whatever reason we don't seem to accommodate a creative attacking midfielder too well.
"I just tried to find another way through and improve what we had seen in the first half and I thought Adnan came on and did quite well,”
I disagree. Kagawa is one of the most dedicated and hard working players I have ever seen live. When I was in Dortmund for business I normally took one day off to watch the training of the club. One thing I always wondered, where the little guy took the energy from to train so hard. Kagawa already faced challenges far harder than this one and prevailed.
Put yourself in his shoes: You are an unknown (at least in the West) player joining a new team on the other side of the globe. You start off like a rocket, instantly becoming a crowd favourite and loved by the press. You play one hell of a half season and are on top of the world. You fly away to play for your national team. You get into one bad challenge and your whole world falls apart. Diagnosis: complicated leg fracture.
He was out for six months and rejoined Dortmund at the start of the 2011/2012 season. He struggled hard to regain his form. Especially his dynamic was for the most part gone. This went on for a lot of games and you could see it was getting to him, because he is not only very competive but also self critical. He openly apologized multiple times to the fans for his performances. Klopp stubbornly kept playing him and soon received criticism for it. He brushed it off and said, that he knew exactly what Kagawa can do and that he just would need game time to become the player he was before. He even took a fight with the biggest German paper BILD to redirect fire from his players to himself. There was an utmost trust by Klopp for the Japanese.
And this trust was rewarded by Kagawa. His form exploded in the Winter and he played an excellent second half of the season, which is what most people on here remember about him.
Moyes does not have the same amount of trust for him, which is something he should not been blamed for because he did not bring Kagawa to United, but maybe Kagawa needs this comfort zone to be the best he can be. The enviroment at Dortmund is often described as special by the players. Especially Sahin commented on that after he left (but before he rejoined). The officials go to great lengths to keep the climate in the club calm and relaxed. Klopp is someone who would take a bullet for his players. If he is convinced by a player he will stick with him even in bad times. United can not offer that, because they are too big for that and they are certain expectations to meet. Dortmund can always point the finger to the bigger club Bayern Munich and stay out of the media focus.
Moyes needs to show some faith in the lad and to stop using him as an excuse for how the poorer members of the squad are performing.
What game were you watching? Im beginning to wonder if people actually know how to watch football on tv.
I broadly agree although I thought we found a good use for him in the Nasri/Silva role today, drifting in off the flank, and I thought he did it really well. Couldn't understand the substitution. It made us worse not better, made it harder for us to keep the ball not easier.
Unfortunately I can't see Kagawa flourishing wide left and with Rooney occupying the number 10 role he is up against it. That said the boy has some real class about him and I really hope he finds himself a role within the team.
You make it sound like it was the force of Klopp's will that saw him regain his form. From what we've seen of Kagawa since he joined United, he seems like quite a passive character so he needs to regain some of that motivation if he wants to prove people wrong, because so far he's been far too easily knocked off his game.
We let in 2 goals and people are arguing about the offence?
- Status