I'd add Smalling to the list.
What's even more annoying they also make our wingers inept. Understandable why Moyes was desperate to sign a Left-back if Evra is going to be rested.
Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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I'd add Smalling to the list.
What's even more annoying they also make our wingers inept. Understandable why Moyes was desperate to sign a Left-back if Evra is going to be rested.
Quite
Yeah, we were shit. I think blaming the team selection is missing the point though.
Worth noting that Jones was getting rave reviews when he played a few games at fullback, this time last season. Was putting in some brilliant crosses.
I think Moyes made the change because he thought United were attacking too narrow. Playing both Kagawa and Nani, they both have a tendency to drift towards the centre at the same time, making it easier for West Brom to defend against it.
I think it was just a tactical switch to just widen the pitch and stretch play and no slight on Kagawa.
Surely if he wanted more width Valencia would have made more sense rather than Januzaj, who likes to come inside himself?
Januzaj can do both.
That's disgusting.
I think Moyes doesn't know what to do with a player of Kagawa's caliber. Much like Fergie back in 2004 when we had Veron. A continental player whose style of play didn't fit into their system.
Yesterday he created one of the clearest chances for use to score, playing the ball perfectly into the box for a header that Anderson should have finished. That would have been a goal from open play, something we all the sudden seem to lack.
He did nothing to justify being subbed after a half when WBA really didn't expose him as a weakness in the side. For me there is something crucial to having a neat and tidy player in the side, calm on the ball with an eye for a pass in the final third. Without it we simply spread wide and attack the end line, something most teams who put 10 behind the ball can defend easily with a lead.
He did nothing to justify being subbed after a half when WBA really didn't expose him as a weakness in the side. For me there is something crucial to having a neat and tidy player in the side, calm on the ball with an eye for a pass in the final third. Without it we simply spread wide and attack the end line, something most teams who put 10 behind the ball can defend easily with a lead.
Obviously Moyes thought we had a better chance of scoring without him. As someone said, we played narrow and needed to stretch them across the pitch to create openings. Kagawa drifts inside and made it easy for them to park the bus.
If he's being told to give width, then his displays are worrying and show that he's not great tactically and not a team player. At least Januzaj carried out his instructions.
Switching to 4-3-3 sometimes wouldn't just be to accommodate Kagawa, it would actually give our midfield a chance of controlling games, which I haven't seen it do in a while. It's almost putting ourselves at an immediate disadvantage by playing a midfield two, which we do, even against opposition with better midfields than ours (like City for example).
Apart from Carrick, I don't think any of our other CMs are best suited to a midfield two.
The only reason I can think of for us not using three in midfield is that we like to play Rooney behind Robin and unless he was the third midfielder he'd have to be shifted wide - Moyes already said he wouldn't play Rooney in midfield and Rooney is staying higher up the pitch more often.
I think we would benefit from playing in a more compact, less spread out formation, and I think our midfield would be less likely to be overrun. Too often Carrick is doing the job of two midfielders especially defensively which is impossible because he can't be everywhere.
Apart from Carrick, I don't think any of our other CMs are best suited to a midfield two.
The only reason I can think of for us not using three in midfield is that we like to play Rooney behind Robin and unless he was the third midfielder he'd have to be shifted wide - Moyes already said he wouldn't play Rooney in midfield and Rooney is staying higher up the pitch more often.
I think we would benefit from playing in a more compact, less spread out formation, and I think our midfield would be less likely to be overrun. Too often Carrick is doing the job of two midfielders especially defensively which is impossible because he can't be everywhere.
I'll take nothing away from Januzaj's performance but like Kagawa's it could have gone either way very easily. For me the movement going forward in the first half had more fluidity and the link up and transitional play from midfield to final third seemed better with Kagawa drifting in.
How is someone who is always looking to set up a goal not a team player? Simply by going in search of the ball?
I agree if he was told to stay wide and didn't then he isn't following his orders BUT he isn't the reason we lost the game, tactically our back four holds that blame.
For me I never liked the way Everton played football until after Moyes left and currently the rigidity of his football has us lacking in goals.
Him coming off was truly baffling. Was one of our best players in the first half probably, and looked good on the ball making things happen. I think moyes just doesn't like him, which is a shame. I hope we don't lose Kagawa because of moyes, because given a choice between the two, I'd take Kagawa to be honest.
It's good to hve januzaj chances, but yesterday at half wasn't the time for that, especially not for Kagawa when he was pretty good.
It's good to hve januzaj chances, but yesterday at half wasn't the time for that, especially not for Kagawa when he was pretty good.
I'm just speculating based on what Moyes has said in reflection and what I saw.
If he is being told to give us width and allow our central players to find the openings then he should do that at least some of the time. I could barely work out what he'd been asked to do at times. He was rarely there to help Buttner in attack or defence. They had an easy out-ball from defence every time because their right full back was always in acres of space.
As I've said, this would just about be forgivable if he was tearing them apart in attack, but he simply wasn't. He provided zero penetration and they just allowed him to pass it about in front of them. A nervous looking 18 year old kid came on, provided width, attempted some penetrating through balls, took players on and had a couple of efforts. Is Kagawa not capable of this?
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Kagawa probably didn't do what he was told to do. I'm also guessing that that is why Moyes now seems to be accepting that he's probably only going to be of any use through the middle, which doesn't bode well for Shinji.
the bench...
Foster, Park, Gibson, Martin, Eckersley, Macheda, Welbeck
if you are loosing 2-1 by min 65, and Nani has been playing like shit, who you send in to try and turnaround the game, with THIS bench?
Welbeck... 2013 and his composure still a mystery. Far from being a goalscorer back then right?
or Macheda? typical italian striker, absolutely terrible technical abilities, but eye for the goal?
Absolutely total different situation as vs WBA anyways... and i repeat, the blame is on Moyes, not Januzaj. He clearly fecked up with that sub not because of Januzaj, but because we had bigger issues at the moment. Kagawa was playing good while 2 or 3 players where being rubbish at the same time.
What's almost just as surprising is that Moyes made a substitute in the first place. I think the first half was really good. The only thing it missed, was goals. We had 4-5(?) clear cut chances, all created from open play. And not only that; we actually had variety and unpredictability! It was thoroughly enjoyable to watch, in my opinion. We had 2 great counter-attacks, 3-4 brilliant crosses, slow build-up plays, and even a few direct attacks down the center.
Why would Moyes want to change this? Because we let WBA create 2-3 decent chances? Because we didn't dominate possession in midfield as much as we usually do on Old Trafford? Screw that! We actually played entertaining and good football, with a littler higher risk than usual. That's exactly what I want to see more of! And I know more people would have agreed with me, had we scored a goal(which we really should have done, given the chances we created).
I don't want us to be solid, but create few chances. It's a boring compromise, and I don't think it will win us any titles. And that is why I hope that Moyes will play the Nani/Rooney/Kagawa combination more. Not just because it's pleasing to the eye, but also because I genuinely think it will win us more games and titles in the long run.
Why would Moyes want to change this? Because we let WBA create 2-3 decent chances? Because we didn't dominate possession in midfield as much as we usually do on Old Trafford? Screw that! We actually played entertaining and good football, with a littler higher risk than usual. That's exactly what I want to see more of! And I know more people would have agreed with me, had we scored a goal(which we really should have done, given the chances we created).
I don't want us to be solid, but create few chances. It's a boring compromise, and I don't think it will win us any titles. And that is why I hope that Moyes will play the Nani/Rooney/Kagawa combination more. Not just because it's pleasing to the eye, but also because I genuinely think it will win us more games and titles in the long run.
Yep, it was an atrocious decision to sub him at half time, he was decent in the first half anyway, we ended up losing, and Moyes has probably disillusioned Kagawa.
All in all, big blunder by Moyes.
All in all, big blunder by Moyes.
Play that front 4, but have Rooney dropping into midfield when we don't have the ball, and that's probably our best lineup, unless Valencia ever regains his mad form of 2 years ago.
Why does everything have to be fixed, why not have Kagawa/Rooney/Nani interchanging, all three can play across the field, this would add an extra dimension onto our game.
Isn't that what they were doing yesterday?
Why are you in every thread I enter giving out tackling stats?
Because tackles go unnoticed a lot, especially when its not a big, powerful bloke doing it
Who would have thought Kagawa would have made as many tackles as any of our players against West Brom when he was only on the pitch 45 mins?D
Didn't look like it.
Didn't look like it.
I have faith in Kagawa
I think I'd just like to see him making runs into the box a bit more. I know its not the same doing that from on the left as it is supporting a striker, but Welbeck has done it this season to get on the scoresheet. I think Kagawa should be able to do it too.
In the buildup he's usually neat and tidy, then get in the box to support Rooney and RVP/Hernandez
In the buildup he's usually neat and tidy, then get in the box to support Rooney and RVP/Hernandez
That's exactly what happened in the liverpool game.
Didn't watch the WBA debacle so have no idea if we set up any differently. Can't think why we would, mind you.
The issue is his performances are not so poor that it warrants him being dropped from game to game, and the performances of those who play in place of him are far worse than what Kagawa usually delivers. Also it's not an unfamiliar role.
If we get to the end of his 2nd year here and he still hasn't been afforded the luxury of having a run of consecutive games it's just unforgivable really, to inevitably lose a player of his talent and class without an effort to get him settled in the team and playing at his best will just be painful.
It was pretty similar but the full backs were completely ineffective vs WBA, which made a pretty big difference.
I personally think that from what we've seen in the last couple of matches, Nani and Kagawa or Welbeck are the obvious choices on the wings. Welbeck because he was doing well there before his injury. In the last couple of matches our wingers have looked like they have more to offer, played better football and a supposed lack of tracking back hasn't been seen or effected us. The reason we lost to WBA was certainly not because of that
Taking Shinji off at HT is, to me, his worst decision during a game yet.
Actually it's equal to Buttner starting over Evra
Actually it's equal to Buttner starting over Evra
Let's hope it doesn't affect his confidence/morale too much.
It won't I'm sure.
You would think so, but then these would be the same people who thought signing Buttner and using the likes of Jones and Smalling as fullbacks was a good idea in the first place. If anything they'd have been who influenced Moyes into thinking he could use them there.
This is the thing that worries me. We did a lot of stupid shit with our line ups under Fergie which were kind of masked over by his strengths as a manager in other ways. There's no way Moyes can get away with carrying on doing the stuff Ferguson was doing wrong. He has to manage by his own ideals, which is the part that may take time as he gets to know the squad.
The less encouraging thing is that he keeps picking Rio, because that suggests to me he is letting past regimes influence him more than what's actually happening on the pitch.
The thing is I wasn't happy with how we played the last two seasons with players trying to get through games doing as little as possible and turning our games into drab, joyless affairs that came across more like watching a bunch of shift workers in a factory than a team of footballers at times. You would think losing to City how we did the year before last would fire them up, it didn't. You would think a new manager and doubts cast over the ability of the players would fire them up...it doesn't seem to have. Players also continuing to be picked despite week after week playing well within themselves. I think Moyes has inherited a stale squad and could do worse than sticking with the younger players over the experienced ones.
I would take a season of faultering if we actually played with a bit of life again. It would give the team a chance to grow into something rather than wilt as it has been doing for a while now.
Can we go back to playing like how we did in that run of games where we basically outscored everyone despite conceding a feckload of goals. I thought we were on to something special before we ended that experiment.
Watching the first few games this season has been depressing. I understand that under SAF we played with caution away from home in the Champions League, but in the Premier League even poor performances included moments of exciting, if desperate, attacking.
Under Moyes, there is a joyless method of play that I wouldn't wholly blame the players for.
I agree with giving a new manager a chance to develop his own style, it's just I don't like Moyes' style!
I enjoyed that period. The comebacks were brilliant. We've tried to launch comebacks this season but they haven't worked
There has been a lot of that especially in the last 3 seasons. Maybe results masked this.
Apart from that brief spell 2 seasons ago, we've been joyless in attack since we've gotten schooled by Barcelona in Rome.
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